TenSura LN Major Misleading Revision - Part 1

[Astral_Trinity439]

Can I get the full context behind this or from which volume it is?

Volume 19 Slimereader, it's an independent part in and of itself.
Rimuru disintegrates Michael's info particles and absorbs him[as a skill] while his consciousness is reduced to God.
A very similar scan is this

The heart core of a person who has attained the true enlightenment and become a sinless person cannot be bound even if the soul is bound.

It is freed from the Cycle of Reincarnation and released from any restrictions whatsoever as it passes away to the Promised Land.

That is, Nirvana.

- The Kanji used for Dissolution at the end is 解脱, which means Moksha in Japanese. Moksha as in the Hinduism sense, or the Buddhism sense as well, uniting with God and attaining Nirvana, both beliefs overlap. However, the Kanji itself is more popularly used for "Moksha".

He started arguments with GS darkness and linked that in page one.

The same subspace/void is also explained in that same page in the section right next to Great Spirits...

I agree with NEP type 1 with Subspace arguments if you are trying to argue God encompasses the whole verse including Subspace. But it wouldn't be granting NEP type 2 though. Do you have scans for God predating subspace also?

Subspace is NEP2, not NEP1. It precedes the Great Spirits [including that of GS of darkness] which is non-existence, as well as everything else in the verse [even non-omnipotent Veldanava].

 

[Berga14]

Blame Astral then
He started arguments with GS darkness and linked that in page one.

I agree with NEP type 1 with Subspace arguments if you are trying to argue God encompasses the whole verse including Subspace. But it wouldn't be granting NEP type 2 though. Do you have scans for God predating subspace also?

Anyway if you are main arguments are based on Subspace drop the great spirit arguments. Something born from a character≠ Character existence itself is same thing.

The gs of darkness and light were about existence and nonesxistence duality.
But while talking about the gs of darkness a nep 1 void came up (hell) then, idk how, hell got confused with the subspace which is another void that came before veldenava.

They are literally called yin and yang. And it is in the cosmology page that was sent like 5 times

Uh the argument is that God predates Hell which must be NEP 1. Subspace must be NEP 2 considering that GSoD defines nonexistence.

Haven't seen a scan. Only headcanons so far. So no

Can you all stop writing for a bit? Everything is getting extremely messy.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The same subspace/void is also explained in that same page in the section right next to Great Spirits...

You didn't argued with Subspace and clarify that previously. As far I remember

Subspace is NEP2, not NEP1. It precedes the Great Spirits [including that of GS of darkness] which is non-existence, as well as everything else in the verse [even non-omnipotent Veldanava].

Doesn't matter if it precedes great spirits because I don't see any scans for GS being non existent itself. It's abilities can create hell so far what I see.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Where is this coming from?

Since the great spirits of darkness is nonexistence. Then the void that exists before and after them would also lack even nonexistence.

So? I never denied it being a void. Read my replies again. I'm saying it was created by GS darkness so its void stuff doesn't be granting any NEP to any characters. It was born from of the attributes nothing related to existence itself.

It is literally the world of DARKNESS.yet also a void of nonexistence. Which means that the great spirits does govern nonexistence (and demons would also be Nep 1 since they embody it) yet subspace is even farther nothingness then the great spirit of darkness. (Nonexistence) so it is Nep 2. God encompasses everything.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The gs of darkness and light were about existence and nonesxistence duality.

Light and Darkness attributes represents duality not existence and non existent stuff.

But while talking about the gs of darkness a nep 1 void came up (hell) then, idk how, hell got confused with the subspace which is another void that came before veldenava.

Subspace is boid sure like I said it would grant NEP type 1 if you can prove God encompasses Subspace also. But NEP type 2 you need more proof for conventional nothingness.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Since the great spirits of darkness is nonexistence. Then the void that exists before and after them would also lack even nonexistence.

It is literally the world of DARKNESS.yet also a void of nonexistence. Which means that the great spirits does govern nonexistence (and demons would also be Nep 1 since they embody it) yet subspace is even farther nothingness then the great spirit of darkness. (Nonexistence) so it is Nep 2. God encompasses everything.

Send the scans for Subspace is deeper nothingness than Void from hell. Also it doesn't matter even if you got the scan what needed for NEP type 2 is proving conventional nothingness which no one even understand on your end. Even NEP type 1 can have layers iirc. So deeper nothingness doesn't mean it's NEP type 2

 

[CodeCCLL]

Just clarify one thing does hell existed when Velda was omnipotent or it was created after he created spirit of darkness?

