- 2,151
- 2,107
Yeah, a perfect example the world of forms should probably be 1-A, it's essentially perfect space.
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Outerversal Aslan enjoyers can breathe againIn the same way lasers are Lightspeed, I suppose. As in, a verse that represents the full gamut of the original Theory of Forms is certainly 1-A (And 0) under the proposals, but fiction so rarely depicts it correctly that "Platonic" might as well be of the same value as "laser," feat-wise.
He'd already be 1-A+. Plus their platonism is a little too vague to qualify for legit one. If there's gonna be strict standards surrounding it I wouldn't use something like "it's just like in plato".Outerversal Aslan enjoyers can breathe again
This won't stop people from finding a shred of the smallest resemblance to a Theory of Forms to celebrate their verse being Tier 1 however.In the same way lasers are Lightspeed, I suppose. As in, a verse that represents the full gamut of the original Theory of Forms is certainly 1-A (And 0) under the proposals, but fiction so rarely depicts it correctly that "Platonic" might as well be of the same value as "laser," feat-wise.
Yeah they are bro trustNo, they are not.
I have no love for blind faith.Yeah they are bro trust
Then it has no love for you.I have no love for blind faith.
Stop it. This is off-topic and mocking.Then it has no love for you.
You mocking me is what's off-topic.Platonic Forms are obviously a topic of interest for this discussion, it's not exactly off-topic.
Eh… it should overtake the second most viewed, but probably not the first, seeing as the thread will likely be over soon.Ultima's thread is now the third-most viewed staff discussion in site history and is on track to become the most viewed.
Staff Discussion
Discussions regarding important wiki projects, policy or explanation page revisions and controversial revisions. Board activity is allowed for VS Battles wiki staff and highly trusted members only, unless stated otherwise. Derailing is heavily discouraged.vsbattles.com
As a moderator who has to constantly deal with derailing, I've become easily irked by even the slightest hint of such and tend to respond in the most deadpan of ways.I was never mocking you in the first place. You responded to an obviously sarcastic post about Platonic Forms being 1-A as though it wasn't sarcasm, so I responded with further sarcasm. Yeah, I could've just said "u right I was just joking" but I felt it was obvious enough.
"Conceding out of good will" isn't something I would want Ultima to do, as I wholeheartedly agree with all of his points. That being said, the pace at which this thread racks up views will likely let it overtake the Roshi thread too, which I know from repeatedly watching its progress, as Ultima hasn't talked with Agnaa yet.Eh… it should overtake the second most viewed, but probably not the first, seeing as the thread will likely be over soon.
For one thing, the current tally is so absurdly lopsided in Ultima’s favor, it’s not even funny.
For another thing, the few staff who haven’t voted (Armorchompy, Lordtracer, KLOL) seem very much on Ultima’s side and are upvoting all his arguments, so it’s not like the tides will turn in favor of the opposition.
Lastly, nothing new has been added amongst the most recent posts, as they’ve followed an exclusive pattern of [DT creates a series of “gotcha” arguments proving R>F isn’t beyond dimensionality, and Ultima points out how some of those examples don’t even follow the current standards for R>F, so the counter-examples hold little weight].
At this point, it’s a matter of how much Ultima’s willing to compromise and concede out of good will, because he has enough to push everything through right now. I think the opposition should move from trying to debunk Ultima’s greater arguments to appealing to him for as many concessions as possible.
That's understandable, I imagine that sort of thing would be annoying if it was a genuine argument someone was making, but I thought my use of emojis was what indicated the sarcasm. I've genuinely never seen anyone use to convey a serious tone... but yeah, either way, I'm not trying to start any fights here.As a moderator who has to constantly deal with derailing, I've become easily irked by even the slightest hint of such and tend to respond in the most deadpan of ways.
I agree that there isn't any reason for Ultima to try and compromise here. He's refuted all of DT's arguments by this point and a lot of DT's arguments are essentially the same few arguments being repeated over and over, something which Ultima himself even points out. I'm just wondering how much longer the thread is going to last and whether or not Agnaa's arguments will be different here."Conceding out of good will" isn't something I would want Ultima to do, as I wholeheartedly agree with all of his points. That being said, the pace at which this thread racks up views will likely let it overtake the Roshi thread too, which I know from repeatedly watching its progress, as Ultima hasn't talked with Agnaa yet.
I'm actually more surprised by how high Roshi's Feat is. I wonder which revision could surpass that... If not even such a drastic revision in the Tiering system can...Ultima's thread is now the third-most viewed staff discussion in site history and is on track to become the most viewed.
Staff Discussion
Discussions regarding important wiki projects, policy or explanation page revisions and controversial revisions. Board activity is allowed for VS Battles wiki staff and highly trusted members only, unless stated otherwise. Derailing is heavily discouraged.vsbattles.com
That debate on Discord was about the topic of whether fiction is absolute nothingness or not. I've long shaved that off my arguments, though, since they refined a bit further as the thread progressed.@Ultima_Reality What does Agnaa mean here?
On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System
I do not care about this at all, assuming that it's a purely lexical change with nothing else supplanting the old term. "All" is so extremely broad that I do not support this. I don't really care too much, there's only 89 pages here. Which isn't so few that I'm certain, nor is it so many that I...vsbattles.com
How do you plan on talking with Agnaa once your debate with DT subsides?That debate on Discord was about the topic on whether fiction is absolute nothingness or not. I've long shaved that off my arguments, though, since they refined further as the thread progressed.
