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The commoners thread: Discussing Ultima's "On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System"

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But the degree at which they use it or have access to it depends, it's just like how everything is a part of the ultimate reality but that is not to say it's identical to the ultimate reality.
tier 0 beings are indivisible right? So any use of their powers that aren't tier 0 would be a contradiction to that being being(?) tier 0
 
the root not being tier 0/being tier 0 was discussed here
Brother christ this is so bad
tier 0 beings are indivisible right? So any use of their powers that aren't tier 0 would be a contradiction to that being being(?) tier 0
Nope, I don't know if emanationism is used for Tier 0 but supposing it is.

Everything is a weaker reflection of the totality of the ultimate reality, the analogy of the sun illuminating what it does is the easiest example for this. Everything receives the light of the ultimate reality, albeit it can depend to what extent are you closer to being a direct emanation of the ultimate reality.

An example of this is the distinction between magecraft and magic in the nasuverse, whereby magic is a direct emanation of the Swirl of the root but magecraft isn't but in the grand scheme of things they're all emanations of the same ultimate reality.
 
Brother christ this is so bad

Nope, I don't know if emanationism is used for Tier 0 but supposing it is.

Everything is a weaker reflection of the totality of the ultimate reality, the analogy of the sun illuminating what it does is the easiest example for this. Everything receives the light of the ultimate reality, albeit it can depend to what extent are you closer to being a direct emanation of the ultimate reality.

An example of this is the distinction between magecraft and magic in the nasuverse, whereby magic is a direct emanation of the Swirl of the root but magecraft isn't but in the grand scheme of things they're all emanations of the same ultimate reality.
I feel like the only appropriate response to this is "touch grass", but I appreciate you took the time to explain it.
 


do?

Aoko: Huh, I didn't say? To get revenge on me and to touch the Root. You remember that talk about the Whirl of the Root, don't you?

Soujuurou: ....Was that the source of magecraft?

Aoko: Yes, and also our final objective. The Whirl of the Root is position where all knowledge is recorded, and all things are determined. If you can look, touch, understand it, even the word "impossible" can be remade. It has many names in legends, but it's basically the position where God is.

Soujuurou: By God, you don't mean the 8 million kami?

Aoko: It's because you say things like that sometimes that makes you troublesome. I mean, there are gods in every form, but I’m talking about the big underlying assumption that decided that.”

That is the quote from a novel named Mahoutsukai No Yoru

I added it to my outdated cosmology blog back then since it did seems important to take notes related to the Root and all
Why would you take Aoko's explanation over Shiki's?
 
Why would you take Aoko's explanation over Shiki's?
I'm pretty sure Aoko saying "position where God is" is only a metaphor. Shiki Ryougi is the only person to experience the Swirl of the root and she just calls it nothingness.

In that same explanation Aoko gives, she says she doesn't know what happens to people who touch it because they never come back and ends up only making hypotheticals as an explanation.
 
I'm pretty sure Aoko saying "position where God is" is only a metaphor. Shiki Ryougi is the only person to experience the Swirl of the root and she just calls it nothingness.

In that same explanation Aoko gives, she says she doesn't know what happens to people who touch it because they never come back and ends up only making hypotheticals as an explanation.
The general quote itself just uses the swirl as a general term for what theology labels as god, not literally god itself from what im seeing
 
The fact he was able to create a device that was able to interact with a higher reality alone is a major anti-feat, that it is able to swap the hierarchy between higher and lower realities is an absolutely massive one. That he was able to come up with this system with his own intelligence would be impossible if it was true higher reality, never mind that the power used to perform this hierarchy switch is simply the magoi of a lower reality, which should not be equal to a higher reality. Unless we have proof a higher reality being directly gave him this knowledge and boosted the power used for the palace to function it wouldn't be enough to counter such massive anti-feats.
The sacred palace was made through the power of ll Ilah a higher being and Solomon another higher being gave Ugo the ability to manipulate ll Ilah's power.
 
The general quote itself just uses the swirl as a general term for what theology labels as god, not literally god itself from what im seeing
Probably not because she goes on to say there's no evidence for Gods actually being there in plural, but this is what happens when you don't read the evidence you use to infer something, besides Ryougi who actually experiences the root says it's nothing.
What? Aint no way bro was yapping the entire time😂
The Good, the bad, the nasuverse fandom.
 
Honestly no point in arguing with anyone here. Just wait for the crt to come out. It's crazy when ppl who have zero knowledge on a verse debate about it. Even Ultima recognizes the root as one of the most consistent tier 0 being but oh well.
 
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In Persona (Persona 2 I think) it's said in some form humanity has the potential to surpass the collective unconsciousness as well.
This was never outright stated. Loosely implied by Philemon and Nyarlathotep being the embodiments of it and being surpassable, but thats about it.

Dont think I have to explain that it doesnt extend to the axiom
 
Honestly no point in arguing with anyone here. Just wait for the crt to come out. It's crazy when ppl who have zero knowledge on a verse debate about it. Even Ultima recognizes the root as one of the most consistent tier 0 being but oh well.
You say that as if Ultima has a reputation for being ultra-strict in regards to high-tier beings.

lol
 
You say that as if Ultima has a reputation for being ultra-strict in regards to high-tier beings.
I've seen Ultima outrightly deny several high tiers from reaching a certain level. Heck, even he used to disagree with the Root reaching High 1A before he became enlightened.
That reminds me our lord and saviour, Deagonx, would be here to definitely "help" Nasuverse reach tier 0. Man I really forgot he still existed. How am I gonna keep my sanity once the tier 0 Root thread releases?😒
 
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See I have nothing to add, but I am very strict myself when it comes to tiering and I can say Ultima is on my level of strictness, if not above. It's just I'm right and he's wrong in most things we argue over.
 
Didn't expect that to be controversial, even he agreed with it xd

All evaluating staff for these high-tier things land within a certain range of not being completely insane. Out of the ~15 regular evaluating staff for high tiers we've had over the last ~7 years, I think he's in the 20% least-strict.

In comparison to some battleboarders sure he's strict. But things like "He's rejected a few upgrade attempts!" and "He once rejected a tier 0 upgrade for a verse he liked!" aren't special, they're basic sanity checks.
 
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