The Fate of the World (Neo Metal Sonic vs Yhwach) [13-8-1]

[Omegabronic]

He's not causing irreversible damage against Yhwach, the damage caused by his punches/general attacks don't have the innate effect of being bounded by irregular/different flow of time. That's absurd. You're absolutely wanking the **** out of Acausality (Type 4). The onus would be on you to prove that just because Sonic operates a different flow of time it means the cause and effect of damage is different. Which you haven't proven yet.

yeah so? to undo the damage he has to undo the act of metal punching him, which he can't do due to the acausality type 4

It's.

care to explain?

Evidence?

btw both teleport and time stop are the same ability

Also how likely his Metal Sonic going to even use Chaos Control, is it commonly used or a rare occurrence?

he mostly uses when he sees it necessary

The evidence is on his profile, he's able to absorb people beyond his physical grasp as shown with Mimihagi.

so he needs to have a physical grasp, which he will not because of the forcefield

How likely would Metal Sonic use Teleportation given the plethora of other abilities he has in his arsenal?

he would use it if he saw necessary, he has used before in rivals when he saw as nescesary, here even more with his super genius intelligence

 

[LaserPrecision]

I'm going to bed soon so i'll address any future counter arguments tomorrow.

Hopefully more Bleach fans actually participate in this thread, since it's been basically just me and hellscream debating on Yhwach's behalf tbh.

For what it's worth, I'm actually on your guys side. And I'm a Sonic fan. I just disagree with hell scream on how hax are treated

 

[Omegabronic]

You can still fate manip yourself, even if your opponent is acausal.

but if your fate is caused by an acausal being, then to change it you would need to change the actions of the said being, no?

 

[Hellscream]

You're making the false assertion that hax has ap or smth. Existence Erasure doesn't have any level of ap. It IGNORES ap and durability. It is only 3D in nature (unless proven otherwise of course). Existence erasure from a regular ass human would erase a High Universal character. The ONLY way it wouldn't is if the high universal character either has a resistance OR has a higher dimension physiology. Which is TWO set limits. Thus not a NPR fallacy as you have been claiming ad nauseum. If you don't believe me, you can look through previous Q&A threads or make one to clarify on this. If durability circumvented hax, it defeats the purpose of how hax works. "Oh no! My ability to negate durability got negated by my opponents durability because they're more durable then me."

It doesn't make sense. The exception of course is abilities that SHOW this limitation. Like in Dragon Ball where they have nerfed/watered down hax that become ineffective against stronger enemies (with a few exceptions)

Prove that it works the same way on a character that is infinitely above it. despite them both being 3-D.
This applies to any FINITE amount, not infinite.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

but if your fate is caused by an acausal being, then to change it you would need to change the actions of the said being, no?

Not without mountain of evidence your Acausality working so sophisticated.

Acausality is limited to yourself, not the actions done on world.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Prove that it works the same way on a character that is infinitely above it. despite them both being 3-D.
This applies to any FINITE amount, not infinite.

It's self evident. An ability IGNORES durability. Having infinite durability is irrelevant as it is ignored. That's all there is to it.

If you still disagree, there's not much I can do to satiate this self incredulity except maybe recommend some threads on the wiki entailing this (When I'm not on mobile, cuz vs wiki on mobile is complete aids)

 

[Omegabronic]

Not without mountain of evidence your Acausality working so sophisticated.

Acausality is limited to yourself, not the actions done on world.

but if the actions are being caused by you, then if you are acausal then the other being would need to change your actions, which is impossible in this scenario

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Prove that it works the same way on a character that is infinitely above it. despite them both being 3-D.
This applies to any FINITE amount, not infinite.

Let me tell you a secret.
3D EE will work on 3D character even if durability is Tier 0, unless sufficient resistance.

 

[Hellscream]

It's self evident. An ability IGNORES durability. Having infinite durability is irrelevant as it is ignored. That's all there is to it.

If you still disagree, there's not much I can do to satiate this self incredulity except maybe recommend some threads on the wiki entailing this (When I'm not on mobile, cuz vs wiki on mobile is complete aids)

let me just post the definition of an NLF

16. No Limits Fallacy (NLF)​

This is when someone states that because something has not demonstrated any limits (or only certain limits) then it has none (or only the ones demonstrated).

