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The commoners thread: Discussing Ultima's "On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System"

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Agnaa said:
All evaluating staff for these high-tier things land within a certain range of not being completely insane. Out of the ~15 regular evaluating staff for high tiers we've had over the last ~7 years, I think he's in the 20% least-strict.
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Agnaa we all know you're pulling random numbers. Ultima qualitatively answered your question pretty well in the previous discussion thread. He won fair and triangle let him have the lemonlight.
 
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Chaotic_Existentialist said:
Transformers could've been tier 0, if they posited their shit correctly. They were actually cooking with Ein Sof, but it has composition so its not Tier 0
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How well is Ein Sof described? Ultimate consider Ein Sof 0 but you gotta have some basis and not randomly invoke names especially if it's not fitting the idea that Ein Sof isn't the most powerful thing in their verse.

If you have scans I would love to check them.
 
Despite my ambitions, my every act driven by malice, spite, or naked greed, the almighty Matrix is prepared to receive me into the fold. Its purity is blinding, wondrous. A perfect realm of Truth and
Beauty. And upon my return, I will become one with the AllSpark, and it with me. In return for relinquishing my individuality I will once again assimilate into its
infinitude, attaining omniscience and omnipresence. I am giddy with the prospect of uniting with such
a force.
And all it will cost me is my individualism.
Is attaining infinity worth my very soul? Below me I can see myself in the realm of the Kingdom... a strangely strobing Spark battling with the insolent Rattrap, who wrestles to control my energized life-force using a Spark Extractor. Their grappling seems so petty from here. The stakes
pathetically minute.
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If this is how it's being described then 0 can be in a discussion.
 
VeryGoofyToddler said:
How well is Ein Sof described? Ultimate consider Ein Sof 0 but you gotta have some basis and not randomly invoke names especially if it's not fitting the idea that Ein Sof isn't the most powerful thing in their verse.

If you have scans I would love to check them.
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image.png

Basic context here is that the character is traversing the tree of life, and is reaching the crown, highest point in the kabbalah, uniting with the source of all beings

But as I said, the verse posits it incorrectiy as it has spatial properties and composition
 
Agnaa said:
You say that as if Ultima has a reputation for being ultra-strict in regards to high-tier beings.
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It is wild to me that anyone thinks this.

Agnaa said:
In comparison to some battleboarders sure he's strict. But things like "He's rejected a few upgrade attempts!" and "He once rejected a tier 0 upgrade for a verse he liked!" aren't special, they're basic sanity checks.
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Right, by this metric "ultra-strict" can basically be used to describe anyone who does not blindly rubber stamp any and all upgrades.
 
Deagonx said:
Right, by this metric "ultra-strict" can basically be used to describe anyone who does not blindly rubber stamp any and all upgrades.
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Tell me Deagon, what verse do you even like? Is there any verse where you're willing to let even the slightest bit of anti-feat slide for an upgrade? Like I've never seen you agree to any upgrade ever and you only make downgrade crts. I'm not trying to be rude or anything. Just curious.
 
Tdjwo said:
Tell me Deagon, what verse do you even like? Is there any verse where you're willing to let even the slightest bit of anti-feat slide for an upgrade? Like I've never seen you agree to any upgrade ever and you only make downgrade crts. I'm not trying to be rude or anything. Just curious.
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This attitude, of thinking people let anti-feats slide for verses they like, is exactly the issue.

I'm not Deagon ofc, but I'd say I care more about anti-feats for verses I like, since I'm more invested in them getting indexed properly. I make writeups like this and this and this out of love.
 
Agnaa said:
This attitude, of thinking people let anti-feats slide for verses they like, is exactly the issue.

I'm not Deagon ofc, but I'd say I care more about anti-feats for verses I like, since I'm more invested in them getting indexed properly. I make writeups like this and this and this out of love.
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I mean, I do think it's normal to allow a lil bit if bias for your fav verse when it comes to extremely minor antifeats that could be dismissed. Maybe It's just me.
 
I was joking earlier about Ultima being strict. However, clearly, when anti-feats are there can be discussion made for those rather than berate Ultima as someone whose lenient. That just gives off the wrong impression that he's an easy person to sway, which may come off as the wrong rub to some people. So I rather, go with having a little bias and less prejudice toward the source material than this notion of being concretely strict with everything that goes nowhere. That's my two cents.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
Really it just comes down to personal scaling philosophies imo. Like at the end of the day, powerscaling is supposed to be - get this - fun
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This is really ironic because of the portion of people who believe in the doctrine of “strictness” that a little sway would be ultimately a catalyst to them. So they just take the fun out of power scaling because they think everything needs to be reviewed down to the nook and cranny.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
I mean people find enjoyment in striving for what they believe to be the most accurate versions of these characters' stats and abilities. But obviously, yeah, it becomes a drag when it gets to the point of taking the fun out of it
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I mean it goes both ways especially if we're being too open to giving ratings that are not supported by source material. However, there are some clear, for lack of better words, “party poopers” in the scaling community. nudge nudge Agnaa.
 
