The Fate of the World (Neo Metal Sonic vs Yhwach) [13-8-1]

[ShakeResounding]

Metal Sonic FRA.

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

Neo Metal FRA

 

[Hellscream]

So far this thread has been NLF, upon NLF upon assumption upon interpretation upon 3-D = Infinite 3-D and low2-c = 2-A
learning a lot of new stuff ngl

 

[Hellscream]

I'll be making seperate threads for this ngl, i need some more input

 

[Dragonite007]

Zonic Fra

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

mate what are you even saying?
measured by metrics of how much mass/volume/density it can absorb
ur gonna measure the metrics of power absorption?

there are multiple ways of absorption you know that right?

I did talk about absorption specifically didn't I?
I also gave the most generic factors which dictate a default absorption.

I also clarified that nature and application of absorption can wary. You just cherry picked my arguements.

 

[Hellscream]

You didn't provide any arguments at all, just spouting nonsense tbh

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Heh, ironic.

 

[Hellscream]

If a character has been shown to copy low2-c existence erasure, does not mean he can copy 2-A existence erasure.
If a character can copy existence erasure on the level of an ant, that doesn't mean he can copy it on a universal scale.

that's not NLF right

it's been a while since i've seen such ridiculous wank

 

[ShakeResounding]

Heh, ironic.

Even better is the nonstop strawman lol

 

[Hellscream]

Even better is the nonstop strawman lol

seems like you need to search up the definition of a strawman first tbh

 

[LaserPrecision]

If a character has been shown to copy low2-c existence erasure, does not mean he can copy 2-A existence erasure.
If a character can copy existence erasure on the level of an ant, that doesn't mean he can copy it on a universal scale.

that's not NLF right

it's been a while since i've seen such ridiculous wank

Ant level existence erasure isn't a thing. That's range. Or AOE in this case. The whole point of existence erasure is that ignores durability. So universal and ant level EE function the same. Only difference is one covers more space.

There's also hardly been any nlf. MOST of the claims defined a limit, meaning a limit is being placed and thus not a nlf. Though I will admit some claims treaded in nlf grounds

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

If a character has been shown to copy low2-c existence erasure, does not mean he can copy 2-A existence erasure.
If a character can copy existence erasure on the level of an ant, that doesn't mean he can copy it on a universal scale.

that's not NLF right

it's been a while since i've seen such ridiculous wank

It all depends on context. I may very well be able to copy or atleast pseudo replicate an ability and modify it's application depending on my own ability and limits. How effective that is depends on opponents in question and the hax involved.

You cannot call it a cut and dry case with such generalsed logic.

Even better is the nonstop strawman lol

That as well.

 

[Hellscream]

Ant level existence erasure isn't a thing. That's range. Or AOE in this case. The whole point of existence erasure is that ignores durability. So universal and ant level EE function the same. Only difference is one covers more space.

There's also hardly been any nlf. MOST of the claims defined a limit, meaning a limit is being placed and thus not a nlf. Though I will admit some claims treaded in nlf grounds

a character with High 3-A durability is not getting EE'd by a character with 8-B EE just saying, that's yet again an NLF...

 

[Hellscream]

Since when does VSBW accept NLFs?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Than that's AP I guess, not EE lol.

 

[Omegabronic]

neo metal sonic 10 (omegabronic, Undylan, BEASTHEART880, GilverTheProtoAngelo, Artorimachi_Meteoraft ShakeResounding GlaceonGamez471 Dragonite007 Gilad_Hyperstar TauanVictor)
yhwach 1 (Deceived3596)
incon 0

just keeping the votes to make it easier for the op

grace btw

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Gonna go with Metal FRA, especially since 3D hax do affect physically (emphasis on "physically") 3D beings even if they're tiers 2 or higher

 

[YungManzi]

Bleach guys got anything more to add before I also vote for Metal Sonic?

 

[Dragonite007]

a character with High 3-A durability is not getting EE'd by a character with 8-B EE just saying, that's yet again an NLF...

Actually, a charactere with High 3-A durability is getting EE'd by a character with 8-B EE
EE is dura neg

 

[LaserPrecision]

a character with High 3-A durability is not getting EE'd by a character with 8-B EE just saying, that's yet again an NLF...

Then it's not existence erasure. It's just ap. EE ignores durability. That's the whole point of hax.

Before you claim this is nlf again, I WILL admit that 3D existence erasure WOULDN'T work on a character with 4D physiology (higher dimensional existence). Thus it IS limited.