 

[Hellscream]

Let me tell you a secret.
3D EE will work on 3D character even if durability is Tier 0, unless sufficient resistance.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Before you claim this is nlf again, I WILL admit that 3D existence erasure WOULDN'T work on a character with 4D physiology (higher dimensional existence). Thus it IS limited.

 

[Hellscream]

can someone post me the threads where all of this is accepted btw

 

[LaserPrecision]

let me just post the definition of an NLF

16. No Limits Fallacy (NLF)​

This is when someone states that because something has not demonstrated any limits (or only certain limits) then it has none (or only the ones demonstrated).

Inapplicable. Already dismissed by reasons I provided earlier that maverick sniped me to

 

[Omegabronic]

let me just post the definition of an NLF

16. No Limits Fallacy (NLF)​

This is when someone states that because something has not demonstrated any limits (or only certain limits) then it has none (or only the ones demonstrated).

let me show you our hax page:

Hax

Hax is a catch-all term for abilities that can be used to ignore/bypass one or more of a target's statistics, rendering them irrelevant. The most common hax are the ones that ignore durability, and their scale/potency are unrelated to their users' AP & Tier, however, they can be measured with...

vsbattles.fandom.com

"Hax is a catch-all term for abilities that can be used to ignore/bypass one or more of a target's statistics, rendering them irrelevant.

The most common hax are the ones that ignore durability, and their scale/potency are unrelated to their users' AP & Tier"

 

[Hellscream]

let me show you our hax page:

Hax

Hax is a catch-all term for abilities that can be used to ignore/bypass one or more of a target's statistics, rendering them irrelevant. The most common hax are the ones that ignore durability, and their scale/potency are unrelated to their users' AP & Tier, however, they can be measured with...

vsbattles.fandom.com

"Hax is a catch-all term for abilities that can be used to ignore/bypass one or more of a target's statistics, rendering them irrelevant.

The most common hax are the ones that ignore durability, and their scale/potency are unrelated to their users' AP & Tier"

All of this is limited fam just saying

 

[Omegabronic]

All of this is limited fam just saying

yeah it is, by things like higher dimensional existance and hax resistance, the strength of your body doesn't matter

 

[LaserPrecision]

let me show you our hax page:

Hax

Hax is a catch-all term for abilities that can be used to ignore/bypass one or more of a target's statistics, rendering them irrelevant. The most common hax are the ones that ignore durability, and their scale/potency are unrelated to their users' AP & Tier, however, they can be measured with...

vsbattles.fandom.com

"Hax is a catch-all term for abilities that can be used to ignore/bypass one or more of a target's statistics, rendering them irrelevant.

The most common hax are the ones that ignore durability, and their scale/potency are unrelated to their users' AP & Tier"

That alone should be sufficient evidence that it's accepted here, but I feel linking a thread with staff agreeing on this is the only way it'll get through this level of self incredulity. Reason alone has t worked thus far, so I believe appeal to authority is sadly the only way we can get them to agree wih us

 

[Hellscream]

no hax is going to work on a character that is infinitely above it, without going into NLF territory. If this wiki accepts NLF bs like that, then post the threads where it's accepted.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Called it

 

[Hellscream]

Called it

I already asked for the threads multiple times btw

 

[Omegabronic]

no hax is going to work on a character that is infinitely above it, without going into NLF territory. If this wiki accepts NLF bs like that, then post the threads where it's accepted.

if a character has shown resistance above said hax then it obviously will not work, as shown in the hax page stats alone are irrelevant

 

[Omegabronic]

I already asked for the threads multiple times btw

we don't need to show a thread for something that it is blatantly said in the page

 

[Hellscream]

stats alone are irrelevant, but higher dimensional characters just have stats on a higher scale of infinity though..
but wait, that's an exception though dimensional characters get extra special stats, despite not having the said resistance
but stats are irrelevant?????

