Ahhh... Then I misunderstood you, I meant BDE type 2 not R>F.
Then i guess a lot of it depends on the context of the verse.
But this changing metric makes things easier than they used to be. But as I said, there will be another thread to discuss for the requirements, so we'll have to wait for that. Because this thing is still not finished
I don't understand what you were trying to say with this. I can make a system where characters who follow philosophy scale higher, I can also make a system where characters who follow math scale higher, neither of them are easier because they favor towards a certain things, it will not be easier just different.
A system where every character with more than 2 vowels in their name is tier 0 would be different, and it would be easier.
You can make statements that the system we have right now is easier or harder, but you would need valid proof for the claim. Something that hasn't come to light yet you can't make judgment on, as on paper it might sound easier but we still need to see it in practice, if it is somehow worse in practice then we can always make another revision and change the system to either a new one or the one we have now. No system will ever be perfect so why don't we push systems that make everyone happy rather than a select few?
Agnaa has already said that if a solution cannot be found for this, the right of veto should be used or different requirements should be introduced. But, I think it can be done and ridiculous wanks and chaos and assumptions can be avoided
I think you're misinterpreting what I said.
Lmao man, I was misunderstood you so much.
There will never stop being wanks and such, there will never be a perfect system for scaling, my take is a very common one from people who have no understanding of scaling but I try to make it more reasonable. Writing isn't meant for power scaling, that is obvious, so trying to make a system that is perfect to the standards of everyone is impossible by our human understanding, we as humans are biased so trying to make a system will always show our bias, it doesn't matter if you're team math or team philosophy, both are very flawed ways of scaling. Like I said before it is impossible for us to make a nonbiased system so the only option is to make the majority happy rather than the minority, and the majority from my research is philosophy, but with this new system it aims towards that team but also tries to give some to the math team, if anything I have said made any lick of sense.
anyone knowledgeable here on the verse that can answer my question?
If that's the approach you're taking, my view is that we don't really have to just have a system revolve around one or the other.
R>F argument is fine, if we treat it like us to our own books/movies then it makes sense, I think the beyond all dimensions is a low ball for it.
If that is true then I do not agree with that part, I do agree tier 0 should be for monads but the gap between High 1A and 0 Should be never ending, even if you threw in everything our brains have ever thought about it would still not close the gap between High 1A and 0.
A true neutral system could never happen, we can try to close the gap between both sides but one side would always get the shorter end of the stick, which would then bring more conflict ending in either one side being left behind or a revision to the system.
I don't truly understand what you mean by this.
same with this
agreed.
more on this statement, capping the system at 0 is a really good idea, it gets rid of the annoying tier 0 match ups you'll see everywhere and makes debating a lot more interesting then who can reach higher into tier 0, or even breaking the tiering system like those tiktok nerds say.
That's not the basis for it, and Ultima has directly rejected that approach.
That is essentially the idea.
I think we should at least try, rather than just giving into the bias.
It only lets series reach 1-A and above by being "more real/fundamental", and things similar to that. Mathematical cosmologies, and vague cosmologies, can't make that jump.
If a series does have something being more real/fundamental, but then says it's equivalent/inferior to some mathematical object (even pretty all-encompassing ones like absolute infinity, Type IV multiverses, and the like), that would be taken to imply that it's not ACTUALLY more real, and cause it to be given a lower rating.
I feel like making the jump more reachable would be the right fix then.
Yeah this just seems to be more of a punch at math scaling, if I'm taking what you're saying correctly that would mean any character that is above a fiction would also not be real, making said character scale nowhere, if that makes sense.
I see your point here, with the R>F difference not being like our own this makes zero sense, I think for it to make sense you would have to upgrade R>F to be like our own relationship to fiction. I agree with all the points you presented.
If I'm correct on the gap between 1A and High 1A being like R>F, you could change it to uncountable amounts of infinite difference, being no amount of stacks of infinity could reach it, allowing math scaling to be able to make that jump to High 1A.
Which seems pretty dumb, but it's hard to get into specifics since Ultima doesn't want to talk about it yet.
Yeah, and?
Or let's stack everything below Tier 0 and keep Tier 0 in the baseline.
This take is kind of bad, just makes more conflict with "Your verse doesn't have this so my verse scales higher" arguments. Having more tiers than the amount the tiering system already has will just cause a huge mess of scaling. The ideal state is to find where these concepts can coexist.
Why?
honestly I always thought 001 Swann's Proposal was supposed to be the supreme being of the verse
You could read the conversation we had a couple hours ago about the problems with the new system, but only they can answer that.
Yeah, I understood why he/she did it. I was asking if would it change the voting because if Firestorm does agree then it would be 7-2. Ending the first voting thing, if Agnaa does continue with his/her side of the argument for a second round of voting.
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That just his name in discord lol.
I'll keep that noted, thank you.
