The most controversial debate is up here again... Goku vs. Supes.

[DTG499]

And, Supes can still fly around and eventually blast Goku to death

Speed is equal goku would keep the pressure on him. Nor would he let supes run away into space.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

IT is probably far more in character than Superman flying off and Goku letting him go so he can snipe for the rest of the match.

And, Supes can still fly around and eventually blast Goku to death

And Goku can both fly around and teleport while blasting Superman to a much greater effect.

AP just got debunked right now.

 

[Omegas03]

@blue

Base Goku can be 8 KiloFoe in the worst downplay, SSJ3 will still put him at over 1200 KiloFoe.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

He wont transform into SSJ3 right off the bat, so he gets oneshot'd at the first punch he receives from supes

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

I'm suprised this is going so well. Good job guys.

 

[Dragomer]

IT is probably far more in character than Superman flying off and Goku letting him go so he can snipe for the rest of the match.

And, Supes can still fly around and eventually blast Goku to death

And Goku can both fly around and teleport while blasting Superman to a much greater effect.

AP just got debunked right now.

It didn't, at all, the scailing is clear and use wiki approved numbers, you can't say we don't use those multiplier since it's outright false.

 

[NormalPerson87]

Sorry to be a spoilsport, but Supes has 10 votes. It's already been grace.

Pretty sure the votes based on Superman having AOE / range advantage and AP advantage can't be counted since the scailing chain that was later presented give Goku the AP advantage and the range thing is goes against their profile (planetary vs universal).
After i don't really remember the rules on that, could be mistaking it with another site's rule.

 

[MYHERO]

^The balls on this man

 

[LordUrien935]

Yes, I've been wondering that as well. If Superman has a massive AP advantage at the beginning, why can't he easily defeat Goku before he has a chance to power up?

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Also, 1200 KFOE is only a 2X advantage, not enought to oneshot

 

[Omegas03]

@Oblivion

Goku can sense Ki, he'll instantly transform if the opponent is too strong.

 

[Dragomer]

He wont transform into SSJ3 right off the bat, so he gets oneshot'd at the first punch he receives from supes

Goku can sense energy, he'd know how much stronger Superman is compared to his base and immediatly jump to the appropriate form.

 

[PhantomØ4]

Goku gonna loose cuz votes anyways I'm just out here because some arguments sound like they were not thought through twice.

 

[Omegas03]

And no, AP hasn't been debunked.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

@Oblivion
Goku can sense Ki, he'll instantly transform if the opponent is too strong.

Yeah, but not straight to SSJ3, maybe SSJ2 tho

 

[DTG499]

To think that goku would stay 1 KiloFoe from beginning to end in the DBS manga is absolutely absurd.

 

[Dragomer]

Sorry to be a spoilsport, but Supes has 10 votes. It's already been grace.

Pretty sure the votes based on Superman having AOE / range advantage and AP advantage can't be counted since the scailing chain that was later presented give Goku the AP advantage and the range thing is goes against their profile (planetary vs universal).
After i don't really remember the rules on that, could be mistaking it with another site's rule.

Pretty sure i saw multiple threads were the votes were just reset because the main argument for them was debunked or against the wiki rules / character page, like the range argument here is clearly against what is said on the characters's page.

Once again, could be wrong, I'm mostly just here because the argument didn't make sense for me anyway.

 

[Omegas03]

Be it SSJ or 2, he ain't getting one shotted. Even SSJ/2 can have an AP advantage if we don't downplay that much.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Be it SSJ or 2, he ain't getting one shotted. Even SSJ/2 can have an AP advantage if we don't downplay that much.

Make up your goddamn minds

 

[PhantomØ4]

Pretty sure i saw multiple threads were the votes were just reset because the main argument for them was debunked or against the wiki rules / character page, like the range argument here is clearly against what is said on the characters's page.

Once again, could be wrong.

Yeah, that has happened.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Oh yeah, votes were reset for sides in Yang VS Inasa and Rick VS Thanos,

We are not doing it here though

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

You people can't still act that 600 is an unreachable number. Goku is unquantifiably above 4 KiloFoe in BASE. SSJ multipliers get him to over 600. DB is known for the abuse of scaling chains and transformation multipliers. Base Goku > 4KiloFoe. SSJ would be >>>160 KiloFoe as SSJ is at least 40x Base.

First off, not four Kilofoe. ONE kilofoe. Secondly, unless he absorbed God Ki onto base in this form, I fail to recall a single instance where his base form was said to be > Cell, unless the RoF saga played out the same, in which his base is just > SPC, as it scales to fodderizing a SPC level Gohan. Finally, yes, zero scaling, I don't care how large, will overcome a 600x difference w/o wank.

But beyond that, other than teleportation and sensing, what does Goku really have? Combat experience, Supes doesn't like that and regularly keeps up with Diana, who eclipses Goku in experience. Raw intelligence, Supes creams there, and actually employs strategy, something Goku has employed once since DB Classic (which funnily enough would be handy here as the instance was abusing Frieza's lack of ki sensing). Most other things, Supes has with Goku, but then former has more.

 

[PhantomØ4]

Oh, by the way, the 4km distance is probably what prevents base Goku from getting one-shot before power-up.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Oh, by the way, the 4km distance is probably what prevents base Goku from getting one-shot before power-up.

