The most controversial debate continues... Son Goku vs Superman (7-20-16).

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Also, you forgot White Wolf.

Goku is at 8

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

for the guys saying Supes has an AP advantage, he doesn't. SSJ Goku is already on or superior to his level.

No. The whole scaling thing got debunked plenty of times

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

"Please try to avoid Controversial matches such as Superman vs Goku"

stop violating the rules.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

"Please try to avoid Controversial matches such as Superman vs Goku"
stop violating the rules.

This isnt banned, just discouraged

 

[Omegas03]

No, it hasn't gotten debunked.

 

[NormalPerson87]

Goku transforms before Supes reaching him since speed is equalized

He wont go straight up to SSJ3

And Superman won't straight up use his full power either.

"Weaknesses: Goku seeks strong opponents and will therefore allow his opponents to reach their full power for the sake of a good fight. He often drops his guard and leaves openings for his opponents whenever he gets distracted, lowering his durability."
This what I saw from his profile.

If goku had an AP advantage that argument would be moot since he still uses a good deal of his power when fighting opponents.
Thing is that unless he goes SSJ3 at the bat one hit from Supes blasts him into a million pieces

1. That's true.

2. Wait, how long does it take for Goku to transform to SSJ3? I mean, if he has time to transform, how long would it take him? Or can he just transform immediately?

 

[Omegas03]

Also, you forgot White Wolf.

Goku is at 8

White Wolf for which side?

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Goku transforms before Supes reaching him since speed is equalized

He wont go straight up to SSJ3

And Superman won't straight up use his full power either.

"Weaknesses: Goku seeks strong opponents and will therefore allow his opponents to reach their full power for the sake of a good fight. He often drops his guard and leaves openings for his opponents whenever he gets distracted, lowering his durability."
This what I saw from his profile.

If goku had an AP advantage that argument would be moot since he still uses a good deal of his power when fighting opponents.
Thing is that unless he goes SSJ3 at the bat one hit from Supes blasts him into a million pieces

1. That's true.
2. Wait, how long does it take for Goku to transform to SSJ3? I mean, if he has time to transform, how long would it take him? Or can he just transform immediately?

He can do it immedieately.

It's just that it's horribly OOC

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Also, you forgot White Wolf.

Goku is at 8

White Wolf for which side?

Goku

 

[DTG499]

1. It's already been established that it would be literally impossible to say that goku is still 1 KiloFoe by the events of goku black arc

2. Superman never starts off with his full power, he always holds back.

3. Read cyro the mayo's scaling calculation. SS2 and 3 would be enough to make it a combative stomp.

4. The argument for supes winning is his hax.

 

[Omegas03]

Base Goku is literally around 1-6 kilofoes....

OK, I'll address that scaling thing again.

SPC is 1 KiloFoe.

SSJ3 is accepted as an at least X2 multiplier so that's 2 KiloFoe.

BoG arc Goku with SSJ is equal to his previous SSJ3, so 2 KiloFoe.

Goku has improved a lot from BoG to beginning of Black arc, so let's say 4 KiloFoe for his SSJ. 16 KiloFoe for SSJ3 (minimum accepted multiplier).

Base Goku halfway through the Black arc is already above his previous SSJ3 considering he's relative to Base Vegeta who at SSJ2 stomped SSJ1 Goku Black, who in Base was superior to SSJ3 Goku at the Beginning of the Arc.

Base Goku would be 16 KiloFoe. Super Saiyan puts him at over 600. And that's a huge Lowball.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

And, no matter how much upscaling you can't make 1 Kilofoe go to 600.

 

[Nitro90]

No. The whole scaling thing got debunked plenty of times

When and base on what?

 

[Roun12]

He can do it immedieately.

It's just that it's horribly OOC

It's not out of character. If Goku senses that he needs SSJ3 to keep up with Superman, he'll go SSJ3.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I'm sorry, but that's how it is. You're gonna have to get over how Dragon Ball works.

 

[Omegas03]

600 isn't an unreachable or infinite number. Not especially when DB abuses multipliers and scaling a lot, saying he doesn't is a huge downplay.

