The Big Bad Genshin Verse Revision (Maybe)

[RatherClueless]

Actually, since characters like Eula passively leak cold around her, wouldn't that mean that they are constantly radiating elemental energy, which would cause normal humans to be affected? This is obviously something that doesn't actually happen.

Maybe that's a bit of a stretch, but still just a thought I had.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

not if they can control it. its pretty common for character who are aware that they can radiate things and control it. just like how bleach peeps stops their reiatsu from exuding so they don't randomly kill anyone within their vicinity unless they are in a fight

though I'm not familiar with Eula case so I can't say much

 

[Naito-desu]

The basis for the Disease and Empathic is cause all of their elemental attack would be able to slowly do it as a side effect, since a stone with nothing but concentrated elemental energies was able to do it with prolonged exposure, do note, prolonged esposure (like atleast a day), and since the fight would normally not last that long and chars wouldn't normally just spam the shit out of their abilites, it wouldn't come into play most of the time.

I don't really see Vision Users being able to radiate elemental energy in the exact same way that Smaragdus Jadeite does, what proof is there? Without clear evidence of this application, this ability is purely theoretical at best if not downright stretching what Vision Users are capable of doing.

 

[Jackpact]

Well then you could dissagree, tho wanting proof of that's gonna be hard considering the fact that there are almost no fight that last that long, even if there are the people invovle tendd to be the god tier so it really doesn't matter much. Tho the 1 thing that does fit is Raiden Musou vaping Signora, that one definitely have alot of elemental energy behind it and the affect it have on the traveler fit too, they went out and suddenly feel weak and dizzy, they turned from thinking that they could maybe fight Raiden to utter despair and hopeless at the thought of having to go against the Musou, but then again she's a god tier and that's her strongest attack so it really doesn't matter to the rest of the peep.

 

[Pikaman]

Put me in as disagree as well for the general scaling of low-tiers and Beidou scaling, also I still don't really get why Empathic Manip and Disease Manip are on there given this is something we've never seen them actually do nor are they capable of it, it soulds like NLF

I heavily disagree with it being NLF

elemental energy causes disease and change in personality in heavy doses

Genshin characters harness it for attacks

there’s no proof of a specific way to harness it, so it should be assumed that Jaedite and Visions output the energy in similar ways, just different doses

 

[Naito-desu]

elemental energy causes disease and change in personality in heavy doses

Genshin characters harness it for attacks

Can you prove that Genshin characters can harness pure elemental energy in this manner? And even moreso, put it in such concentrations that it causes effects? If there's no proof of it, it shouldn't be indexed, this power is purely theoretical if not downright fictional.

I don't understand how difficult it is to understand if there's no direct proof of this happening, secondary proof should not matter.

 

[Pikaman]

Can you prove that Genshin characters can harness pure elemental energy in this manner?

What do you mean “in this manner”? The idea there are numerous ways to harness elemental energy and use it is far more head canon than the assumption that Elemental Energy is just that. Surely the burden of proof is on you to prove that there’s a difference, when the natural assumption is that there’s none?

in terms of concentrations, we know that it’s an accumulative effect over time, so it just needs whatever level of dosage, we don’t know what dosage for sure but it’s defo there.

 

[Arkenis]

The disease and empathic manipulation should be minor since its effect is overtime and low.

 

[Arkenis]

Another thing note is that it seems to take days for it to effect people

 

[Arkenis]

not sure why you guys are so focused on this when its limited at best. It definitely won’t play into most fights but still is a decent thing to be noted

 

[Pikaman]

it isn’t hugely important for Vs Battles but it’s still important to index and we could end up enforcing some really poor standards on elemental energy which could hamper abilities from future updates

 

[Naito-desu]

Surely the burden of proof is on you to prove that there’s a difference, when the natural assumption is that there’s none?

No, the burden of proof lies on YOU to prove that this is something that Vision Users are capable of. I'm not pushing forward any alternative claims, I'm pointing out the fact that you're making leaps in logic to index something that has never ever been done by a Vision User and using secondary logic to try and justify something that even the game doesn't point out something that Vision Users can theoretically do.

There's literally nothing to suggest that they can do this, I still don't get why this is hard to understand. I'll agree when there literally is a statement saying "Vision Users can concentrate elemental energy to cause illnesses". I have some experience with magic systems, and whatever justification is being used for this is extremely flimsy. So in case I might be misinterpreted.

