The most controversial debate continues... Son Goku vs Superman (7-20-16).

[The_real_cal_howard]

Eh, not even I can deny that one. But it's still inconsistent, as he was surprised during his sparing matches with Krillin and Skinny Buu. Ain't denying it, but it's not exactly some Ikki level shtuff (I hate that I used that comparison).

 

[AwkguyDB]

Eh, not even I can deny that one. But it's still inconsistent, as he was surprised during his sparing matches with Krillin and Skinny Buu.

To be fair Goku was a little more serious against Hit. With Buu and Krillin he was very lax.

 

[Omegas03]

Fair point, but this is a way more serious fight tbh.

As for the Warp Kamehameha point, Goku would IT ic. But the Warp Kamehameha thing seems iffy.

 

[AwkguyDB]

I mean he did just get finish watching Vegeta get the JJBA treatment XD

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Even without IT Kamehameha, Goku still teleports behind Supes and hits him

 

[DTG499]

Eh, not even I can deny that one. But it's still inconsistent, as he was surprised during his sparing matches with Krillin and Skinny Buu. Ain't denying it, but it's not exactly some Ikki level shtuff (I hate that I used that comparison).

That only happened in the anime this is manga goku. Manga goku is a lot less lax than the anime counter part too. They have slightly different characters too, Chou is more likely to go in for the kill.

 

[Necromercer]

well, Goku FRA

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

19-9-5

 

[Omegas03]

Blue ain't you voting for Supes ƒæÇ?

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Yes.

I'm keeping the votes

 

[AwkguyDB]

Goku takes this if he knows off the bat that he needs to finish Supes quickly via SSJ3 AP advantage and Warp Kamehameha. But if Goku treats Superman like a boyscout, honestly the more likely IC case, Goku will get some HV up his butt.


I vote Incon

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Goku would sense Supes's ki and will power up accordingly, so he won't be fooled and treat Supes like a boyscout

 

[NormalPerson87]

Goku would sense Supes's ki and will power up accordingly, so he won't be fooled and treat Supes like a boyscout

Well, one of Goku's weaknesses is that he tends to let his opponents go full power for a good fight, so Goku could make that mistake.

Another is that he often let's his guard down, so Supes can hit him with HV, but then again, these 2 scenarios are very 50/50.

 

[AwkguyDB]

Goku would sense Supes's ki and will power up accordingly, so he won't be fooled and treat Supes like a boyscout

Well, one of Goku's weaknesses is that he tends to let his opponents go full power for a good fight, so Goku could make that mistake.
Another is that he often let's his guard down, so Supes can hit him with HV, but then again, these 2 scenarios are very 50/50.

^This

Due to Goku's nature this is as even as this fight can posssibly be. Goku COULD win against Supes here but that darn Saiyan nature is gonna get the best of him. Goku not only wants a fight but he wants a good fair fight and is 100% down to let Kal get any of his many abilities off. When Supes goes for HV Goku may or may not be ready to dodge the attack. Goku goes SSJ3 at any point and he might just knock Supes cold but where's the fun in that XD.

 

[Omegas03]

that's exactly why I vote inco

Ah nvm I am the OP.

 

[DTG499]

Chou goku is slightly different from his anime counter part. He is more likely to go in for the kill.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

^THIS.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I could see this version of Goku eventually going to Hakai, it doing jack-all due to resistances, and Supes capitalizing on the moment of weakness.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Goku doesn't Hakai in character. Like at all

 

[DTG499]

Only blue can use hakia and god forms are restricted

 

[CryoTheMayo]

What scaling is being used here? It was brought up in the previous thread that Goku should actually be 3-B in all forms after the Black arc, due to his Super Saiyan scaling to Pre-Black Super Saiyan Blue.

Did someone come up with a valid scaling chain for pre-Black Goku, or was this just neglected after I went offline?

 

[Omegas03]

This is Goku halfway through the Black arc so before he and Vegeta got beat up by SSR Black

The accepted scaling is as:

SSJ2 Vegeta and Goku>>>SSJ Black>>>>Base Black>>>SSJ3 Goku (beginning of Black arc)>>>>>>>>SSJ3 Goku (Buu arc)>>>Cell=1 KiloFoe.

The Base Goku here scales to Initial Base Black. Base Goku scales to at the very least 16 KiloFoe but it can be far higher.

 

[LordUrien935]

Currently 36 votes for this match. Is this a record?

 

[CryoTheMayo]

SS2 Buu Saga Goku surpasses SS2 Teen Gohan, so he should be over 2 KiloFoe. SS3 Goku is at least 2x that, so Buu SS3 Goku is at least 4 KiloFoe.

Goku, at the start of the manga, implies he can handle Kid Buu in just SS1, and SS2 should be around 3-4x Super Saiyan, so start of Chou goes:

• Super Saiyan = 4 KiloFoe

• Super Saiyan 2 = 16 KiloFoe (maybe)

• Super Saiyan 3 = at least 32 KiloFoe

He should have grown at least 2x stronger by training under Whis, putting SS3 at 64 KiloFoe and then another 2x stronger by training with Vegeta for three years, putting SS3 at 128 KiloFoe.