 

[Vietthai96]

The guy confuse hax with physical stats or something

 

[LaserPrecision]

I already asked for the threads multiple times btw

I'm aware, bud. It's why I suggested they instead link a thread instead of the official vs wiki fandom page explaining what we said us accepted by the wiki as I knew you still wouldn't agree. Thus I deduced appeal to authority was the only way to get through your stubbornness. I was right. If no one else will link it for you, I will when I hop on pc

 

[Omegabronic]

stats alone are irrelevant, but higher dimensional characters just have stats on a higher scale of infinity though..
but wait, that's an exception though dimensional characters get extra special stats, despite not having the said resistance

dude, a character having tier 2 does not have higher dimensional existence, if a character has higher dimensional existence then obviously a 3D hax will not work

 

[Hellscream]

dude, a character having tier 2 does not have higher dimensional existence, if a character has higher dimensional existence then obviously a 3D hax will not work

but hax makes stats irrelevant???
dimensionality is just a stat therefore it's irrelevant and hax works
3-D works on 1-A confirmed

 

[Hellscream]

it's just another layer of infinity, of course it'd work what are you saying man

 

[Hellscream]

layers of infinity are just stats guys, EE = omnipotence confirmed ima EE God irl

 

[LaserPrecision]

stats alone are irrelevant, but higher dimensional characters just have stats on a higher scale of infinity though..
but wait, that's an exception though dimensional characters get extra special stats, despite not having the said resistance
but stats are irrelevant?????

Since I figure others won't address it in a way you find fulfilling, Ill summarize.

The reason those with higher dimensional physiology are immune to lower dimensional hax is because their existence is of infinitely more complex nature, so we can't assume lower dimensional hax would affect them. Having higher dimensional durability on the other hand is just having durability uncountably infinite above 3D Ap while still maintaining a 3D body in nature

 

[Vietthai96]

Actually, what HDE grant is a psuedo-resistance toward lower D hax, because even if HDE character don't have resistance lower D hax can't affect HDE due to the dimensionality of said hax can't cover the totality of the entire HDE character existence

3-D works on 1-A confirmed

It is, if said 1-A character is a 3D existence and can't resist the 3D hax

 

[Hellscream]

Actually, what HDE grant is a psuedo-resistance toward lower D hax, because even id HDE character don't have resistance lower D hax can't affect HDE due to the dimensionality of said hax can't cover the totality of the entire HDE character existence

It is, if said 1-A character is a 3D existence and can't resist the 3D hax

bro ur killing me stop

 

[Undylan]

bro ur killing me stop

If you have nothing to say other then strawman. Take it to a CRT.

 

[Shmooply]

Reading through this thread sucked genuine actual penises and I regret wasting so many minutes of my time.
Yhwach FRA.

 

[Omegabronic]

but hax makes stats irrelevant???
dimensionality is just a stat therefore it's irrelevant and hax works
3-D works on 1-A confirmed

dimensionalty is a hax, not a physical stat, and if said 1-A is a 3D being, then yeah it would work

 

[Smashtwig]

Let me tell you a secret.
3D EE will work on 3D character even if durability is Tier 0, unless sufficient resistance.

I'm gonna have to comment on this but doesn't that mean that like, Mario with EE inside a video game can erase me from existence? I'm infinitely above Mario by an absurd level bruh but because I dont got resistance to EE I guess Mario just bodies me?

Also I feel like Yhwach wins this sheerly because I don't get how Acausality... like, is justified- time is an entirely different thing from casuality after all

 

[Hellscream]

Since I figure others won't address it in a way you find fulfilling, Ill summarize.

The reason those with higher dimensional physiology are immune to lower dimensional hax is because their existence is of infinitely more complex nature, so we can't assume lower dimensional hax would affect them. Having higher dimensional durability on the other hand is just having durability uncountably infinite above 3D Ap while still maintaining a 3D body in nature

so you're assuming that a character with AP / Durability that's infinitely above a baseline character has the same complexity?

 

[LaserPrecision]

I do think Yhwach wins, though Ill refrain from voting until grace starts in case things shift. However, in the meantime I'm gonna try to make a Q&A thread for Hellscream that hopefully famalirializes them with the stabdards regarding hax on the site.

 

[LaserPrecision]

I'm gonna have to comment on this but doesn't that mean that like, Mario with EE inside a video game can erase me from existence? I'm infinitely above Mario by an absurd level bruh but because I dont got resistance to EE I guess Mario just bodies me?

Also I feel like Yhwach wins this sheerly because I don't get how Acausality... like, is justified- time is an entirely different thing from casuality after all

Mario is fake, you are a real person...

 

[Hellscream]

Mario is fake, you are a real person...

those are just stats man, mario can EE the events of ww2