The evidence at hand is not sufficient for any kind of disease or empathic manip, not even minor, we've never seen this done nor has it been mentioned.

The idea there are numerous ways to harness elemental energy and use it is far more head canon than the assumption that Elemental Energy is just that.

Except the game already shows that Vision Users harness elemental energy via the different elements of their respective Visions, and do not demonstrate capability to harness other elements? Does that not count as "numerous ways of harnessing elemental energy", especially in ways that are mutually exclusive from other Vision Users? Not to mention that Smaragdus Jadeite explicitly does it in large concentrations of energy, so where's our proof that Vision Users can harness elemental energy itself and pool it into lethal concentration levels?

The game already lays out proof that there are effective limits of Visions despite elemental energy being the game's plot-convenient energy that can do anything and preexisting conditions for elemental energy that causes the effects that Smaragdus Jadeite has on people, and I don't see any proof of Vision Users being able to use it in that manner. I'm not against this because I'm obsessed with Vision Users getting Disease/Empathic Manip, I'm against this because the premise for giving the power is wrong.

 

[Shey]

Actually, since characters like Eula passively leak cold around her,

Where's this from?

 

[RatherClueless]

Where's this from?

Statement from Amber during the last Albedo quest (the winter event. Forgot what it was called.)

 

[Arkenis]

Actually, since characters like Eula passively leak cold around her, wouldn't that mean that they are constantly radiating elemental energy, which would cause normal humans to be affected? This is obviously something that doesn't actually happen.

Maybe that's a bit of a stretch, but still just a thought I had.

context?

 

[Shey]

Another thing note is that it seems to take days for it to effect people

I find it weird that conc. Elemental energy is used as a wincon in matches when it takes absurdly long for it to be a big problem

 

[Naito-desu]

When has it been used as a wincon?

 

[Shey]

When has it been used as a wincon?

I recall it was one of the arguments in the Xiao vs King match

 

[Naito-desu]

This one? @RatherClueless

Joel: So Amber really feels the cold, huh... but Aunty Eula, it doesn't seem to affect you at all.
Eula: Maybe it's because of our different capabilities. Elemental energy is... Ahem, sorry, not something you need to know about in any great detail. Simply put, it's because we have different abilities.
Amber: Yeah, harnessing the cold is definitely her specialty. In fact — in summertime, just standing next to her cools me down!

 

[Naito-desu]

I recall it was one of the arguments in the Xiao vs King match

That was Karma, not concentration of elemental energy. Now the two could very well be the same in the context of the Genshin universe, but that should be saved for an in-depth analysis into Elemental Energy rather than any sort of hasty conclusions we might draw from shallow interpretations of the lore.

 

[RatherClueless]

This one

 

[Pikaman]

I recall it was one of the arguments in the Xiao vs King match

Not really, I briefly brought it up as it could maybe hasten Xiao’s corruption but it was never an important factor in terms of that wincon

 

[Arkenis]

I find it weird that conc. Elemental energy is used as a wincon in matches when it takes absurdly long for it to be a big problem

Yeah it would only be considered as a wincon if the characters in question have days worth of stamina then you could argue that they end up getting sick

 

[Naito-desu]

I mean honestly, even at that point, days was a stretch because there's really no solid timepoint the game gives you for how long it takes to corrupt someone with karma, and I say this as the person who made the CRT to give Xiao his karma aura.

 

[RatherClueless]

bump

 

[Pikaman]

Votes counted and as it stands uh ruh roh for the entire scaling system.

as always if I made a mistake let me know

 

[RatherClueless]

Characters currently have flight on their profiles. Would be great if you added that too for discussion. I am not against enhanced senses.

 

[Pikaman]

Elemental Intangibility associated abilities e.g. Flight 0 1 (@RatherClueless) 0

Flight is already there

will change the vote on Enhanced senses, are you neutral in agreement or indifferent?

 

[RatherClueless]

Flight is already there

will change the vote on Enhanced senses, are you neutral in agreement or indifferent?

I am fine with it. Also, sry, didnt see it.

