The commoners thread: Discussing Ultima's "On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System"

[CloverDragon03]

If this passes, I’ll also need to re-examine Xenoblade. I know with the current stuff, its R>F would get axed, but I would like to take a more comprehensive look at it myself since I’ve played through the whole series and all (particularly 3, where Z is from)

 

[Blunt_Claw]

It's very strange to see Ultima currently on the back foot with the vote tally, even if I'm confident it'll turn around soon enough.

Anyways, if this does pass, what verses are gonna be upgraded first? Pokemon, Touhou, and Lord of the Rings have been talked about, but I'm curious as to what else is in the works.

It's currently a 4-4 tie (not counting Ultima).
I think the votes will start to swing once Antvasima gives his vote.

 

[Agnaa]

It's currently a 4-4 tie (not counting Ultima).
I think the votes will start to swing once Antvasima gives his vote.

No, it's 2 agree 3 disagree.

Ultima should be counted (there's literally no reason he shouldn't be), but only admins/bureaus have voting rights for these sorts of things.

Still, I think that's kinda bullshit, so I'd move my vote to agree if the broader staff base agreed with it (EDIT: "Broader staff base" meaning discussion mods, content mods, and calc group members).

 

[Phoenks]

Didn't FC/OC forbid all Tier 1 stuff? What happened to that.

That was lifted. We just have an approval/evaluation process now to avoid tier shit junk being spammed all over the site, like it was before the "purge."

But, yeah, unsure if you'd need me to explain but the VSBW system fails even harder when the people writing these cosmology blogs for their series are the authors themselves.

 

[Agnaa]

That was lifted. We just have an approval/evaluation process now to avoid tier shit junk being spammed all over the site, like it was before the "purge."

But, yeah, unsure if you'd need me to explain but the VSBW system fails even harder when the people writing these cosmology blogs for their series are the authors themselves.

Why would moving to this new system, where you simply need new buzzwords (platonic concepts, R>F differences, divine simplicity) to get the big tiers, help in any way?

 

[Ultima_Reality]

but only admins/bureaus have voting rights for these sorts of things.

Still, I think that's kinda bullshit, so I'd move my vote to agree if the broader staff base agreed with it.

Truly the commoner's hero.

That was lifted. We just have an approval/evaluation process now to avoid tier shit junk being spammed all over the site, like it was before the "purge."

But, yeah, unsure if you'd need me to explain but the VSBW system fails even harder when the people writing these cosmology blogs for their series are the authors themselves.

I imagine.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Lowkey tempted to ask for an invite I'm ngl.

We're mostly in the stage of posting bullshit because not a whole lot of research is happening rn, but sure, I can let you in if you want.

 

[Blunt_Claw]

No, it's 2 agree 3 disagree.

So IdiosyncraticLawyer's tally here is wrong?

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

So IdiosyncraticLawyer's tally here is wrong?

No, only the bolded names have voting rights, which is why Agnaa said 2-3.

 

[Blunt_Claw]

No, only the bolded names have voting rights, which is why Agnaa said 2-3.

I see.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

If we look ONLY at all staff with the right to vote (admins, thread mods, bureaucrats), then we get 10 for and 4 against this, as shown here.

I'm not sure dragging back all these staff to vote would be the best idea since they might not be keen on looking through the many, many pages and paragraphs of argument and reasoning just to see if a minor change to the original argument was made.

Thread Mods have no voting rights here.

 

[Eseseso]

Thread Mods have no voting rights here.

Ok, then let's take a look:

Agree​

Antvasima (Agrees as long as the new tiers have detailed requirements)​

Ultima_Reality (Thread Starter)​

DarkDragonMedeus (Agrees with 1-A being the tier for qualitative superiorities to dimensionality, initially neutral on R>F being 1-A by default before eventually agreeing with it too)​

DarkGrath (Agreed with everything at first, failed to change her mind after hearing the counters)​

Elizhaa (Agrees with everything)​

Sir_Ovens (Agrees with everything)​

Andytrenom (Agrees with 1-A being the tier for qualitative superiorities to dimensionality, disagrees with R>F being 1-A by default)​

Everything12 (Agrees with everything)​

​

Disagree​

DontTalkDT (Thinks the notion of composite hierarchies already addresses Ultima's concerns regarding R>F equalization)​

Agnaa (Disagrees with everything)​

Qawsedf234 (Thinks it's unnecessary to create a new system aimed at categorizing all of fiction effectively, as such is impossible)​

​

Yeesh... I knew this vote would end up lopsided, but this is an absolute slaughter in favor of Ultima.


So that's 3 against and 8 for.

 

[Agnaa]

I'm not sure dragging back all these staff to vote would be the best idea since they might not be keen on looking through the many, many pages and paragraphs of argument and reasoning just to see if a minor change to the original argument was made.

I, personally, think that's bullshit, because Ultima prevented me from making any arguments in the thread for two months while those staff members voted.

If you can just decide which of your detractors are allowed to argue while 80% of staff vote, you can end up with something very lopsided, if you pick the person with the worse arguments to go first.

And they don't need to look through pages and paragraphs of argument; just the summaries that people made. I do think it's really lame that other people's summaries were so long, but it is what it is.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Hmm

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I'm not sure dragging back all these staff to vote would be the best idea since they might not be keen on looking through the many, many pages and paragraphs of argument and reasoning just to see if a minor change to the original argument was made.