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Tdjwo said:
Tell me Deagon, what verse do you even like?
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I'm a big fan of DC, I'm also a big fan of Type-Moon and Re:Zero.

Tdjwo said:
Is there any verse where you're willing to let even the slightest bit of anti-feat slide for an upgrade?
Click to expand...
Tdjwo said:
I mean, I do think it's normal to allow a lil bit if bias for your fav verse when it comes to extremely minor antifeats that could be dismissed. Maybe It's just me.
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Antifeats rarely are what drive a downgrade. Most often it's that the reasoning for the upgrade was bad or the evidence doesn't actually say what it's made out to say in the profiles.
 
VeryGoofyToddler said:
I mean it goes both ways especially if we're being too open to giving ratings that are not supported by source material. However, there are some clear, for lack of better words, “party poopers” in the scaling community. nudge nudge Agnaa.
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You clearly haven't read my dissertation on which fictional vampires would regenerate from circumcision.
 
Ultima_Reality said:
Well? Which ones?
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Well, to give a quick summary....

There's generally a few camps of regeneration mechanisms in fiction:
  1. Regeneration to point of acquisition. Only works if a character was circumcised after becoming a vampire.
  2. Regeneration to personal mental ideal. Could work, depending on whether the character envisions themselves circumcised or not.
  3. Regeneration to abstract ideal. Generally assigned by the powers in the setting to something considered "perfect health". Similarly, largely depends on the originating entity/process' view on circumcision.
While we can make educated guesses, there are almost no cases where one can make a slam-dunk argument that a circumcision will be undone.

Of course there's caveats. Some characters can intentionally suppress their regeneration, and so could plausibly maintain a circumcision as long as they like regardless of the verse's other mechanics.

I'll leave the generation of the complete list as an exercise for the reader.
Tdjwo said:
Depends on what type of blade is used to cut the foreskin.
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Also true!
 
Agnaa said:
Well, to give a quick summary....

There's generally a few camps of regeneration mechanisms in fiction:
  1. Regeneration to point of acquisition. Only works if a character was circumcised after becoming a vampire.
  2. Regeneration to personal mental ideal. Could work, depending on whether the character envisions themselves circumcised or not.
  3. Regeneration to abstract ideal. Generally assigned by the powers in the setting to something considered "perfect health". Similarly, largely depends on the originating entity/process' view on circumcision.
While we can make educated guesses, there are almost no cases where one can make a slam-dunk argument that a circumcision will be undone.

Of course there's caveats. Some characters can intentionally suppress their regeneration, and so could plausibly maintain a circumcision as long as they like regardless of the verse's other mechanics.

I'll leave the generation of the complete list as an exercise for the reader.
Click to expand...
You have a weird kink. Also, touch grass, smell some air, and perhaps swim. So you'll loosen up to let some anti-feats slide by.

Also, what would be the anti-feat for regenerations from circumcision for Vampyres?
 
Agnaa said:
Well, to give a quick summary....

There's generally a few camps of regeneration mechanisms in fiction:
  1. Regeneration to point of acquisition. Only works if a character was circumcised after becoming a vampire.
  2. Regeneration to personal mental ideal. Could work, depending on whether the character envisions themselves circumcised or not.
  3. Regeneration to abstract ideal. Generally assigned by the powers in the setting to something considered "perfect health". Similarly, largely depends on the originating entity/process' view on circumcision.
While we can make educated guesses, there are almost no cases where one can make a slam-dunk argument that a circumcision will be undone.

Of course there's caveats. Some characters can intentionally suppress their regeneration, and so could plausibly maintain a circumcision as long as they like regardless of the verse's other mechanics.
Click to expand...
Fascinating.
 
VeryGoofyToddler said:
Ultima: Ignores my blatant attempts to defend his reputation.

Also Ultima: Wants to know if vampires can regenerate from circumcision.
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By the way, I ignored them because I don't take umbrage at any of the insinuations above, really. I class myself as just scaling wherever my reasoning leads me, but I am obviously not infallible, and I have no problem with the idea of there being other people around to keep my biases in check.

Nay-sayers are ultimately good for that.
 
Ultima_Reality said:
By the way, I ignored them because I don't take umbrage at any of the insinuations above, really. I class myself as just scaling wherever my reasoning leads me, but I am obviously not infallible, and I have no problem with the idea of there being other people around to keep my biases in check.

Nay-sayers are ultimately good for that.
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Don't worry I was trying to be funny hence the user(Obviously the joke fell flat). It wasn't meant to be serious though if anything your views are a bit “out of the box” if you will. I think most of us enjoy that within the expectation of a few, we’ll just leave their names out but they know who they are and they're party poopers.
 
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