 

[Pikaman]

No prob

 

[Pikaman]

Ok so I’m gonna lock in some stuff that has been overwhelmingly approved or rejected, I’ll @ anyone that has voted contrary to the masses to get some final arguments but for the ones unanimously voted on I’ll lock those in and clear up space

 

[Pikaman]

Locked In:

Enhanced Senses/Extrasensory Perception 5 (@Pikaman @Nelliels @Jackpact @TheGreatJedi13 @RatherClueless)

Locked Out:

Guhua Scaling for Mid Tiers 0 4 (@Naitodesu @RatherClueless @Pikaman @Jackpact)

LAST ARGUMENTS CALL:

Guhua leveling a bamboo forest with a casual sword swing 1 (@Naitodesu) 4 (@Pikaman @Nelliels @RatherClueless @Jackpact)

@Naitodesu

Shenhe freezing a tsunami 4 (@Nelliels @Naitodesu @TheGreatJedi13 @Jackpact) 1 (@RatherClueless)

@RatherClueless

Summoning and limited Telekinesis 1 (@Nelliels) 3 (@Naitodesu @Pikaman @Jackpact) 1 (@RatherClueless)

@Nelliels

Resistance to Disease Manipulation 6 (@Pikaman @Nelliels @Jackpact @Naitodesu @Expectro2000xxx @TheGreatJedi13) 1 (@RatherClueless) 0

Resistance to Empathic Manipulation 6 (@Pikaman @Nelliels @Jackpact @Naitodesu @Expectro2000xxx @TheGreatJedi13) 1 (@RatherClueless) 0

@RatherClueless

 

[RatherClueless]

whats a "Last argument call"?

 

[Pikaman]

Pretty much nearly everyone has voted the opposite of you and I’m considering closing voting on that particular subject so make your last arguments and try and convince people to change their vote

 

[Pikaman]

So here you’re heavily outspoken on the validity of the Shenhe Calc and wide range resistance to Disease and Empathic Manip

 

[RatherClueless]

I mean, I dont think anyone even addressed my point on the shenhe calc (correct me if I am wrong), so making further arguments seems pointless until the current ones are tackled.

About the disease/empath resistance my issue is that they dont actually resist the side effects, but the ability. Assume a character has reality warping and another character specifically resists that ability. Does that mean they resist anything that character can do with their reality warping? No, of course not.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

I mean, I dont think anyone even addressed my point on the shenhe calc (correct me if I am wrong), so making further arguments seems pointless until the current ones are tackled.

About the disease/empath resistance my issue is that they dont actually resist the side effects, but the ability. Assume a character has reality warping and another character specifically resists that ability. Does that mean they resist anything that character can do with their reality warping? No, of course not.

That does make some sense to me.

 

[Pikaman]

I mean, I dont think anyone even addressed my point on the shenhe calc (correct me if I am wrong), so making further arguments seems pointless until the current ones are tackled.

About the disease/empath resistance my issue is that they dont actually resist the side effects, but the ability. Assume a character has reality warping and another character specifically resists that ability. Does that mean they resist anything that character can do with their reality warping? No, of course not.

I’m iffy on the Shenhe calc because it uses a different scaling system to every other distance based calc, if one stays, the other should be revised. (You’ll notice I’m neutral on all of them because idk which I prefer)

Yeah I agree with your arguments on Resistance to Empath/Disease Manip

 

[Jackpact]

I mean, I dont think anyone even addressed my point on the shenhe calc (correct me if I am wrong), so making further arguments seems pointless until the current ones are tackled.

About the disease/empath resistance my issue is that they dont actually resist the side effects, but the ability. Assume a character has reality warping and another character specifically resists that ability. Does that mean they resist anything that character can do with their reality warping? No, of course not.

Not gonna touch the tsunami calc cause i don't care about 'em.

This tho, what do you mean by that? Are you saying they resist the stuff that concentrated elemental energies can do but not all of the stuff that said abilites can do on a baseline level?

 

[Naito-desu]

Breaking down what I think is Clueless' point, Vision Users can ultimately resist concentrated elemental energies ******* up their bodies but it doesn't equalize to them actually resisting Disease Manipulation/Empathic Manipulation in general. I don't really think this is cause for not adding it as a resistance, but I do think that Biological Manipulation that induces madness, illness, etc., is a better way to word it than the way we have it currently.