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the 7927347643298472th sonic vs goku match

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Oh yeah, Goku fought very well against Kid Buu who is a martial arts prodigy like Goku but has lived for Hundreds of millions of years so using the experience argument doesn't work
 
And to highlight the level of skill that praise showed: This was a Goku who had to adjust to the level of the gods in barely a couple of minutes, immediately mastered it and went on to match the level that Beerus was outputting.
 
sanicspood said:
I don’t think his precog works like that, I’m pretty sure that it just tells him that something is gonna happen so he can dodge iirc, It doesn’t outright say what gokus exactly gonna do.
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Goku's prediction also requires him to analyze his opponent's movements which: 1. He doesn't have prior knowledge in what fighting style Sonic assumes in this key plus 2. He doesn't know about Excalibur's power to offer dura negging properties and type 4 immortality granted by a source of energy that passively keeps increasing as Sonic fights in.
SemiRaedi said:
Also can you show Sonic doing an actual skilled maneuver too?
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We are talking about a guy who can perfectly control his maneuver in a pseudo-flight mid-air, and Sonic is capable of dodging danmaku like a conventional day of running around, and react to attacks that are 4x faster than his own, as showcased by Infinite using a replica of Metal Sonic's V. Max overdrive attack.
FluffyCreatureZ said:
(Excalibur is said to have power to cut through any kind of material in it's vicinity, with said power, Sonic was able to completely bypass the Dark Queen's defenses in a single blow)
Am I dumb or isn't this a no limits fallacy? I don't see any durability negation properties it's just very strong sword go slash, unless I'm missing context.
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The ability of Excalibur being able to cut through any kind of material might be an NLF if it's taken in the literal meaning of the word. But, as of the circumstances, the Arthurian Legend portrayal would led the power of the sword of being capable of bypassing conventional durability following the context of the legend, as after Excalibur Sonic used the Meteor Charge, he was able to completely bypass Merlina's defenses and destroy the Dark Queen's form with a single attack during the aftermath, whereas he needed powerful hits to do heavy damage towards it before using the technique.
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Sonic was flat out able to bypass a ''nigh-invulnerable sight'' of the magic scabbard in a single blow once he used an umnamed light based attack, which is what the description implies.
 
Gabs22_Gamer said:
We are talking about a guy who can perfectly control his maneuver in a pseudo-flight mid-air, and Sonic is capable of dodging danmaku like a conventional day of running around, and react to attacks that are 4x faster than his own, as showcased by Infinite using a replica of Metal Sonic's V. Max overdrive attack.
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None of that is impressive by Dragon Ball standards. They could already do all of that by the saiyan/frieza saga.
 
Gabs22_Gamer said:
Goku's prediction also requires him to analyze his opponent's movements which: 1. He doesn't have prior knowledge in what fighting style Sonic assumes in this key plus 2. He doesn't know about Excalibur's power to offer dura negging properties and type 4 immortality granted by a source of energy that passively keeps increasing as Sonic fights in.
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Goku senses Sonic, he notices his physical strength itself is much lower than his own therefore he won't provide a fight, he proceeds to knock out chop/punch/kiai sonic.

Goku would do this to anyone without any prior knowledge and would do this without much need for analytical prediction since he's done it to literal fodder with no hax. And he used his analytical prediction to literally predict when Hit would use timeskip so I doubt Sonic's combat style will be a problem.
Gabs22_Gamer said:
We are talking about a guy who can perfectly control his maneuver in a pseudo-flight mid-air, and Sonic is capable of dodging danmaku like a conventional day of running around, and react to attacks that are 4x faster than his own, as showcased by Infinite using a replica of Metal Sonic's V. Max overdrive attack.
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This is your average dragon ball z to super battle
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
This makes sense. Goku actually does this in character just like he did vs Chappa.
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Goku does this as his first move against opponents much weaker than him, he kills only if he has no other option as shown when he literally tried to spare Frieza's life when he first went super Saiyan which makes the user naturally more aggressive after Frieza murdered his childhood friend and other innocents Infront of his own eyes.

