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The last dragon Vs the dragon Slayer

I don't think the Low 7-B version has that. Fire and Electricity Manipulation are out. Call Dragon and Dragon Aspect are out too. As well as Ice Form, Throw Voice, Disarm, Dismay, Ancient's Ascent, Battle Fury, Dragon's Rend, Clear Skies, Kyne's Peace and Whirlwind Sprint.
 
HenryWong122 said:
I don't think the Low 7-B version has that. Fire and Electricity Manipulation are out. Call Dragon and Dragon Aspect are out too. As well as Ice Form, Throw Voice, Disarm, Dismay, Ancient's Ascent, Battle Fury, Dragon's Rend, Clear Skies, Kyne's Peace and Whirlwind Sprint.
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Yes, he has it. It's a racial ability that you get as soon as the game started. It has the best pacify effect in the entire game. Not to mention it's thought-based, which would make it faster than anything Natsu can dish out.
 
1997KD said:
What hax 7-B dovabkin have? cause it looks like a hax stomp
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Paralyzation, empathic manipulation and fear manipulation can easily take care of Natsu. They are thought-based, so it's faster than anything Natsu have. He has fire resistance (from being a dunmer) and can easily wear items that increase his magic resistance. Not to mention Spellbreaker which in lore can passively silent mage before they can cast their spells (though whether early game Dovahkiin has it or not is debatable)
 
Natsu scales to stomping DF Sting and Rogue's combo attack which is much stronger than their normal attacks which are comparable to Gray's 4.3 megatons. I honestly question why he isn't just 7-B but eh.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Natsu scales to stomping DF Sting and Rogue's combo attack which is much stronger than their normal attacks which are comparable to Gray's 4.3 megatons. I honestly question why he isn't just 7-B but eh.
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Their AP seems comparable since the Dovahkiin is stronger than a weak dragon who in turn is far stronger than a 6.0 or 5.4 megatons Thu'um user. Natsu have the range advantage, but the fact that Dovahkiin have innate resistance toward fire from being a dunmer while also can wear items that grant magical resistance can easily compensate for this. I would vote for the Dovahkiin for his empathic manipulation via Voice of the Emperor or fear manipulation via Battle Cry. Of course, assuming this is not a stomp. What do you think?
 
Natsu bypasses MR so that may not be useful but Dova has too much thought based hax for him to really do much. Is there an in character starting move for it or what?
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Natsu bypasses MR so that may not be useful but Dova has too much thought based hax for him to really do much. Is there an in character starting move for it or what?
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This i quote from Matthew:

"Everyone here talking about first moves are blissfully unaware of how TES Metaphysics work

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...hy#The_Prisoner:_The_Hero_Who_Frees_The_World

The Prisoner is free from the chains of causality and determinism that bind the Dream of the Godhead, and thus have true free will to be as they are, walk any path they choose and do as they will.

They can be of any race, any gender, and do anything, and it will be all simultaneously and equally true regardless of contradictions, as the Prisoner is an entity that exists outside all possibility-points (Possible future branching paths).

So the Dovahkiin will have every item they can use, every spell they can use, and will be able to act with maximum efficiency and use the best spells, shouts, techniques and attacks for the situation at hand."

Even if the above statement is not true, early game Dovahkiin doesn't exactly have much abilities to use, so he will eventually uses his thought-based haxes like Serpent Stone paralyzation ability, Battle Cry or Voice of the Emperor.
 
Hax stomp it is. With comparable AP and likely skill as well, Natsu has no chance to beat Dova before the thought based hax is used.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Hax stomp it is. With comparable AP and likely skill as well, Natsu has no chance to beat Dova before the thought based hax is used.
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Well, who wants to close this?

Edit: just realised that Breton Dovahkiin have Dragonskin which allow him to absorb 50% magicka from hostile spells. Damn, Dovahkiin is literally the worst matchup for Natsu.
 
I don't like using racial abitilies as an advantage, except for rationales like Altmeris are excellent mages or Argonians are super tanky. Waria, you should exclude attributing statistics from gameplay mechanic as it can be seen as inaccurate.

However, most of Waria's points are on spot. I don't have much to add for a character, experiences all possibilities at once, can wear 50 enchanted gears of various magical hax and shiets!! Dovahkiin as a spellsword, in full enchanted gears, can cast a few of town-busting fireballs,lighting strikes or blizzard to annoy Natsu then proceedingly punching him into pastes. Again, Natsu fighting one of the most overhax characters in fiction is quite a bad idea.
 