After Veldanava gave up being omnipotent, he created the first Primordial Angel Feldway from the Great Spirit of Light, after which other Primordial Angels were born, and then from the shadows of the Primordial Angels, Primordial Demons were born, derived from the Great Spirit of Darkness, so Primordial Demons were not born in hell and are even older than hell. But all other Demons were probably born in hell.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

You didn't argued with Subspace and clarify that previously. As far I remember

I never assumed you meant subspace when we were talking about GS of darkness or the void of hell, thus why. The cosmology page explicitly clarifies that both are completely different things.

You didn't argued with Subspace and clarify that previously. As far I remember

Doesn't matter if it precedes great spirits because I don't see any scans for GS being non existent itself. It's abilities can create hell so far what I see.

The ability doesn't "create hell", it manipulates the already present hell.
Also, repeating myself from earlier:

A bottomless darkness was about to envelop Vega, just like the one directed at Zelanus.
It's the power of Void that comes from the Abyss.
"Abyss" refers to Hell.
Proves that Darkness : Void/Nonexistence

A Darkness spell does whatever its doing by manipulating its respective law/great spirit. A fire spell summons/creates a fire, and said fire is governed by its respective law of nature[the gs of fire in this case]. Something like water is not governed by GS of fire, and so, with the same logic, no other GS governs darkness/void other then the GS of darkness. [Refer to the magic and skills page for this], as well as these:
Spirits are natural phenomenon themselves in their most purest form, including the phenomenon of "fire burning oxygen and generating Carbon Dioxide -> Spirits separate from the Great Spirit/Attribute of their respective element -> Spirits are the manifestation of these attributes/laws/great spirits -> Guy[a demon, essentially a spirit of "Darkness"] that rules over the world of darkness and is the embodiment of darkness yet is still derived from the great spirit of darkness

Now, one of the most direct statements I can give you:

Raine fired a bolt of magic from her fist. Exposed to the laws of nature, it transformed into a Nuclear Cannon blast—one Raine called for with no casting time. But Diablo, naturally, had expected this, not demonstrating a moment of concern as he cast dispulsion magic to make the nuclear blast vanish. This is what battle between high-level demons is about: breaking through one another’s layers of magical barriers and counterattack spells to land a lethal blow on your enemy. Neither side had any need for time-consuming spellcasting as they threw supercharged blasts of magic at each other. ~ Volume 11 OTL

Magic cast is just attributeless originally, it's just a bolt of magic energy, but when it is exposed to the laws of the world, it transforms into what those laws govern. A nuclear canon is only as it is as it is because of being exposed to the law governing it. So, the void of hell/darkness of hell would also only be so because of being exposed to the law/great spirit governing it; aka the GS of darkness.

 

[Dog3352]

I thought you said you didn't mean it as "literal". But in any case, Darkness spells don't really summon plants[to my memory], nor do a "spell" governs it.
But "Fire spells" manipulate the great spirit of fire to summon or create fire, fire is defined by the GS of fire.
It's all explained in the Skills and Magic page, same for my quote that you're quoting

Is take the ELEMENTAL MAGIC from the Spirits to use THE ELEMENT/MAGIC, this does not mean that if an elemental magic uses invocation then the thing invoked is part of the element itself.
It is true that when a non-elemental being tries to use elemental magic, they take the power of a Spirit, but they take the power of the Spirit to use the element, nothing says that something that is summoned using elemental magic is part of or is the element itself.

It is literally said that the void comes from the Demon Realm, and not from darkness/magic itself, there is a difference between saying that something that is purely dark magic is part of "pure darkness" (be it darkness itself), and saying that something that darkness magic is used to SUMMON something from a realm is part of "pure darkness" (be it darkness itself).

Man, how is it it hard to understand the co-relation between "Fangs of Darkness" and "Summons the void". The "fans" are referring to the void.

Let me quote 2 lines rather then 2 words for you:

I don't even know what "Fangs of Darkness" are.