They are like, MFTL tho

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

For a guy who is casually at Trillions of FTL he could move 4KM in a nano second so Goku wouldn't go to SSJ3 in that short amount of time

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Why exactly are we downplaying Goku and ignoring the scaling chain again? Nothing was "debunked".

 

[PhantomØ4]

Speed is equal, no? I'd assume a MFTL character would transform faster than another MFTL character can cross the 4km distance.

 

[LordUrien935]

Oh, by the way, the 4km distance is probably what prevents base Goku from getting one-shot before power-up.

Speed being equalized doesn't prevent Superman from instantly closing a mere 4 KM gap.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Speed is equal, no? I'd assume a MFTL character would transform faster than another MFTL character can cross the 4km distance.

He wouldn't immediately jump to SSJ3 at the start

 

[LordUrien935]

Also yeah, Superman routinely defeats people with more experience than him, so Goku's combat skills aren't really relevant.

 

[PhantomØ4]

Speed is equal, no? I'd assume a MFTL character would transform faster than another MFTL character can cross the 4km distance.

He wouldn't immediately jump to SSJ3 at the start

When did I say SSJ3? SSJ2 or SSJ would be more than in character if he can sense the giant gap in power.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Doesn't Superman's Heat Vision have Planetary range anyhow?

 

[Dragomer]

You people can't still act that 600 is an unreachable number. Goku is unquantifiably above 4 KiloFoe in BASE. SSJ multipliers get him to over 600. DB is known for the abuse of scaling chains and transformation multipliers. Base Goku > 4KiloFoe. SSJ would be >>>160 KiloFoe as SSJ is at least 40x Base.

First off, not four Kilofoe. ONE kilofoe. Secondly, unless he absorbed God Ki onto base in this form, I fail to recall a single instance where his base form was said to be > Cell, unless the RoF saga played out the same, in which his base is just > SPC, as it scales to fodderizing a SPC level Gohan. Finally, yes, zero scaling, I don't care how large, will overcome a 600x difference w/o wank.

But beyond that, other than teleportation and sensing, what does Goku really have? Combat experience, Supes doesn't like that and regularly keeps up with Diana, who eclipses Goku in experience. Raw intelligence, Supes creams there, and actually employs strategy, something Goku has employed once since DB Classic (which funnily enough would be handy here as the instance was abusing Frieza's lack of ki sensing). Most other things, Supes has with Goku, but then former has more.

Superman used strategy a dozen time out of a thousands appareance, that's not better than Goku and Superman's inteligence is inteligence in the sense of processing information fast, nothing else.

Scailing was litteraly used to overcome 10K x gaps before on this very wiki.

Wonder Woman having more experience than Goku is hightly debatable and Superman keep with her while having a massive raw stat advantage, that's not really applicable here.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

First off, not four Kilofoe. ONE kilofoe. Secondly, unless he absorbed God Ki onto base in this form, I fail to recall a single instance where his base form was said to be > Cell, unless the RoF saga played out the same, in which his base is just > SPC, as it scales to fodderizing a SPC level Gohan. Finally, yes, zero scaling, I don't care how large, will overcome a 600x difference w/o wank.

But beyond that, other than teleportation and sensing, what does Goku really have? Combat experience, Supes doesn't like that and regularly keeps up with Diana, who eclipses Goku in experience. Raw intelligence, Supes creams there, and actually employs strategy, something Goku has employed once since DB Classic (which funnily enough would be handy here as the instance was abusing Frieza's lack of ki sensing). Most other things, Supes has with Goku, but then former has more.

His base is stronger than his SS3 in beginning of black arc. You can't just ignore the scaling because you don't like it lol.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Speed is equal, no? I'd assume a MFTL character would transform faster than another MFTL character can cross the 4km distance.

He wouldn't immediately jump to SSJ3 at the start

When did I say SSJ3? SSJ2 or SSJ would be more than in character if he can sense the giant gap in power.

That's the only form that even gets a halfway decent advantage

 

[PhantomØ4]

Doesn't Superman's Heat Vision have Planetary range anyhow?

Literally bringing up one of the first points already discussed.

 

[Dragomer]

Doesn't Superman's Heat Vision have Planetary range anyhow?

Range doesn't make an attack instantly cover an area, especialy when Goku can go SSJ3 instantly from his POV at that point, also Goku has a massive range advantage.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

First off, not four Kilofoe. ONE kilofoe. Secondly, unless he absorbed God Ki onto base in this form, I fail to recall a single instance where his base form was said to be > Cell, unless the RoF saga played out the same, in which his base is just > SPC, as it scales to fodderizing a SPC level Gohan. Finally, yes, zero scaling, I don't care how large, will overcome a 600x difference w/o wank.

But beyond that, other than teleportation and sensing, what does Goku really have? Combat experience, Supes doesn't like that and regularly keeps up with Diana, who eclipses Goku in experience. Raw intelligence, Supes creams there, and actually employs strategy, something Goku has employed once since DB Classic (which funnily enough would be handy here as the instance was abusing Frieza's lack of ki sensing). Most other things, Supes has with Goku, but then former has more.

His base is stronger than his SS3 in beginning of black arc. You can't just ignore the scaling because you don't like it lol.

Right, what's up with that man?

 

[PhantomØ4]

By the way, do SSJ forms not boost speed? I do not see that being discussed but iirc speed boost is still valid under-speed equal.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Yes, they do.