The Dovahkin is nowhere close to the most hax'd characters and you can't get 50 echanted gear unless you break the game. I still think the Dovahkin wins (if he has Daedric Artifacts) but not for the reason you said, I'll write an another post soon.
 
Overhax here means versatility combined cosmic powers. I am not saying Dovahkiin or any The Prisoner is the strongest of all fiction, rather they have a ridiculous amount of abilities, very hax cosmic physiology, and the very definition of Player-based character (perfect hero).

50 Enchanted gears are just an example, actually I could cut it into an infinite amount of gears. The Prisoner Metaphysics.
 
The Dragonborn has like 30 abilities at best, and most of those abilities come from an external source (Daedric Artifacts). They also can't carry infinite gear; any thing they do or use is equally accurate (i think) due to their cosmology but they don't actually have all of it at once, just that they may have it. They don't have cosmic hax and it annoys me when people say they do. The Dragonborn in his 7-B key can't screw reality sideways and the 4-A CoC barely counts as cosmic and that's only due to ap (that he scales to, he didn't do the feat). Also here's the post I was making:

Now I'll first talk about if the Dovahkiin has Daedric Artifacts then if he doesn't.

If he has Daedric Artifacts then he could turn Natsu into a chicken with the Wabbajack (and apparently he also do that with magic but he can't in the game so I'm not counting it). I'm not sure which key Natsu gains death resistance so he may resist part of Mehrunes Razor's abilities but the razor can also alter his existence. The Ebony Blade absorbs Natsu essen. Battle Cry makes Natsu fearful (because I don't see fear resistance) along with what a few other Daedric artifacts.

However the Dragonborn has zero skill feats. Tsun wasn't trying at all, he abused Alduin's weakness and ganged up on him, Miraak did jack despite powering up four times in his fight with the Dragonborn (he brute forced through Miraak and ganged up on him with his dragons, he also had a low 1-C helping him to boot), and he brute forced through the Ebony Warrior. That's also all end game feats so the Dragonborn has zero skill feats. He either brute forced through everything or cheesed to hell and back (Harkon, Alduin, a large chunk of the other dragon fights).

Without Daedric Artifacts

I honestly think Natsu wins

The Dovahkin only has fear manipulation; everything else is just basic magic blast that Natsu can eat to become stronger. (Unless you can transmute people in lore). Enchantments are also worthless as all they do is stupid stuff like increase health or stamina which is not only gameplay mechanics, but also doesn't translate into anything in lore.

This is the only hax the Dovahkiin has in the first key (ignoring Daedric Artifacts)

Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Magic, Lightning, Fire, and ice manipulation, stealth (barely does anything), reality warping (not combat applicable), healing (not really combat applicable and it's only low), soul manipulation (not combat applicable), transmutation (not combat applicable), mind manipulation (not combat applicable), status amplification (doesn't even help against people weaker than the Dragonborn), illusion (not combat applicable), invisibility (barely combat applicable, for one attack), empathy manipulation (not combat applicable), and fear manipulation (can only use once a day and only last 30 seconds at worse); resistance to mind, soul, time, matter, magic, fire, lightning, ice (and I think a few others but, Natsu just punches sonit doesn't matter).

So with Daedric Artifacts Natsu gets stomped, without them the Dragonborn is an extremely unskilled combatant with like five abilities (he only has Fus when it comes to shouts)

Just going to say I'm 99% sure he has Daedric Artifacts so this is still a stomp for the Dragonborn but without them Natsu just punches him with the Dragonborn being able to do anything.
 
There are a number of things wrong with your post.

One, the Dovahkiin is not unskilled, you keep saying that he brute force his way through without giving any in-lore evidence. We fight Alduin at the Throat of the World, where even Paarthunax praise our skill, and Paarthunax is a dragon whose knowledge and experience spans for uncountable amount of years and had seen how the Three Tongues fight. We also defeat Miraak, who once fought against probably the most powerful Dragon Priest, Vahlok. Also, the Dovahkiin did not gang up on him. In fact, it was Miraak who at first hold the number advantage, so i don't know where you got that. Both of these are NOT a minor skill feats.

