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Btw, do you all agree with dc 1A?
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The commoners thread: Discussing Ultima's "On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System"
- Thread starter Iamunanimousinthat
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With the current tier system, no.
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Oh, I see? Btw that's just DC Main, Cosmology Scoot Snyder only. Mike Carey and Matheis didn't take part in this upgrade, what do you think bro?
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I already said it for crisis cosmology. There are 1-A expressions in Scott's works.
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It's true, Scoot and Morrison cosmology should be higher than 1C, especially since arrowverse has tier 1B.
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So Maya is High 1-A since she defines the entirety of that said framework as she is the embodiment of the Creator’s “Dream.” Matteis told me that Pralaya transcends Maya as she is the embodiment of the Illusion. God contains both his Dream and the Illusions.
Ha! Funny Guy!
Here is fine.
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He equates the Presence to the Magician. There’s no difference unless you’re talking about any version of the Presence other than Matteis or Carey.
presence block lvl
this guy negs presence
God (Seekers into the Mystery)
God is the central character of the graphic novel Seekers Into the Mystery, written by J.M DeMatteis. He is the ultimate reality and utmost source of all things, being the ocean of nothingness (And also of pure love) from which all of existence emanated, having been created so as to express...vsbattles.fandom.com
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So reality-fiction transcendence automatically bare minimum is outerversal yes?
is it possible to get SDBH higher now?
I was also wondering how will this effect Self reference engine. Lowered to high hyper+?
is it possible to get SDBH higher now?
I was also wondering how will this effect Self reference engine. Lowered to high hyper+?
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R>F isn't currently accepted for anything in DBH.
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I'm gonna take a shot every time someone makes a CRT to upgrade SDBH to 1-A via Beats World.
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dragon ball has a statement that says, "a land of heaven that transcends dimensions."
1-A dragon ball
1-A dragon ball
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Mofos be missing out on the real qualitative superiority in Dragon Ball.
Dragon Ball has R>F plus transcending dimensions, doesn't get more blatant than this.
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I was actually thinking about that but I believe VSBW doesn't consider beats world R > F
Huh maybe in future who knows
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So non-monad transduality is high 1-A now, if the verse has atleast 1 qualitative superiority relating to that? For example, a character that is "above all forms of reality and unreality" and "is neither real nor not real, is neither something nor nothing," transcending all such states, would be high 1-A in a verse with atleast 1 Reality>Fiction/Unreality transcendence, right? And then if that character is part of a hierarchy thats completely different from the R>F hierarchy it would be a High-1A hierarchy?
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Among all the other counters, doesn't Demigra and the likes threaten Beat's and other types of "real worlds" in Dragon Ball. That would be a major anti-feat in this new system.
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I suppose but if a character transcends themselves or have a specific ability, it's not a anti feat from my understanding of reality-fiction transcendence page
unless the qualifications for this also changes
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Question:
No concept of space and time at its highest interpretation is 1-A or Low 1-A?
No concept of space and time at its highest interpretation is 1-A or Low 1-A?
Agnaa
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Why couldn't you have multiple characters that are capable of affecting the collection of all possibilities?
It's changing.
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I think he was talking about the cosmologies and not of the characters themeselves
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Pretty sure Ultima is saying there can't be multiple characters who embody all possibilities, and not multiple characters who scale to all possibilities.
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One being in a verse can embody all possibility. Any other would be a contradiction and that said character would be High 1-A+ as opposed to multiple characters that can scale to High 1-A.
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Oh yeah this thing make sense. But if a cosmology is H1A+ can one or more characters scale to it?
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1-A supes lets go
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High 1-A+ is the framework of the entire verse that supports a Monadic system. This means if God is dreaming of everything then whoever scales completely to that “Dream” would be High 1-A+ due to embodying everything that Dream is.
This means you can not have multiple of those characters. So only one person would scale to the entirety of it, if it were a High 1-A+ structure.
Agnaa
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Scaling to =/= embodying.
And there's no fundamental limit on how many distinct characters embody something (i.e. individual concepts/timelines).
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How Ultimate describes implies that there would be one High 1-A+. The analogy was weird but the idea was there.
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Ok, thank you
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Bump to this question, since I know these characters can deviate or interact from the script the goddess lay as well in certain ways. If that relates to the absorbing her mana thing
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If I understand right, I think the anti-feat argument comes from the idea that they reach that level of power without external assistance from the goddess in question or characters like her.
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I see, well they do use her mana to reach the realm where she resides, just still not on her level of power yet. I was thinking it had to do with interacting with the mana in the first place
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How does this work if the entire verse is lets say a single universe, and there exists a valid tier 0? Does scaling to the universe make you H1A+?
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The needed context for that as always to follow the route that Ultimate implemented. Like does it have R>F and the structures supporting some sort of framework that surpasses dimensionality and mathematics and contains all possibilities? If a “Universe” per se does have all that then you could argue for it.
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How would we treat universes with short-cuts/passages (not different/alternative dimensions) that allow for FTL and/or time travel?
For example, warp space isn't an alternate universe, but it's mostly separate to the regular 3/4D universe, and vessels can 'drop' in and out of it (the same terminology used for Hyperspace travel in Star Wars, and Vortex travel in Doctor Who) for casual travel across decades and galaxies.
For example, warp space isn't an alternate universe, but it's mostly separate to the regular 3/4D universe, and vessels can 'drop' in and out of it (the same terminology used for Hyperspace travel in Star Wars, and Vortex travel in Doctor Who) for casual travel across decades and galaxies.
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That sounds a bit unrelated to this whole revision, ngl.
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It plays into a related question about complex dimensional/multiversal spaces (specifically from one of the largest, and most diverse cosmologies in all of fiction) that I'm going to ask later.
Plus, this is general discussion thread, and people have been asking about similarly unrelated topics for like the past 50 pages.
Plus, this is general discussion thread, and people have been asking about similarly unrelated topics for like the past 50 pages.
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Agnaa
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Eh, those topics have seemed relevant to things that are plausibly changing under Ultima's proposed revisions.
But if this will play into something you'll ask later, go ahead.
But if this will play into something you'll ask later, go ahead.
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It'll depend a lot on the specifications of the work itself.
Normally, warp spaces seem to be depicted as different spaces in which relativistic laws do not apply. If the laws of physics follow spatial continuity, it could be that a different spatial dimension might follow different rules that are different from the conventional space we interact with. If not, it might be possible to have some space regions that do not follow relativistic laws.
In the case of warp spaces that are like a different space with different laws of physics, it might be considered an extra spatial dimension, as if it were a parallel dimension that follows different rules. If they are just an odd region of regular space, it might all be considered the same conventional 4D space-time.
I know that at least Marvel has a very popular scene that explains hyperspace as being a higher-dimensional plane in a universe that allows for movement without taking into account relativistic laws.
The tiering for affecting the universe will all depend on how much of the universe is affected. Normally, I suppose we only assume the portion of the universe that is directly interacted with by the characters is affected, so it would need a mention that the hyperspace was affected in order to work. I for sure know that some fiction really fluctuates when inner-pocket spaces function or not, counting to "universal destruction.".
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It's unbelievable how we're this far into the thread, with people finally posting their summaries, and DT is still straw-manning and ignoring the core aspects of Ultima's arguments.
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