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The most controversial debate continues... Son Goku vs Superman (7-20-16).

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I'm Blue daba dee daba die said:
Dragomer said:
I'm Blue daba dee daba die said:
NormalPerson87 said:
Wait, what's Supes AP normally?
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600 Kilofoe
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No, that's his max AP for this key, that's not what he start a fight with.
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What, his heat vision can harm people comparable to 600 KFOE
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His heat vision negate durability, if it didn't there would be no argument.

Unless you're saying he can turn on or off the durability negation, which would change a lot.

Also Superman can control how strong his heat vision is, he never start with it at full power.
 
@NormalPerson87

X4 his SSJ power so 2.56 MegaFoe.

With that we get SSJ3 > SSJ2 > Supes/SSJ Goku.
 
Wasn't HV durability bypass when used on molecular level? Will Superman use it right off the bat?
 
The AP thing is really going in circles.

So I'll just ask what are the wincons of both and which are more likely to happen ƒæÇ
 
I'd say a warp kamehameha at SSJ2 or 3 is more likely than Superman hitting Goku's vital organs with heat vision.
 
The real cal howard said:
Toei Goku was supposed to be downgraded aeons ago due to a well into solar system level planet bust being asinine.
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Yeah that's damn ridiculous lmao.
 
The real cal howard said:
Toei Goku was supposed to be downgraded aeons ago due to a well into solar system level planet bust being asinine.
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The Planet bust was bigger than multiple Solar Systems tho
 
Going by what Omegas told me, here's what I've come up with:

Base form Goku vs Superman: Supes wins

SSJ Goku vs Superman: Probably Incon, but still debatable

SSJ2 Goku vs Superman: Maybe Goku? If not, then still debatable

SSJ3 Goku vs Superman: Probably Goku

Goku most likely won't need SSJ3, but if he does, then he probably wins.

I'm going for Incon, as SSJ and SSJ2 will probably decide the fight there. It really depends on who's more willing to go from the final blow before the other.
 
Omegas03 said:
The real cal howard said:
Toei Goku was supposed to be downgraded aeons ago due to a well into solar system level planet bust being asinine.
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Yeah that's damn ridiculous lmao.
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If 'that's ridiculous' start being a legitimate argument on this wiki, a lot of verse are getting downgraded.

Also we're talking about Dragon Ball, the verse that has a universe sized planete.
 
Yeah that's damn ridiculous lmao.

After looking over he's profile does seem kinda out dated he's heat resistance was post to be upgraded
 
NormalPerson87 said:
Going by what Omegas told me, here's what I've come up with:

Base form Goku vs Superman: Supes wins

SSJ Goku vs Superman: Probably Incon, but still debatable

SSJ2 Goku vs Superman: Maybe Goku? If not, then still debatable

SSJ3 Goku vs Superman: Probably Goku

Goku most likely won't need SSJ3, but if he does, then he probably wins.

I'm going for Incon, as SSJ and SSJ2 will probably decide the fight there. It really depends on who's more willing to go from the final blow before the other.
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Honestly incon is starting to look better sense the same points are being said.
 
That's why I said incon in the previous.

There are multiple ways this can go, depending on who lands what, responds how & reacts why. The match could go a number of ways.
 
Supes one shots only SS3 Gotenks and up can make up for the AP gap. Goku's biggest weakness is being physically weaker than someone.
 
the AP thing has been addressed. Chou Base Goku in the Black arc already surpasses his U6 arc SSJ3 self which is massively stronger than Buu arc SSJ3 Goku.

Basically, SSJ2 Goku (halfway through Black arc) >>> SSJ Black >>> Base Black >>> SSJ3 Goku (start of Black arc) >>>> SSJ Goku >>> SSJ Goku (BoG) = SSJ3 Goku (Buu) >>>> SPC
 
Omegas03 said:
the AP thing has been addressed. Chou Base Goku in the Black arc already surpasses his U6 arc SSJ3 self which is massively stronger than Buu arc SSJ3 Goku.
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Oh I forgot this isn't Z Goku.
 
I'll quote this reply of the previous thread as it addressed both Supes and Goku's wincons perfectly.


C2 of Omegon said:
AOE Heat Vision from Space is...ridiculous. Goku will never allow Superman to simply leave and his Instant Transmission means that he can be instantly be at Superman's side any time and suprise him. There's no lag time with Instant Transmission, making it a legitimate suprise move almost every time it's used. Besides, Superman doesn't really pull sniper manuvers of that sort.

Now, for the dura-neg and AOE heat vision. The dura-neg is legitmately dangerous to Goku and could severly injure and kill him if allowed to connect. Problem is actually connecting. Heat Vision is just an energy blast with some special properties. Goku can simply dodge it, counter with his own blasts or raise a ki barrier to block. Goku's Ki-sensing also means the heat vision coming, giving him earlier warnings.

The AOE heat vision if countered the same way as the dura-neg. Goku can just use IT to get out of the way or fire a big enough ki blast to creater a buffer between him and the heat vision. Also, fun fact: Superman using his heat vision on such scales is actually draining on his solar reserves. He can't spam AOE all day or even for very long. Also, before someone points it out, while Superman does have infinite stamina, that's only as long as his solar reserves hold out. If he expends faster than he can be recharged, like with an intense AOE heat vision, he can be left drained and tired.

That said, Superman has other aces in his corner. His intangibility and his freeze breath. Intagibility is great for defense but it renders Superman inable to actually physically interact with Goku, meaning he'll have to time when he does it if he wishes to retaliate quickly. As for the freeze breath, it could win if he immediately goes full throttle and AZ's Goku. But he has to resort to that level and still catch Goku with it.

Now, Goku's main strengths are his sheer skill as a martial artist with an aresenal of powers and skills built for fighting. He has trained under several different masters over the span of a few decades. This is ontop of fighting his entire life, dedicating his life to fighting and being of a species basically built to fight. Analytical Prediction and Power Mimicry are born out of Goku's sheer aptitude and skill for combat.

If Goku as a true AP advantage and is allowed to press that he could win with a big enough attack. A scenario that is full possible as he can sense how strong Superman is, while Superman has to experience how powerful and deadly Goku is. That is important as it dictates their mindsets. Something that is highly important here.

Superman, as a characters, ramps up as he needs to. He has no way of knowing just how powerful Goku really is and that leaves potential for him to be blindsided. However, Superman's capabilities mean that this isn't surefire way to truly take him. Unlike Superman, Goku doesn't have that many 'I win' moves. He's really only got one and Superman does have an answer for, though that's not a sure thing either.

Honestly, I see this as incon. Superman has more ways to win but they are offset by the fact that Goku has answers to them. Goku has a way to win based off his better analyzation skills and seemingly power difference, but Superman's intagibility throws a bit of a monkey-wrench into that.

Really, to me, it just boils down to how the match goes. Who responds to what in time, so on and so forth.
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