Also, you said you are 99% sure that the Dovahkiin have Daedric Artifacts, which mean he also take part in their quests. This include quests like Boethiah's Calling, where we emerge victorious in a battle royale and then proceed to kill Boethiah's former champion. He also had the Skeleton Key, which again, would require him to defeat Mercer in personal battle. This is someone who even Karliah, an experience Nightingale, was afraid of getting in a sword fight with.

So really, there is no real evidence that prove the Dovahkiin is unskilled. Natsu is certainly more skilled, but the Dovahkiin is not that far behind him.

Second, magical enchantments are not worthless. Things like fortify health and stamina had been mentioned and described in lore. At a high enough level, this school of magic can easily influence the battlefield (Ahzidal's enchantments helps the Nords against the Snow Elves). The Dovahkiin is a master enchanter who i'm sure can make a high level items that can easily absorb magical attacks and resist fire. Combine this with the fact that the Dovahkiin is a dunmer would make him Natsu's worst enemy.

Third, Dovahkiin, as a being who is of every races and genders all at the same time should logically have all of their racial abilities. This include abilities such as Dragonskin, which would allow him to absorb magicka, Hisrskin, which increase his Regenerationn capability, Berserker Rage, which can amplify Dovahkiin's attacks while decreasing Natsu's attacks, and Voice of the Emperor which can convince Natsu to stop fighting

You also forget the amount of Standing Stones abilities that the Dovahkiin can have. Serpent Stone will paralyze Natsu so that the Dovahkiin can get some easy hits in, Atronach Stone works like Dragonskins.

Fourth, Natsu in-character is not someone who would just eat any types of magic. Especially if he doesn't know what said magic can do, so there's that argument.

So really, the Dovahkiin have too much hax at his side. I can MAYBE see Natsu pulling 1/10 win with his superior skill, but that's the best he can do.
 
This is not end game Dragon Born that is low 2-C and immeasurable speed or even mid game High 6-A Dragon Born.

"We fight Alduin at the Throat of the World, where even Paarthunax praise our skill, and Paarthunax is a dragon whose knowledge and experience spans for uncountable amount of years and had seen how the Three Tongues fight. We also defeat Miraak, who once fought against probably the most powerful Dragon Priest, Vahlok. "

He hasn't done any of these feats.

" At a high enough level, this school of magic can easily influence the battlefield (Ahzidal's enchantments helps the Nords against the Snow Elves). The Dovahkiin is a master enchanter who i'm sure can make a high level items that can easily absorb magical attacks and resist fire."

Again, this is early game dragon born, so he's not a master enchanter or at a high level in any schools of magic.
 
Also, it's annoying that the daedric artifacts aren't at least in DB's standard equipment. I don't remember all of them but I think there was a shield that passively nulls spells even before the spells are used. That and the other probably haxxed daedric equipment make this a stomp since Prisoner Physiology means that all of the weapons are used at once or something like that.
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
This is not end game Dragon Born that is low 2-C and immeasurable speed or even mid game High 6-A Dragon Born.

"We fight Alduin at the Throat of the World, where even Paarthunax praise our skill, and Paarthunax is a dragon whose knowledge and experience spans for uncountable amount of years and had seen how the Three Tongues fight. We also defeat Miraak, who once fought against probably the most powerful Dragon Priest, Vahlok. "

He hasn't done any of these feats.

" At a high enough level, this school of magic can easily influence the battlefield (Ahzidal's enchantments helps the Nords against the Snow Elves). The Dovahkiin is a master enchanter who i'm sure can make a high level items that can easily absorb magical attacks and resist fire."

Again, this is early game dragon born, so he's not a master enchanter or at a high level in any schools of magic.
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I was more or less responding to Keeweed's arguments about how defeating Alduin and Miraak is not a skill feat. I know that they can't be used for early game Dovahkiin. But again, my other arguments about Mercer Frey and Daedric quests still holds. The Dovahkiin ia NOT unskilled.

Doesn't really matter anyway since the Dovahkiin still have a plethora of haxes that can make Natsu's magic completely useless. Dragonskin or other magic absorbtion items that he got in his adventure still counts. Not to mention his resistance to fire.

Anyway, the OP still hasn't restrict the Daedric Artifacts, so it's a stomp either way. I see no reason to debate this matchup.
 