 

[LaserPrecision]

There's also no such things as 8-B existence erasure. All 3D erasure are 3D in nature and neg all durability of characters with a three dimensional existence. Unless of course they have a resistance. This is the case as far as the entire site is concerned. There are already Q&A theads discussing this. Though you are free to make another if you aren't satisfied with the answers provided here.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Won't vote since I didn't plan to get too involved with this debate, and I want to hear Hellscream out more. Especially since he's getting jumped right now.

 

[Deceived3596]

I love a FRA based around ******* nothing.

AP stomping doesn't matter because Yhwach endlessly changes the future around to revive himself, the eight times speed amp doesn't matter as Yhwach's Almighty activates faster since it's thought-based, allowing him to teleport directly infront of Sonic and absorb him. Something that Sonic doesn't resist nor doesn't seem like to have a counter for. Appealing to the barrier doesn't matter since Yhwach can absorb beyond his physical grasp as shown with the Mimigagi, and he can also absorb powers on a 4-D level. Meaning the barrier is beyond useless.

Yhwach just teleports and absorbs Sonic, Yhwach FRA.

 

[Theuser789]

What I like about this thread is that everyone is voting for Sonic instead. Based and Metal is the real Sonic-pilled

 

[Omegabronic]

I love a FRA based around ******* nothing.

AP stomping doesn't matter because Yhwach endlessly changes the future around to revive himself

acausality type 4, he would not be able to

the eight times speed amp doesn't matter as Yhwach's Almighty activates faster since it's thought-based, allowing him to teleport directly infront of Sonic and absorb him.

8 times faster in a equalized speed match, metal would be faster than the thinking

Something that Sonic doesn't resist nor doesn't seem like to have a counter for.

chaos control to stop time and then bfr

Appealing to the barrier doesn't matter since Yhwach can absorb beyond his physical grasp as shown with the Mimigagi, and he can also absorb powers on a 4-D level. Meaning the barrier is beyond useless.

he absorbs the barrier, and then metal still hits him, plus chaos control

Yhwach just teleports and absorbs Sonic, Yhwach FRA.

you know that metal can teleport too right?

 

[YungManzi]

I love a FRA based around ******* nothing.

AP stomping doesn't matter because Yhwach endlessly changes the future around to revive himself, the eight times speed amp doesn't matter as Yhwach's Almighty activates faster since it's thought-based, allowing him to teleport directly infront of Sonic and absorb him. Something that Sonic doesn't resist nor doesn't seem like to have a counter for. Appealing to the barrier doesn't matter since Yhwach can absorb beyond his physical grasp as shown with the Mimigagi, and he can also absorb powers on a 4-D level. Meaning the barrier is beyond useless.

Yhwach just teleports and absorbs Sonic, Yhwach FRA.

I think the point is that acausality types 4 makes it so that he probably can't use it to undo the actions of metal sonic. Honestly who know how that even works tho.

 

[Deceived3596]

acausality type 4, he would not be able to

Acausalty doesn't affect the general future around them, it's just that they're themselves dependent on an irregular/different flow of time, not that the time flow of a neutral battlefield is irregular/different.

8 times faster in a equalized speed match, metal would be faster than the thinking

You do understand the speed of thought is massively faster than an eight times differential between two normally, equally speed individuals?

chaos control to stop time and then bfr

Absorbs him before he can get it off.

he absorbs the barrier, and then metal still hits him, plus chaos control

He absorbs both at the same time.

you know that metal can teleport too right?

Cool, show me evidence on how this teleportation works.

 

[Omegabronic]

I think the point is that acausality types 4 makes it so that he probably can't use it to undo the actions of sonic. Honestly who know how that even works tho.

i would have no idea how to represent it visually also, it is one of those "tripy" abilities lol

 

[Hellscream]

I love a FRA based around ******* nothing.

AP stomping doesn't matter because Yhwach endlessly changes the future around to revive himself, the eight times speed amp doesn't matter as Yhwach's Almighty activates faster since it's thought-based, allowing him to teleport directly infront of Sonic and absorb him. Something that Sonic doesn't resist nor doesn't seem like to have a counter for. Appealing to the barrier doesn't matter since Yhwach can absorb beyond his physical grasp as shown with the Mimigagi, and he can also absorb powers on a 4-D level. Meaning the barrier is beyond useless.