Having people formally reaffirm their positions is important, also. You may think that the possibility of them changing minds is slim, but nevertheless a ceremonial is obviously needed because this probability is never 0. Winging it is obviously not the way to go.

 

[Eseseso]

I, personally, think that's bullshit, because Ultima prevented me from making any arguments in the thread for two months while those staff members voted.

If you can just decide which of your detractors are allowed to argue while 80% of staff vote, you can end up with something very lopsided, if you pick the person with the worse arguments to go first.

Why did Ultima prevent you from arguing for two months?

And they don't need to look through pages and paragraphs of argument; just the summaries that people made. I do think it's really lame that other people's summaries were so long, but it is what it is.

That's fair enough.

 

[Agnaa]

Why did Ultima prevent you from arguing for two months?

Because he wanted to focus on talking things out with DT alone.

 

[Eseseso]

Having people formally reaffirm their positions is important, also. You may think that the possibility of them changing minds is slim, but nevertheless a ceremonial is obviously needed because this probability is never 0. Winging it is obviously not the way to go.

I understand.

Plus I have literally zero power here, so I couldn't stop you if I wanted to.

Because he wanted to focus on talking things out with DT alone.

I see.

In that case I think you are right to want the voters to give reaffirmation, which Ultima seems to support, though I do think both you and Ultima should link the admins to the direct posts with the final summaries.

 

[Agnaa]

DT did so in the post pinging all staff.

 

[Kairach]

With the new tiering system will the Elder Scrolls lose tier 0? Also what tier will the Dark Tower verse be after this?

Can I get a statement or an answer on this, unless there's nobody knowledgeable on either of these verses in this discussion.

 

[G33kedzinx]

Can I get a statement or an answer on this, unless there's nobody knowledgeable on either of these verses in this discussion.

I’d also like to get an answer on that. Elder scrolls get shown barely little to no love on here.

 

[Genericstickman]

Huh.

Never knew Dio's killer was that strong.

clearly this means we'll have to see if Beyond qualifiers for the new R > F stuff so Dio can stall with 1-A plot armor

 

[deonment]

Can I get a statement or an answer on this, unless there's nobody knowledgeable on either of these verses in this discussion.

TES keeps its 0
Dark Tower is in a horrible state rn and would need a complete overhaul before people even begin to think about tiers

 

[Kairach]

TES keeps its 0
Dark Tower is in a horrible state rn and would need a complete overhaul before people even begin to think about tiers

Noted, I'm reading the series right now so I'll keep my eyes out for any threads for an overhaul on the verse.

 

[StekFence]

clearly this means we'll have to see if Beyond qualifiers for the new R > F stuff so Dio can stall with 1-A plot armor

Peak

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

Plus I have literally zero power here, so I couldn't stop you if I wanted to.

Depending on what happens, you might have some power soon.

 

[Eseseso]

Depending on what happens, you might have some power soon.

???

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

???

You'll see. In the meantime, read https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/dust-and-blood.

 

[Kairach]

You'll see. In the meantime, read https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/dust-and-blood.

got a tldr for that?

 

[Tanin_iver]

Having people formally reaffirm their positions is important, also. You may think that the possibility of them changing minds is slim, but nevertheless a ceremonial is obviously needed because this probability is never 0. Winging it is obviously not the way to go.

Agreed.

Also, could you clarify how stats like Lifting Strength, Speed as well as Acausality and cause and effect will be affected for 1-A or above characters with respect to baseline reality or lower realities. Also what about the cases where the higher reality has normal humans, then how will the stats be indexed with respect to baseline reality and the higher reality from where the humans originate.

 

[Agnaa]

Audibly laughed at this

Here's a simple proof of all the contradictions of this discussion:

 

[GarrixianXD]

Audibly laughed at this

Missed some shit. Ignore that.

 

[Agnaa]

Not at it being right/wrong, just about you saying "This is a simple proof of the contradictions" and posting an image of 20 equations.

 

[Iiliminal]

gokuverse level >>>>>> boundless and outerverse fodders

 

[GarrixianXD]

Not at it being right/wrong, just about you saying "This is a simple proof of the contradictions" and posting an image of 20 equations.

Still remember when I created this:

lim {x ==》2} (tan ((x/π+xπℤ)^-(sin^x(θ) + cos^x(θ))))(csc ((1/π+xπℤ)^-(e^xiπ)))(sec ((x/3π+xπℤ)^(e^iπ)))(cot ((1/xπ+xπℤ)^-((e^iθ + e^-iθ/x)^x + (e^iθ - e^-iθ/xi)^x)))

 

[VNova]

Still remember when I created this:

lim {x ==》2} (tan ((x/π+xπℤ)^-(sin^x(θ) + cos^x(θ))))(csc ((1/π+xπℤ)^-(e^xiπ)))(sec ((x/3π+xπℤ)^(e^iπ)))(cot ((1/xπ+xπℤ)^-((e^iθ + e^-iθ/x)^x + (e^iθ - e^-iθ/xi)^x)))

i aint readin allat

 

[Phoenks]

i aint readin allat

me neither

 

[marosuke]

Fiction has no consistency, applying everything could be useful for feedback People might find out some flaws in these system while attempting to upgrade on content revision. I have a feeling they might need something like a beta-test.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Fiction has no consistency, applying everything could be useful for feedback People might find out some flaws in these system while attempting to upgrade on content revision. I have a feeling they might need something like a beta-test.

Set theory isn't fiction honestly.

 

[Agnaa]

Set theory isn't fiction honestly.

I don't think that person was talking about your post.