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The most controversial debate is up here again... Goku vs. Supes.

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TheMonsterOfTheAbyss said:
By the way, do SSJ forms not boost speed? I do not see that being discussed but iirc speed boost is still valid under-speed equal.
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Oh shit.
 
1 KiloFoe is Cell. SSJ2 CG Gohan is accepted as 2x him. SSJ3 Goku is far above Gohan so he's accepted as 4 KiloFoe.

And this is where the crazy stuff begins.

SSJ Goku in the BoG arc of Chou became as strong as Kid Buu. He trained a lot with Whis 1 year after that and Not forget the training for the U6 arc. SSJ Goku at the very least is above his Buu arc SSJ3.

Now, Base Black is said to surpass beginning of Black arc SSJ3 Goku. Even then, SSJ2 Vegeta beat the s*** out of his SSJ Form. The Goku used in this match up is comparable to that Vegeta.

SSJ3 Goku >>> SSJ2 Goku >>> SSJ Black > (40x) Base Black (initial) = Base Goku (halfway through Black arc) >>> SSJ3 Goku (U6 arc) = FPSSJ2 Future Trunks >>> SSJ Goku (u6 arc) >>> SSJ Goku (BoG) = SSJ3 Goku (Buu arc) = 4 KiloFoe > Cell = 1 KiloFoe.

This is using the accepted SSJ multipliers. SSJ is 40x, SSJ2 and 3 are unquantifiable but at the VERY LEAST 2x their previous forms.

Let's be conservative.

SSJ3 Goku (Buu)/SSJ Goku (BoG) = 4 KiloFoe.

SSJ Goku (U6 arc) = 6 KILOFOE. with SSJ3= 24 KiloFoe.

Initial Base Black and Base Goku halfway through Black arc would be at the least 24 KiloFoe. SSJ Goku would be almost 1 MegaFoe.

There's literally no way for Goku to not be in the thousand KiloFoe range.
 
TheMonsterOfTheAbyss said:
By the way, do SSJ forms not boost speed? I do not see that being discussed but iirc speed boost is still valid under-speed equal.
Click to expand...
I though speed boost weren't valid under speed equal, did i miss a CRT ? or was i just wrong for a long time ?
 
You're not allowed to Speed Boost under Speed Equalized if you're naturally slower in normal circumstances. Which is stupid, but that's the rules.
 
I don't know for sure, that is why I did not make it a certain statement but last time I checked I saw a few threads using the argument. Apologies if I caused confusion.
 
Oblivion Of The Endless said:
The Wright Way said:
You're not allowed to Speed Boost under Speed Equalized if you're naturally slower in normal circumstances. Which is stupid, but that's the rules.
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Isnt Superman way faster?
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Yes. Even if Wonder Woman's Shattered God feat is considered an outlier he's still ridiculously above Goku in raw speed. Since he's above Green Lanterns who can travel 87 Quadrillion times FTL
 
Super Saiyan God Julian said:
Friendly reminder that you all need to stay as civilized as possible, or these debates risk being banned completely once more.
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No one said anything though.
 
Boosting speed is a no no because he'll speed blitz someone who would be way faster than him if speed were unequalized.
 
Roachman40 said:
Superman seems to have the intelligence edge, he can possibly react faster than Goku(?), as he can hear people from Satur and he is able to scan the molecular structure of someone's body.
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Speed equalized include reaction as far as i know, otherwise you'd have people fighting at speed equalized but one has MFTL reaction time and the other doesn't.

Goku can sense people who are in other dimensions with different flow of time, that's at least as impressive has scanning someone's molecule IMO, neither are really applicable here.
 
Speed Equal

I think his point was that his Enhanced Senses would let him see the attacks from farther away and therefore let him react quicker.
 
" Wonder Woman having more experience than Goku is hightly debatable and Superman keep with her while having a massive raw stat advantage, that's not really applicable here."

No. Diana severely outskills Goku. She does what Goku does, train all day and all night, but for hundreds of times longer given she's in her thousands, and she has a whole race to train with as opposed to about a dozen people. Furthermore, Supes doesn't have the stat advantage. He's only a bit stronger than her physically and it's outright stated that Diana has higher combat speed than him.
 
If heat vision and ice breath weren't a factor. Goku would come out on top 100% of the time. The question is can Superman land a HV or IB with how much better of fighting tactician goku is.
 
The real cal howard said:
" Wonder Woman having more experience than Goku is hightly debatable and Superman keep with her while having a massive raw stat advantage, that's not really applicable here."
No. Diana severely outskills Goku. She does what Goku does, train all day and all night, but for hundreds of times longer given she's in her thousands, and she has a whole race to train with as opposed to about a dozen people. Furthermore, Supes doesn't have the stat advantage. He's only a bit stronger than her physically and it's outright stated that Diana has higher combat speed than him.
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Once again, arguable.

She's done that for thousands of year while tons of people Goku left in the dust did it for millions, like King Kai.

Vegeta was trained by his whole race too, it didn't help against Goku and a race isn't better at martial art than a bunch of martial artist hermit by default, King Kai was litteraly said to be so good that one year of training with him is the same as a thousand year of normal training IIRC.

Superman has a huge stat advantage on Wonder Woman and the combat speed statement was done once by an author who stated she could be wrong, that's hardly hard facts.
 
DTG499 said:
If heat vision and ice breath weren't a factor. Goku would come out on top 100% of the time. The question is can Superman land a HV or IB with how much better of fighting tactician goku is.
Click to expand...
This pretty much. If Supes can land HV or IB before Goku incaps with sheer AP advantage he wins.
 
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