(I'm just point out my thought process on why I think they're not really the best of skill feats but I am glad someone is finally trying to explain them to me, because I do love the Elder Scrolls (I've been playing Oblivion for the past week) but I'm always found the skill feats for a few of the characters to be weird) I more remember Paarthurnax praising your thu'um rather than skill, but since my memory isn't the best. I will say Mercer was not only ganged up on, but also probably isn't 7-B and he only canonically hurt the Dragonborn because he was poisoned and he still failed to the kill the Dragonborn despite stabbing him straight through the heart. Boethiah's champion's also aren't 7-B, but gettting the Ebony Mail maybe a skill feat since it's ability is passive. Miraak had to power up 4 separate times in the fight with the Dragonborn by absorbing his mind controlled dragons and he was stealing dragon souls from you earlier meantioning that he was getting stronger, yet the Dovahkiin kept repeatedly handing him is butt, which meaning unless the Dragonborn can randomly boost his power, he was superior to Miraak through 90% of the fight and he could have mind controlled Miraak's dragons (like how he got there in the first place).

I will say I did forget about Stone abilities (since I never use them), but I remember them only working once a day and lasting a few seconds. Now the fear + paralysis combo probably works wonders and I'm sorry for forgetting paralysis exist despite almost every enemy in Morrowind spamming it to high heavens (I know we're talking about Skyrim, but just saying why that should have stocked out in my mind).

Enchantments that turn the tide of battle are not only are from enchanters that literally every Elder Scrolls protagonist could only dream to be, but that also doesn't apply here, because if it did it would probably push him slightly into 7-B making this a stomp for the Dragonborn. I mean it already is; but AoE paralysis and instant fear manipulation (only once but it leads to paralysis) probably seals the deal.

Race abilities aren't really that good. The regen one's are only low to high low regen so unless Natsu only scratches him it really doesn't do anything. The berserker and the others that increase your stats don't do it to the point that you could completely change the face of a battle, imperial voice is literally only for shopping, it just makes him a better talker.

You did convince me that the Dragonborn wins, but I still want to discuss the skill feats, so I'll move that to the discussion board (actually I'll probably make the thread).

Also sorry for the long post, but I either have a lot on my mind like this thread or have nothing on my mind like when I barely post 1 comment.
 
Keeweed said:
Snips
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I do believe that it's better that this matter be moved to the discussion board. This matchup is pretty much a stomp and over. I probably won't be able to participate in it though.

One thing, Voice of the Emperor is not only for shopping because it has an effect of calming and stopping people from fighting you. So if Battle Cry works, then Voice of the Emperor should works too.

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Voice_of_the_Emperor
 
Oh, I guess I was think of Oblivion's Voice of the Emperor. But I'm pretty sure that stops working after getting hit and battle cry into paralysis is much more effective anyways. But the fact this wasn't already closed days ago surprises me.
 
Does he not have Daedric Artifacts, last time I said he didn't it lead to a thread long discussion and I believe Matt said he had them, but then when I say they do people say he doesn't have them.

This is definitely something I need to make a thread for.
 
Keeweed said:
Does he not have Daedric Artifacts, last time I said he didn't it lead to a thread long discussion and I believe Matt said he had them, but then when I say they do people say he doesn't have them.

This is definitely something I need to make a thread for.
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I did remember that Matt said the Dovahkiin have Daedric Artifacts in this key.
 
Well I'm pretty sure it was Matt that said that he didn't have them. But I might be wrong considering he has been way too vague about what exactly he does or doesn't have, and showed no intention of informing us.
 
The last Fiamma shitstorm says that Dovah has all artifacts except Dragonborn DLC. Many of artifact quests can be accomplished before doing the main quest, where as all keys are based upon.
 
Early game, level 1, Dovah can acquire the Wabbajack as well as possibility of randomly touching the Beacon of Meridia. I have done it before after escaping Helgen, and before fighting the first dragon in Whiterun.
 
Natsu is weak and over rated I have thoroughly been through a list of characters who can destroy him including dragon kaneki , luffy , six paths madara and any one pice logia . so I have no doubt that natsu would lose .+ the entire manga and anime are rubbish I just think if you want a fire boy get sasuke or shoto Todoroki.
 
And none of that has to do with the match up at hand. Try and post something that is on topic and isn't entirely based on your opinion.
 
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