The Death of Portgas D. Ace

[SupremeGilgamesh]

I went to reread the death of Ace again to analyze something

Akainu says in that moment that his fruit can overwhelm the flames of Ace fruit

Second what he says in one translation:"You are merely fire.I am magma that consumes fire"

And i thought what this meant about

So i read step by step

And that's is what i come up

The Magma fruit is superior to the Fire fruit because it can negate resistance to heat and limitedly negate fire/heat-based intagibility

That's my train of thought

 

[Purgy]

At face value it would be extremely limited to only affecting those who's intangibility is fire/heat based and with heat colder than his yes.

This is what Akainu said btw

 

[The_Calaca]

Oda said the Mera Mera is the weaker in the clash.

Plus he can negate the intangibility with Haki.

 

[SupremeGilgamesh]

Oda said the Mera Mera is the weaker in the clash.
Plus he can negate the intangibility with Haki.

Okay(i should worded better)

That is how i think it could be

Limited Intagibility Negation(Akainu magma is so hot it can overhelm fire/heat based intagibility)

 

[Damage3245]

No? He just surpassed Ace's resistance to heat.

That doesn't involve any special intangibility negation (besides his Haki).

 

[Ryuga21]

For me it's just his massive heat manipulation overpowering Ace's

 

[SupremeGilgamesh]

No? He just surpassed Ace's resistance to heat.
That doesn't involve any special intangibility negation (besides his Haki).

"The Death of Portgas D.Ace"

 

[GyroNutz]

Damage makes sense to me

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Akainu attacked Ace with Magma, a thick substance that can smother fire and deprave it of oxygen. I believe the profile even notes this.

 

[SupremeGilgamesh]

......

Okay i'm gonna tell the truth

I'm basically want to remove Ace weakness to "superior heat"

 

[The_Calaca]

You can't. Oda explained the reason with that.

 

[SupremeGilgamesh]

You can't. Oda explained the reason with that.

Can we at least analyze it?

 

[The_Calaca]

What's left to analyze? Oda said the reason why Ace was overpowered it's because the Magu Magu is objectively > the Mera Mera and Akainu has Haki to circumvent the intangibility.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

I wouldn't say superior heat, that's likely in reference to Ace's heat resistance as opposed to his intangiblilty being bypassed. Akainu's magma can smother the flames of the Mera Mera no Mi while also bypassing the natural heat Resistance of the Mera Mera no Mi while in their human form.

 

[SupremeGilgamesh]

Okay Can i recount the event? Akainu says bad words about Whitebeard Ace gets angry They fight Ace gets burned "My magma is so hot it can consume flames"

What i am suggesting is that instead of Ace being weak to heat superior to him,it's maybe Akainu who is so powerful he can circumvent the heat resistance and intagibility granted by the Mera Mera no Mi

Also i want to read the raw scan of the question and answer about these two fruits

 

[The_Calaca]

The official explanation says the opposite, so no. But look at the raws, although I doubt you'll find anything important enough to change the interpretation.

 

[SupremeGilgamesh]

Can you link to the SBS because i ain't finding

 

[SupremeGilgamesh]

Made some changes to better illustrate my example

 

[Ryuga21]

Any resistance can be bypassed by superior hax. A character that resists a mindhax that can affect only one mind can be affected by another that can affect thousands of minds.

Akainu here just overcame Ace's heat resistance with his magma that was much hotter, I don't see any new ability in that.

 

[AstralKing7]

This isn't hax tho. Heat is AP based. For ace's weakness I think it's best to just leave the description but make it more justified. Like I'm pretty sure ace should be able to withstand heat from someone at least two times stronger than him

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Actually I believe Heat isn't AP based anymore.

 

[Ionliosite]

Actually I believe Heat isn't AP based anymore.

Were those revisions even accepted?

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

No clue but I've been told by SirLance and DarkDragon heat isn't AP based anymore. Is the thread still ongoing?

 

[AstralKing7]

Heat is literally AP based. I also remember the threads it was discussed. Also discussing it again will get very annoying

 

[SupremeGilgamesh]

Can we go back to the main point?

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Giving Akainu negation of flame based elemental intang is redundant. Magma is a thick substance that can suffocate and smother fire, depriving it of oxygen thus making fire impossible. It's basic chemistry and science, it's not something that necessarily needs to be on the profile.

 

[SupremeGilgamesh]

Giving Akainu negation of flame based elemental intang is redundant. Magma is a thick substance that can suffocate and smother fire, depriving it of oxygen thus making fire impossible. It's basic chemistry and science, it's not something that necessarily needs to be on the profile.

I call bull


Flames are a Non-Physical Element that can't be touched by anything Solid or Liquid and will reform instantly when faced with something that interrupts their path

Furthermore,magma is a heat based element so when Akainu fisted Ace,he should have fueled Ace flames

And don't come with science because then i bring common logic

This is the only way Ace death can be explained instead of something that is paradoxical on itself

 

[The_Calaca]

>Science

>Not common logic

 

[Xulrev]

This is a bit ridiculous.

Akainu's Devil Fruit is stronger, Oda has confirmed the Magu Magu no mi to have the highest offense of any DF, so of course Ace didn't overcome it.

Akainu has Haki, he can negate durability.

Magma is a solid that smothers flame, of course it can extinguish fire.

There's literally no basis for giving Akainu intang negation here beyond Haki, his DF doesn't have that.

 

[Ryuga21]

I think this could already be closed, most supporters disagree

 

[SupremeGilgamesh]

Ok

What part of the OP are you guys not reading?

I'm not talking about AP.I'm talking about pure hax

Pure Unaltedered Hax

 

[Crimson7867]

This thread:


I call bull

 

[The_Calaca]

Said hax is unrelated to the DF. Akainu uses Haki to negate intangibility, not DF powers.

 

[SupremeGilgamesh]

Did he said he used Haki to do it though?

 

[The_Calaca]

There's no other logical answer.

 

[SupremeGilgamesh]

Besides Hax Advantage?

 

[The_Calaca]

Hax that has no source.

You're assuming the fruit has Intangibility Negation which isn't stated at all.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

That's not a hax advantage either.

 

[SupremeGilgamesh]

Hax that has no source.
You're assuming the fruit has Intangibility Negation which isn't stated at all.

Scrub Voice for Jolyne:"So are you"

 

[The_Calaca]

Yeah, I'm inventing Haki has NPI, true. I genuinely forgot that there's no evidence of it being the logia's counter.

BTW, SBS vol. 79 confirms the Magu Magu > Mera Mera.