Yhwach just teleports and absorbs Sonic, Yhwach FRA.

Most real statement on this thread

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

8 times faster in a equalized speed match, metal would be faster than the thinking

Not necessarily.
It's dependent on time and distance.

 

[Omegabronic]

Acausalty doesn't affect the general future around them, it's just that they're themselves dependent on an irregular/different flow of time.

which includes their actions, yhwach will not be able to see nor change metal's future actions since he exists on a separated system from normal cause and effect

You do understand the speed of thought is massively faster than an eight times differential between two normally, equally speed individuals?

no it isn't, reaction speed is just that

Absorbs him before he can get it off.

chaos control is also thought based

He absorbs both.

show me an example, because it was said that he needs to hold it physically

Cool, show me evidence on how this teleportation works.

 

[Deceived3596]

which includes their actions, yhwach will not be able to see nor change metal's future actions since he exists on a separated system from normal cause and effect

He's not causing irreversible damage against Yhwach, the damage caused by his punches/general attacks don't have the innate effect of being bounded by irregular/different flow of time. That's absurd. You're absolutely wanking the **** out of Acausality (Type 4).

The onus would be on you to prove that just because Sonic operates a different flow of time it means the cause and effect of damage is different. Which you haven't proven yet.

no it isn't, reaction speed is just that

It's.

chaos control is also thought based

Evidence?

Also how likely his Metal Sonic going to even use Chaos Control, is it commonly used or a rare occurrence?

show me an example, because it was said that he needs to hold it physically

The evidence is on his profile, he's able to absorb people beyond his physical grasp as shown with Mimihagi.

How likely would Metal Sonic use Teleportation given the plethora of other abilities he has in his arsenal?

 

[Hellscream]

There's also no such things as 8-B existence erasure. All 3D erasure are 3D in nature and neg all durability of characters with a three dimensional existence. Unless of course they have a resistance. This is the case as far as the entire site is concerned. There are already Q&A theads discussing this. Though you are free to make another if you aren't satisfied with the answers provided here.

There are things such as being baseline 3-D, and being infinite 3-D, saying that a character who can EE a baseline 3-D character, can also EE an infinite 3-D character is a blatant NLF, the difference between their AP is infinite despite being of the same dimensionality.

Being of the same dimensionality does not always mean that said hax works due to them being the same dimensionality, not when another character is infinitely above it.

I agree with any finite amount, but not an infinite amount. that's just wank.

 

[Hellscream]

If someone has a thread, where this supposedly has been discussed and agreed on, feel free to post it.

 

[TauanVictor]

Sonic FRA

 

[Deceived3596]

I'm going to bed soon so i'll address any future counter arguments tomorrow.

Hopefully more Bleach fans actually participate in this thread, since it's been basically just me and hellscream debating on Yhwach's behalf tbh.

 

[LaserPrecision]

There are things such as being baseline 3-D, and being infinite 3-D, saying that a character who can EE a baseline 3-D character, can also EE an infinite 3-D character is a blatant NLF, the difference between their AP is infinite despite being of the same dimensionality.

Being of the same dimensionality does not always mean that said hax works due to them being the same dimensionality, not when another character is infinitely above it.

You're making the false assertion that hax has ap or smth. Existence Erasure doesn't have any level of ap. It IGNORES ap and durability. It is only 3D in nature (unless proven otherwise of course). Existence erasure from a regular ass human would erase a High Universal character. The ONLY way it wouldn't is if the high universal character either has a resistance OR has a higher dimension physiology. Which is TWO set limits. Thus not a NPR fallacy as you have been claiming ad nauseum. If you don't believe me, you can look through previous Q&A threads or make one to clarify on this. If durability circumvented hax, it defeats the purpose of how hax works. "Oh no! My ability to negate durability got negated by my opponents durability because they're more durable then me."

It doesn't make sense. The exception of course is abilities that SHOW this limitation. Like in Dragon Ball where they have nerfed/watered down hax that become ineffective against stronger enemies (with a few exceptions)

 

[YungManzi]

Acausalty doesn't affect the general future around them, it's just that they're themselves dependent on an irregular/different flow of time, not that the time flow of a neutral battlefield is irregular/different.

Except, Yhwach undoing his death here means he's undoing the actions of an acausal type 4.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Except, Yhwach undoing his death here means he's undoing the actions of an acausal type 4.

You can still fate manip yourself, even if your opponent is acausal.