1 can't reach 600 even if they stay at that tier for god knows how many time is bad logic.

 

[EnnardTrap1987]

I thought Goku vs Superman was a banned matchup..

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

It's not banned, just discouraged.

 

[Roun12]

I thought Goku vs Superman was a banned matchup..

It's not banned per-say. It's just discouraged.

 

[Omegas03]

And remember it's not mere scaling. Mere scaling takes Base Goku to the double digit KiloFoe, SSJ is a 40x multiplier that takes him closer to the MegaFoe. That's how DB works.

 

[NormalPerson87]

I thought Goku vs Superman was a banned matchup..

It's not banned, just very controversial to talk about.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

There is a massive difference between going 5 kilofoe up and going to 200 Kilofoe up. You can't say "he got stronger" to justify bumping goku up to 5 megafoe

 

[The_Wright_Way]

There are three types of comments that keep popping up.

1. "Goku is stronger/no he isn't."

2. "Superman heat visions his to death/no he doesn't."

3. "Isn't this match-up banned?"

 

[DTG499]

And, no matter how much upscaling you can't make 1 Kilofoe go to 600.

Why not? Dragon ball has done something like that before many many many times.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

There is a massive difference between going 5 kilofoe up and going to 200 Kilofoe up. You can't say "he got stronger" to justify bumping goku up to 5 megafoe

Dragon Ball does this ALL THE TIME.

 

[Omegas03]

Yeah. 600 ain't an infinite value for Goku

Its like saying Goku can't be 600 times stronger than SPC, DB abuses multipliers and scaling chains.

 

[Roun12]

There is a difference between going 5 kilofoe up and going to 200 Kilofoe up

Since the power multiplier for Super Saiyan forms 1, 2, and 3, are at least 40, 2, and 2, Super Saiyan 3 is at least a 160x multiplier which means base Goku only needs to be around 4-5 KiloFOE to be stronger than Superman.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Without feats he can't be imo.

 

[NormalPerson87]

Wait, what's Supes AP normally?

 

[Dragomer]

Goku litteraly closed a 1333 time gap in the namek saga, from 90K to above Freezer's 120 million.

Litteraly the only thing that can't be closed by multipliers and scailing chain on this wiki is the tier from low 2-C onward.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Wait, what's Supes AP normally?

600 Kilofoe

 

[NormalPerson87]

Wait, what's Supes AP normally?

600 Kilofoe

So, 640vs600? Or is there something I'm missing? Because that's a very neglegible AP difference.

 

[Dragomer]

Wait, what's Supes AP normally?

600 Kilofoe

No, that's his max AP for this key, that's not what he start a fight with.

 

[Omegas03]

Without feats he can't be imo.

It just moves him far further onto the same tier. It's not like he goes from 4-B to 4-A by scaling. I don't see any trouble. It's like DBZ Vegito ain't reaching 100 KiloFoe.

Anyways I think we should address other points because the AP thing is going in circles.

 

[Omegas03]

600 Kilofoe
So, 640vs600? Or is there something I'm missing? Because that's a very neglegible AP difference.

640 as SSJ1 Goku and that's a Lowball but yeah they are quite relative.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Wait, what's Supes AP normally?

600 Kilofoe

No, that's his max AP for this key, that's not what he start a fight with.

What, his heat vision can harm people comparable to 600 KFOE

 

[Omegas03]

Do we use Supes mid or High end calc? Because it's either 400 or 600 KiloFoe.

 

[LordUrien935]

Any vote I didn't count for Supes?

You didn't count Oblivion of the Endless and Adem Warlock69

 

[LordUrien935]

We use the high end. Superman has been 600+ KiloFOE for as long as I can remember.

 

[NormalPerson87]

600 Kilofoe

So, 640vs600? Or is there something I'm missing? Because that's a very neglegible AP difference. 640 as SSJ1 Goku and that's a Lowball but yeah they are quite relative.
And what is Goku's AP as SSJ3 with the lowball?