A Darkness spell does whatever its doing by manipulating its respective law/great spirit. A fire spell summons/creates a fire, and said fire is governed by its respective law of nature[the gs of fire in this case]. Something like water is not governed by GS of fire, and so, with the same logic, no other GS governs darkness/void other then the GS of darkness. [Refer to the magic and skills page for this], as well as these:
Spirits are natural phenomenon themselves in their most purest form, including the phenomenon of "fire burning oxygen and generating Carbon Dioxide -> Spirits separate from the Great Spirit/Attribute of their respective element -> Spirits are the manifestation of these attributes/laws/great spirits
Now, one of the most direct statements I can give you:
Magic cast is just attributeless originally, it's just a bolt of magic energy, but when it is exposed to the laws of the world, it transforms into what those laws govern. A nuclear canon is only as it is as it is because of being exposed to the law governing it. So, the void of hell/darkness of hell would also only be so because of being exposed to the law/great spirit governing it; aka the GS of darkness.

As I said before, just because elemental magic is used to SUMMON something does not mean that something invoked is darkness itself, summoning magic summons things like demons and elemental beings from elsewhere, but that doesn't mean that summoning magic is a demonic magic or elemental magic, this is simply forcing A to be B.

Even a summoning magic is essentially cast by manipulating the world's laws/great spirits. Said realm of darkness itself is within the scope of GS of darkness. Why are you not counting this? :

Same thing as before, summoning something doesn't mean that this summoned something is the same thing as the summoning spell, there is literally nothing you've shown that shows that darkness is the void, just that an elemental spell invokes the void.

It's not the spell itself that is governed by the laws; the spell itself simply manipulates those laws. It's the thing summoned/created that is governed by those laws. A magic that summons a being of light; the spell is not light itself, but the being of light is indeed governed by the GS of light.
Same here. So that's a half valid half invalid argument there.

Summoning Magic summons beings like Demons and Elementals, although Summoning Magic is a space magic, while beings like Demons are beings of Darkness, basically, A can be used to summon B, but A and B are not essentially the same things.
Summoning magic itself is made of darkness, but nothing says that what is summoned is darkness itself, or that what is invoked is magic itself.

 

[The_golden_and_silver_house94]

Haven't seen a scan. Only headcanons so far. So no

This are The reasons why things derived from them should be treated as Dualities i guess

 

[Dereck03]

I have practically read all of this since the OP got me involved, I will note that I have been on many attempts at NEP 2 for tensura and they have never been enough, this one instead has many arguments, but like the previous one they have been out of context.

I will not explain the point the OP highlights about my arguments because that is already my position and many have recognized that the context is simply misleading.

About the arguments here in cons I mostly agree with the OP.

The argument used that velda encompass existence and nonexistence here would at most warrant a limited use of NEP 1 because: Veldanava he is not non-existent, he also possesses existence, so he himself is both existent and non-existent, but it is not a case I would propose to give him NEP 3 because I do not see the application/requirement needed of Type 3.

I have not seen any argument that says that the sub space is a higher level of non-existence than the one already mentioned, only that it precedes the spirits, but all the context here suggests that simply the sub space is the same only that it was there before, here there is no substantial difference and even obviating a little this argument, NEP 1 layered exists, and if we do a little extrapolation to the given context ignoring the lack of scans, this would simply be a layered NEP 1.

My final conclusion is, NEP 2 bye.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Same thing as before, summoning something doesn't mean that this summoned something is the same thing as the summoning spell, there is literally nothing you've shown that shows that darkness is the void, just that an elemental spell invokes the void.

Ignoring all your other points and going to leave that for astral .
.
First. Hell is a void. Nhillity is dark magic. With nhillity meaning (nothingness; nonexistence)

Gyazo

gyazo.com

Second. Even though hell is a void of nonexistence. It is called the world of darkness .
this alone should be more than enough. Hell is the world of darkness. Yet we know that it is a void. Means that world of darkness =world of nonexistentence. With the great spirit of darkness literally being the reason for hell.

Gyazo

gyazo.com

Third. The power of darkness is directly stated to be the power of the void.

Gyazo

gyazo.com

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

I have practically read all of this since the OP got me involved, I will note that I have been on many attempts at NEP 2 for tensura and they have never been enough, this one instead has many arguments, but like the previous one they have been out of context.

I will not explain the point the OP highlights about my arguments because that is already my position and many have recognized that the context is simply misleading.

About the arguments here in cons I mostly agree with the OP.

The argument used that velda encompass existence and nonexistence here would at most warrant a limited use of NEP 1 because: Veldanava he is not non-existent, he also possesses existence, so he himself is both existent and non-existent, but it is not a case I would propose to give him NEP 3 because I do not see the application/requirement needed of Type 3.