I will personally notify him once DT and I are done, and then we talk. That's about it.How do you plan on talking with Agnaa once your debate with DT subsides?
What do you expect to happen then?I will personally notify him once DT and I are done, and then we talk. That's about it.
God only knows. I'll see if Agnaa has anything to add that DontTalk hasn't already said. Regardless of whether he does or not, we'll eventually just wrap it up and cast it to the votes.What do you expect to happen then?
By ProfectusInfinity's tally, the support you have is overwhelming.God only knows. I'll see if Agnaa has anything to add that DontTalk hasn't already said. Regardless of whether he does or not, we'll eventually just wrap it up and cast it to the votes.
I just thought I'd create a tally of the current progress, if no one minds.
Agree
Antvasima (Agrees as long as the new tiers have detailed requirements)
Ultima_Reality (Thread Starter)
DarkDragonMedeus (Agrees with 1-A being the tier for qualitative superiorities to dimensionality, initially neutral on R>F being 1-A by default before eventually agreeing with it too)
DarkGrath (Agreed with everything at first, failed to change her mind after hearing the counters)
Elizhaa (Agrees with everything)
Sir_Ovens (Agrees with everything)
Andytrenom (Agrees with 1-A being the tier for qualitative superiorities to dimensionality, disagrees with R>F being 1-A by default)
Everything12 (Agrees with everything)
Planck69 (Agrees with everything)
CrimsonStarFallen (Agrees with everything)
Theglassman12 (Agrees with everything)
IdiosyncraticLawyer (Thinks productive changes should result from the CRT, defends all of Ultima's points)
Phoenks (Agrees with everything)
Executor_N0 (Agrees that Ultima's post reveals how the current system fails to effectively encompass all of fiction)
CloverDragon03 (Agrees with everything)
Neutral
Crabwhale (Ain't reading allat)
KLOL506 (Asked some questions, hasn't voted himself)
AbaddonTheDisappointment (Asked some questions, hasn't voted himself)
Disagree
DontTalkDT (Thinks the notion of composite hierarchies already addresses Ultima's concerns regarding R>F equalization)
Agnaa (Disagrees with everything)
Qawsedf234 (Thinks it's unnecessary to create a new system aimed at categorizing all of fiction effectively, as such is impossible)
Deagonx (R>F is simply better off likened to a single dimensional jump than something beyond dimensional scale)
Yeesh... I knew this vote would end up lopsided, but this is an absolute slaughter in favor of Ultima.
I'm certainly glad. I became disillusioned into thinking there was no possibility of change whatsoever, at one point.By ProfectusInfinity's tally, the support you have is overwhelming.
Yeah the fact your post started as a sort of rant/critique and it evolved into such a long discussion about changing the tiering system was funny.I'm certainly glad. I became disillusioned into thinking there was no possibility of change whatsoever, at one point.Also partly the reason I became so inactive for a while.
The first thing is right, the second is wrong.The existence of SCP 3812 itself guarantee High 1-A, I'm sure overwatch SCP canon will be tier 0.
SCP won't be tier 0 anymore? Why?The first thing is right, the second is wrong.
what does this get?
Feat: a book absorb people into a story and force them to follow the plot.
The reader can communicate with the real characters who were trapped .
To simplify, Tier 0 is being reserved for characters with no attributes or distinction whatsoever, and nothing in SCP currently fits that label.SCP won't be tier 0 anymore? Why?
Y'all would have to elaborate more on that cuz I don't get it. Make a page explaining Tier 0 for dummies when time comes.
My reaction to that information (I'm literally the volcano head guy)here you go buddyApeiron - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.orgWuji (philosophy) - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.orgDivine simplicity - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.orgApophatic theology - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.orgŚūnyatā - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.orgGoku - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
It's very easy to understand.Y'all would have to elaborate more on that cuz I don't get it. Make a page explaining Tier 0 for dummies when time comes.
Bro Tier 0 just is Omnipotence. No point in overcomplicating it.It's very easy to understand.
Let me ask you a question, do you think God is omnipotent?
If you say yes. Then you are wrong, God isn't omnipotent. He is beyond omnipotent.
"That- doesn't makes any sense isn't it?"
Yes, you are right. In the beginning- if you can even makes sense of God, then it is not God.
There was a saying in Daoism, "If you understand the Dao, then it is not Dao." God never never was meant to be understood, because he is beyond the attributes of "understanding".
And because "Omnipotent" is an attribute, a concept. And you cannot attributes any concept to God, because he is completely beyond any attributes and concept.
God is not all-knowing, he is not omnipotent neither he is all-mighty.
Because he is beyond such concepts.
No amount of greatest and marvelous words in any languages can describe God.
Because he will never be described by anyone or even anything, even the word "God" itself is not truly "Him". Because "God" is an attribute, and in truth "He" is beyond "God".
Tldr, God is beyond any concept. And can't be described by any concept.
And that how you reach tier 0.
Kek, no need for negative theology then?Bro Tier 0 just is Omnipotence. No point in overcomplicating it.
A form of negative theology is embedded into the definition of Tier 0 because a being with all the properties I've listed (Undifferentiated, Uncaused, Unconditioned, etc) would indeed not be capable of being defined or described in direct fashion (Save by analogy, like I explained on the thread), but I think calling it "beyond omnipotence" is silly. I'd moreso define that state as omnipotence.Kek, no need for negative theology then?