Goku doesn't need to know Sonic's fighting style or that he has immortality type 4 to do this.
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
None of that is impressive by Dragon Ball standards. They could already do all of that by the saiyan/frieza saga.
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Goku doesn't manipulate momentum or vectors aside of the usage of his ki to fly out. React to an attack that's 4x times faster is a stated multiplier and Sonic already has this level of perception in base.
 
Gabs22_Gamer said:
Goku doesn't manipulate momentum or vectors aside of the usage of his ki to fly out. React to an attack that's 4x times faster is a stated multiplier and Sonic already has this level of perception in base.
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Fancy words honestly means nothing. He can perfectly control his movement mid-air with ki. It's the same skill, if with a different power.

Any ki blast that covers more area than they can while moving say hi. They can perceive things their eyes aren't able to see through, guess what, ki sensing.
 
Goku can use his own skill can do what Sonic needs abilities to do is essentially what your telling me with that first sentence.
 
SemiRaedi said:
Goku can use his own skill can do what Sonic needs abilities to do is essentially what your telling me with that first sentence.
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It still denotes a highly mobile technique that Sonic is able to do that. It is impressive against the average verse, it's just that Dragon Ball already do this. And I would argue it's even more impressive, since they can control their movement so well so as to lower people being able to see them (look at any tournament; and this done very early in Dragon Ball as well).
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
It still denotes a highly mobile technique that Sonic is able to do that. It is impressive against the average verse, it's just that Dragon Ball already do this. And I would argue it's even more impressive, since they can control their movement so well so as to lower people being able to see them (look at any tournament; and this done very early in Dragon Ball as well).
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Yeah I agree, I'll admit I was being a bit snarky with that comment lol.
 
Not for strength but for speed, Goku would blitz if he transforms, if his opponent is dangerous then he'll transform if they're as fast as each other, or I guess he'd just skip that and punch the man.
 
Actually, something really relevant. What's Sonic's mentality here? Will he go for the kill all the time? Would he harbor some kind of evil intent? Or would he merely be defensive? That can change Goku's entire mentality.

Against Trunks, he decided to hold back and simply tank his sword slashes as he sensed Trunks didn't harbor any evil intent and was just testing him, for example.

Against Broly, he wanted to test himself, have fun and preferred to try and reason when given the opportunity.

Against Beerus, it gave him insane motivation to get strong and that boosted him, as he believed Beerus' threats about destroying the Earth.

So, depending what he senses about Sonic, he may try to incap, reason if fight for a bit or be fairly serious even if not planning on killing.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Not for strength but for speed, Goku would blitz if he transforms, if his opponent is dangerous then he'll transform if they're as fast as each other, or I guess he'd just skip that and punch the man.
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I doubt Goku would ssj blitz someone who is massively weaker than him and he is less skilled than him making him counter the equal speed.
 
Goku doesn't go Super Saiyan against someone who is like 100x times weaker than he is, which in-character also leads him to hold back against enemies not knowing an suspicious aspect of abilities that they have through the setting. (in this case Excalibur's power to bypass dura given no prior knowledge), I honestly don't see how Sonic wouldn't be able to react to any of Goku's attacks when he faced skilled maneuvers in his past and is a gifted combat prodigy through his entire carrier.


Sonic knows that Goku is far stronger than he is, why he wouldn't instantly opt to use hax here? Especially since Sonic adopts a defensive combat style that's targetted towards using his speed to predict high-level projectiles and attacks from like kilometers of distance away or even change vectorial tragetory at point blank range, finding openings and weakspots in exact detail to measure his chances of victory. (See his fights against Perfect Chaos, Solaris, Infinite, Time Eater and etc), Sonic is an embodiment of a combat speedster in his own right to have skill details towards opponents.

Sonic isn't that far away in combat feats from what Goku has and it isn't a ''hardly assumption'' that he would try to sidestep away.

Further testaments of his strength growing by every second in his fight against Infinite, and he shows passive development to face hard situations that he had difficulties earlier.
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
Actually, something really relevant. What's Sonic's mentality here? Will he go for the kill all the time? Would he harbor some kind of evil intent? Or would he merely be defensive? That can change Goku's entire mentality.
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Sonic doesn't have an killing intent all of the time, he spares foes in some occasions or generally tries to incapacitate them (Excalibur in instance was fighting to convince Merlina that immortality for the world is not a good plan and it would be a lame choice of her own to do that).