I have not seen any argument that says that the sub space is a higher level of non-existence than the one already mentioned, only that it precedes the spirits, but all the context here suggests that simply the sub space is the same only that it was there before, here there is no substantial difference and even obviating a little this argument, NEP 1 layered exists, and if we do a little extrapolation to the given context ignoring the lack of scans, this would simply be a layered NEP 1.

It is literally before and after the concept of nonexistentence so I don’t see how layered Nep 1 could even be possible. Also this is for god, not veldanava. God doesn’t possess existence. It encompasses all things that exist including subspace which lacks even the concept of nonexistence. So it would still be Nep 2 and not Nep 1

My final conclusion is, NEP 2 bye.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Is take the ELEMENTAL MAGIC from the Spirits to use THE ELEMENT/MAGIC, this does not mean that if an elemental magic uses invocation then the thing invoked is part of the element itself.
It is true that when a non-elemental being tries to use elemental magic, they take the power of a Spirit, but they take the power of the Spirit to use the element, nothing says that something that is summoned using elemental magic is part of or is the element itself.

OP got me involved

So do you have any idea what this guy is trying to say?

 

[Fixxed]

Uh, with what you're saying, it's necessary that the character be said not to exist and that he has NEP 1 to have NEP 2.

Yes the character must be said not exist, no he doesnt need to be NEP 1 first, but the verse must show conventional nothingness (NEP 1) for being the measurament of NEP 2, because NEP 2 literally nonexistence that are lack of nonexistence

 

[Dereck03]

It is literally before and after the concept of nonexistentence so I don’t see how layered Nep 1 could even be possible. Also this is for god, not veldanava. God doesn’t possess existence. It encompasses all things that exist including subspace which lacks even the concept of nonexistence. So it would still be Nep 2 and not Nep 1

Literally the point here is that the sub space already existed, this being a normal nothingness preceding the spirits, when they came into existence they were put into existence and nonexistence, nothing more.

Here the sub space is just something that existed prior to such events. Nothing more. Your only proof is that by it existing prior to the spirits it means that it must obviously be superior in every respect, whereas it is simply a space.

There is no mention of any difference in physiology as such, nor is any comparison or difference made, there is simply no elaboration to prove your claim that "by this existing prior to the concept of nonexistence". It is simply an extrapolation.

They are just 2 separate existences (in this case nothings), only the other is not affected by the existence of the other.

So do you have any idea what this guy is trying to say?

I wrote my post before reading his comment so I have no idea what he said.

 

[Dog3352]

First. Hell is a void. Nhillity is dark magic. With nhillity meaning (nothingness; nonexistence)

Gyazo

gyazo.com

Nihility is a black SUMMONING magic, which SUMMONS the void of hell.
Hell is a realm that is apparently empty.

Now, how is this supposed to prove that darkness is the void itself, when the spell's own description says it is a summoning spell that summons the void of hell? Literally NOTHING there shows that darkness is the void itself, and it is being used to invoke the emptiness of a place, if darkness were the void itself, it would not be necessary to invoke the emptiness of a place.

Second. Even though hell is a void of nonexistence. It is called the world of darkness .
this alone should be more than enough. Hell is the world of darkness. Yet we know that it is a void. Means that world of darkness =world of nonexistentence. With the great spirit of darkness literally being the reason for hell.

Gyazo

gyazo.com

A realm where dark beings exist is called a Darkness Realm... Do I really need to quote anything here? That's not even an argument.

Third. The power of darkness is directly stated to be the power of the void.

Gyazo

gyazo.com

And once again, the void comes from a place (abyss), and is not stated to be darkness itself.

I believe this is the magic on scan? All the Nihility Magics I've seen that are related to the void invoke the void from somewhere.

Honestly, I won't comment here anymore, even the wiki itself says that Nilihity Magic is just a summoning magic used to invoke the void (nothing saying or giving an idea that darkness is the void itself or anything like that), I won't keep arguing about something so simple and obvious.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Yes the character must be said not exist, no he doesnt need to be NEP 1 first, but the verse must show conventional nothingness (NEP 1) for being the measurament of NEP 2, because NEP 2 literally nonexistence that are lack of nonexistence

Veldanava encompasses the existent and the non-existent and lacks distinction so literally you accept that it is NEP 2.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Is take the ELEMENTAL MAGIC from the Spirits to use THE ELEMENT/MAGIC, this does not mean that if an elemental magic uses invocation then the thing invoked is part of the element itself.