I assume Base Black scaling above SS3 Goku is based on SS2 Trunks, who matches SS3, being unable to defeat him? That would put Base Black at something like 200+ KiloFoe, and Super Saiyan Black at 8,000+ KiloFoe.

if SS2 Vegeta and Goku are much stronger than SS Black, that puts SS Goku over 8,000 KiloFoe, SS2 at over 32,000 KiloFoe and SS3 at over 64,000 KiloFoe.

I didn't use the SS2 Trunks vs Base Black scaling in the previous thread, because it seemed inconsistent as hell but if that's what we are going based on, SS Goku should be like 12x Superman.

 

[Dragomer]

Currently 36 votes for this match. Is this a record?

I'v seen more.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Honestly, I assume Trunks just grew that strong by Zenkai boosting after getting a Senzu and proper rest for the first time since Black appeared but I forget if that happens in the manga.

 

[Omegas03]

Depends on the interpretations as I said, Goku could go from evenly match Supes with SSJ to one shot the crap out of him with SSJ as well.

Also, SSJ2 is accepted as 2x SSJ here at the very least so let's just go for that approach.

 

[Omegas03]

Anyways @Cyro are you voting? ƒæÇ

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Depends on the interpretations as I said, Goku could go from evenly match Supes with SSJ to one shot the crap out of him with SSJ as well.
Also, SSJ2 is accepted as 2x SSJ here at the very least so let's just go for that approach.

Yeesh, Black arc scaling is ridiculous regardless of anime or manga versions. I feel like Toriyama, Toyotaro and Toei should have chilled out here.

 

[Dragomer]

Not as crazy as namek IMO.

 

[NormalPerson87]

@CryoTheMayo

Why is there a 200 to 8,000 jump there for? Wouldn't the multiplier be x4? Wouldn't that be 800 instead of 8,000?

 

[Omegas03]

Yeesh, Black arc scaling is ridiculous regardless of anime or manga versions. I feel like Toriyama, Toyotaro and Toei should have chilled out here.

Black arc isn't that ridiculous in scaling in the Anime. Only Trunks asspull was ridiculous tbh, the ToP is where the things began to go crazy

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Not as crazy as namek IMO.

Tbqh Namek is tame compared to Super. The biggest boost there was Goku growing 33x stronger after near-death.

Blue is like, thousands of times stronger than Super Saiyan 1 at a minimum, and both Goku and Vegeta reached Blue-level in just SS1 in the span of a single arc.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

@CryoTheMayo
Why is there a 200 to 8,000 jump there for? Wouldn't the multiplier be x4? Wouldn't that be 800 instead of 8,000?

Base Black would be 200+ KiloFoe for scaling above SS2 Trunks, who matches SS3 Goku at 128 KiloFoes based on my scaling.

Super Saiyan is accepted as at least 40x Base, so at least 40 x 200 = at least 8,000x KiloFoe.

 

[NormalPerson87]

@CryoTheMayo
Why is there a 200 to 8,000 jump there for? Wouldn't the multiplier be x4? Wouldn't that be 800 instead of 8,000?

Base Black would be 200+ KiloFoe for scaling above SS2 Trunks, who matches SS3 Goku at 128 KiloFoes based on my scaling.
Super Saiyan is accepted as at least 40x Base, so at least 40 x 200 = at least 8,000x KiloFoe.

Is this the scaling we're accepting? Because before, SSJ Goku was 640 KiloFOE I believe.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Black arc isn't that ridiculous in scaling in the Anime. Only Trunks asspull was ridiculous tbh, the ToP is where the things began to go crazy

Depends on who you ask.

Vegeta grew at least 50x stronger, seeing as we treat Base Black as using SSG power, and SS Rose as 40-50x that.

Goku rage-boosted and smashed around Black easily, meaning he grew at least 50x stronger during that burst, at minimum.

Then there is stuff like SSB Vegeta and SS Rage struggling to overpower Merged Zamasu, when SSB Goku alone managed to overpower Zamasu's blast (albeit with broken arms) when Zamasu should be dozens of times stronger than before, at minimum.

Trunks went from struggling against Zamasu, to taking on SS Rose Black and Zamasu 1v2 with SS Rage, then would have killed Merged Zamasu if not for immortality.

There are a lot of strange powerscaling moments in the anime's Black Arc, IMO.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Is this the scaling we're accepting? Because before, SSJ Goku was 640 KiloFOE I believe.

It seems Omega is low-balling Base Goku to 16 KiloFoe, making SS Goku 640 KiloFoe. So we will just use that scaling.

Accepted scaling for fight seems to be:

• Base Goku = 16 KiloFoe

• SS Goku = 640 KiloFoe

• SS2 Goku = at least 1,280 KiloFoe

• SS3 Goku = at least 2,560 KiloFoe

 

[NormalPerson87]

24 x 50 is like, 1200 KiloFoe compared to Supes >600.
But it is actually 24 x 40 as that is the accepted SSJ multiplier.

Yeah, 24x40 is the accepted SSJ multiplier.

 

[Omegas03]

The reasoning for the lowballing is this btw:

SSJ3 Goku/BoG SSJ Goku: 2 KiloFoe (far above SPC)

SSJ Goku (beginning of Black arc): 4 KiloFoe (far above BoG SSJ Goku). He'll go up to 16 KiloFoe with SSJ3.

Base Goku (halfway through Black arc): at least 16 KiloFoe (stronger than his previous SSJ3). give him the SSJ multipliers to that 16.

 

[Dragomer]

I have no idea how Omegas03 managed to keep count of all the votes.