He isn't that much of a naturally bloodlusted guy like you could think of, Majin Buu, for instance.
 
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Gabs22_Gamer said:
Sonic doesn't have an killing intent all of the time, he spares foes in some occasions or generally tries to incapacitate them (Excalibur in instance was fighting to convince Merlina that immortality for the world is not a good plan and it would be a lame choice of her own to do that).

He isn't that much of a naturally bloodlusted guy like you could think of, Majin Buu, for instance.
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This is the most relevant part for me:
So, based on that, why would he go for the kill against this orange asshole monkey
 
Gabs22_Gamer said:
Goku doesn't go Super Saiyan against someone who is like 100x times weaker than he is, which in-character also leads him to hold back against enemies not knowing an suspicious aspect of abilities that they have through the setting. (in this case Excalibur's power to bypass dura given no prior knowledge), I honestly don't see how Sonic wouldn't be able to react to any of Goku's attacks when he faced skilled maneuvers in his past and is a gifted combat prodigy through his entire carrier.
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The problem is trying to equate Sonic being a combat prodigy and saying it's on the same level as Goku and how he is a combat prodigy, Goku has tons of feats showing his combat genius that trumps Sonic, a few have been posted now and you can feel free to ask instead of just assuming they are on the same level.

Due to what Goku has shown with his skill, he'd simply outskill Sonic in H2H combat.

And Goku in-character would avoid getting slashed by a sword regardless so using "he doesn't know it Dura negs" doesn't mean anything. And Goku only holds back against people he trains with or against opponents he wants something out of, Goku wants nothing from Sonic but to fight him so he will go for knock out in character

> Sonic knows that Goku is far stronger than he is, why he wouldn't instantly opt to use hax here? Especially since Sonic adopts a defensive combat style that's targetted towards using his speed to predict high-level projectiles and attacks from like kilometers of distance away or even change vectorial tragetory at point blank range, finding openings and weakspots in exact detail to measure his chances of victory. (See his fights against Perfect Chaos, Solaris, Infinite, Time Eater and etc), Sonic is an embodiment of a combat speedster in his own right to have skill details towards opponents.

Show me Sonic using hax as a first move against someone rather than going for the counter, Sonic has no knowledge on Goku's skill level and (correct me since I might have missed it) no way to gauge Goku's physical power.
Gabs22_Gamer said:
Sonic isn't that far away in combat feats from what Goku has and it isn't a ''hardly assumption'' that he would try to sidestep away.
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I really don't want to argue why Goku would outskill Sonic lol, if you wish then post Sonic's best skill feats and we will stack them up against Goku's because Goku's analytical prediction will see Sonic side stepping and provide an appropriate counter.
Gabs22_Gamer said:
Sonic doesn't have an killing intent all of the time, he spares foes in some occasions or generally tries to incapacitate them (Excalibur in instance was fighting to convince Merlina that immortality for the world is not a good plan and it would be a lame choice of her own to do that).

He isn't that much of a naturally bloodlusted guy like you could think of, Majin Buu, for instance.
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Goku would like just go for knock out since Sonic is just a random opponent to him then.
 
You're arguing that Goku who fought equally against an opponent with all of the combat skill and DNA of Goku's opponents and allies (cell), fought equally against a martial arts prodigy who has hundreds of millions of years of experience (kid Buu) and had his combat skills approved by a God of Destruction who has combat abilities that trump any mortals (Beerus), gets matched or is close in skill with Sonic without posting any valid skill arguments.
Maverick_Zero_X said:
From what I’ve seen from Goku’s encounters with Trunks doesn’t he try to block swords?
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Goku knew Trunks wasn't attempting to truly harm him.
 
TauanVictor said:
Same thing here. Someone much weaker than he is not going to kill, so the argument is valid.
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It really isn't. Buu was weaker (although comparable, to be fair), he immediately went straight for the kill but couldn't because of the limits of Ssj3.

It really really depends on the opponents mentality most of all.
 
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