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The commoners thread: Discussing Ultima's "On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System"

The fact he was able to create a device that was able to interact with a higher reality alone is a major anti-feat, that it is able to swap the hierarchy between higher and lower realities is an absolutely massive one. That he was able to come up with this system with his own intelligence would be impossible if it was true higher reality, never mind that the power used to perform this hierarchy switch is simply the magoi of a lower reality, which should not be equal to a higher reality. Unless we have proof a higher reality being directly gave him this knowledge and boosted the power used for the palace to function it wouldn't be enough to counter such massive anti-feats.
 
Well it seems that essentially all the major staffs that count towards these kind of revisions (Administrators/Bureaucrats) all seem to agree on Option 4. So does that mean that the discussion is completed then ?
 
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Everything12 said:
The fact he was able to create a device that was able to interact with a higher reality alone is a major anti-feat, that it is able to swap the hierarchy between higher and lower realities is an absolutely massive one. That he was able to come up with this system with his own intelligence would be impossible if it was true higher reality, never mind that the power used to perform this hierarchy switch is simply the magoi of a lower reality, which should not be equal to a higher reality. Unless we have proof a higher reality being directly gave him this knowledge and boosted the power used for the palace to function it wouldn't be enough to counter such massive anti-feats.
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Nah.
 
Phoenks said:
You had months!
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BLAME THE CAT!

BestMGQScalerEver said:
Nah.
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main-qimg-ee77d2ffdb865818fa3cb449f8c29e33-lq
 
Actually I had a question and thought it would be worth asking here, so Ultima's response would be public
Is tier 0 by necessity unchanging? Like do we consider only absolutus/divine simplicity and aphophasis Tier 0? Because there are ideas like self-determinancy that are beyond the modes of possibility and impossibility but arent as high as absolutus(mostly because self-determinancy is evolving into the absolutus), but if being unchanging is a requirement for tier 0 then it wouldnt qualify obviously
 
Chaotic_Existentialist said:
Actually I had a question and thought it would be worth asking here, so Ultima's response would be public
Is tier 0 by necessity unchanging?
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Yeah, since in transcending all multiplicity whatsoever it also transcends any notion of a succession of states, and also whatever could condition such a succession.
 
Chaotic_Existentialist said:
The pillars are indivisible, they're multiple entities sharing the same essence, akin to Amaranth from TES.
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i think the problem is that the pillars are fundamentally concepts and therefore can be “qualitatively distinguished” while the new tier 0 is for characters that are beyond all forms of category/quality if i understand correctly
 
Iiliminal said:
i think the problem is that the pillars are fundamentally concepts and therefore can be “qualitatively distinguished” while the new tier 0 is for characters that are beyond all forms of category/quality if i understand correctly
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Depends on what this "They are concepts" entails. If the pillars are all just the same undifferentiated "concept" then that's not inherently an issue, given robust enough statements. Overall boils down to the description given to them rather than the name they're called by.
 
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The Pillars are infinite and eternal — they have always continuously existed, for nothing else could have ever created them. They precede any form of duality or polarity, such as Space and Time; Light and Dark; Existence and Nonexistence; Reality and Unreality. They are absolute, or infinite in power, for there is nothing to limit, restrict, restrain, confine, disturb or condition them – they are subject to no other power, for there is no other power. The Pillars are so fundamentally important to the stability of existence, that if even one of them were missing, everything below them, including all realities and their inhabitants, would collapse and cease to be. It is just as removing a single pillar from a temple would topple the entire structure, as they are the reality taken form; the very core of the many worlds that coexist together.
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This sounds like 0. The only problem I have is where the description of “one of them “ is being applied. Given that it only takes one to collapse all things, it probably is just trying to denote that the “Pillars” are just one unified being but classify as “gods” beyond all distinction and notion. Essentially, if they all represent the “concept itself” then each of them is just a metaphysical part that has no separation from the other.

Kind of, sort of answer here when they distinguish that Pillar and Pillar are just one thing:

Discerning the nature of the Pillars themselves is nearly impossible to lesser beings. A mortal mind is naturally averse to such knowledge, and when confronted by it, will degenerate out of failure to comprehend it. To understand the Pillars is to understand the truth of reality itself, which shatters the common ego. I, among few others, stand as an exception, though due to extraordinary circumstances — and certainly not without grave cost. I shall nonetheless attempt to explain all that I can without bringing harm unto any soul reading this.

The Pillars, so-named for their role of holding everything together, are what one would deem "The Powers That Be". They are the personifications of concepts, and thus are all-encompassing. If something can be thought of, there is a concept for it, by the merit of its formulation in the mind. A concept is the purest, most fundamental state of an idea, and cannot be reduced or fractured. The Pillars, being concepts in themselves, therefore cannot be weakened or destroyed. Wherever a certain concept may have influence, so too does its respective Pillar.
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