It is, in fact. Fire produced by fire magic works is not governed by physical laws, but is still governed by the laws of magic. Magic manipulates that natural phenomenon, while a spirit/elemental IS the natural phenomenon itself.

It is true that when a non-elemental being tries to use elemental magic, they take the power of a Spirit, but they take the power of the Spirit to use the element, nothing says that something that is summoned using elemental magic is part of or is the element itself.

Dude, they use the power of spirits to cause a natural phenomenon; a Spirit/elemental IS a natural phenomenon

It is literally said that the void comes from the Demon Realm, and not from darkness/magic itself, there is a difference between saying that something that is purely dark magic is part of "pure darkness" (be it darkness itself), and saying that something that darkness magic is used to SUMMON something from a realm is part of "pure darkness" (be it darkness itself).

Each attribute defines their respective elements
The Great Spirit of fire governs all forms of fire, and that holds true for all great spirits.
The summoned and/or thing is, regardless, still under the influence of the laws of the world. The scan I sent regarding Raine's magic being attributetess at first and then gaining an attribute proves that.
Spirits are the manifestation of these attributes/laws/great spirits -> Guy[a demon, essentially a spirit of "Darkness"] that rules over the world of darkness and is the embodiment of darkness yet is still derived from the great spirit of darkness
Guy, a Darkness Spirit, is literally the embodiment of darkness itself. How more direct do you want it to go?

Same thing as before, summoning something doesn't mean that this summoned something is the same thing as the summoning spell, there is literally nothing you've shown that shows that darkness is the void, just that an elemental spell invokes the void.

Idk why you're purposely ignoring and just refusing to read it or if its not loading for you :sob

A bottomless darkness was about to envelop Vega, just like the one directed at Zelanus.
It's the power of Void that comes from the Abyss.
"Abyss" refers to Hell.
Proves that Darkness : Void/Nonexistence

I have not seen any argument that says that the sub space is a higher level of non-existence than the one already mentioned, only that it precedes the spirits, but all the context here suggests that simply the sub space is the same only that it was there before, here there is no substantial difference and even obviating a little this argument

Simple. Subspace existed before both nonexistence[GS of Darkness] and existence, that alone is enough to differentiate it from regular "Darkness".

The argument used that velda encompass existence and nonexistence here would at most warrant a limited use of NEP 1 because: Veldanava he is not non-existent, he also possesses existence, so he himself is both existent and non-existent, but it is not a case I would propose to give him NEP 3 because I do not see the application/requirement needed of Type 3.

Wouldn't preceding both existence and nonexistence be enough to warrant type 2?

Idealistic Nonexistence: The character doesn't exist in a sense further beyond conventional nonexistence. In terms of binary, this would be something that is neither 1 nor 0, where 1 is existence and 0 is nonexistence. These characters often have some form of Nonduality due to their lack of binary existence. Characters of this type have to behave at least as nonexistent as those with Material Nonexistence, but might display even further showings such as preceding or opposing existence.

For example, taking 0 and 1, the two possible states of binary systems, as a duality, a nondual character's state of being could be between 0 and 1, being both or neither at once, being another number besides these, or be indescribable through numbers.

His state of encompassing both existence and non-existence is essentially a nondual state, a state of "Both A and Not A", but also simultaneously precedes both existence and nonexistence entirely, so "Neither A nor Not A", that's essentially different from being individually A[Existence] or Not A[Nonexistence].

Veldanava he is not non-existent, he also possesses existence, so he himself is both existent and non-existent, but it is not a case I would propose to give him NEP 3 because I do not see the application/requirement needed of Type 3.

I think you're confusing yourself here.
In any case, you missed the fact that he isn't just both, he also precedes both; was present before both.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I have practically read all of this since the OP got me involved, I will note that I have been on many attempts at NEP 2 for tensura and they have never been enough, this one instead has many arguments, but like the previous one they have been out of context.

I will not explain the point the OP highlights about my arguments because that is already my position and many have recognized that the context is simply misleading.

About the arguments here in cons I mostly agree with the OP.

The argument used that velda encompass existence and nonexistence here would at most warrant a limited use of NEP 1 because: Veldanava he is not non-existent, he also possesses existence, so he himself is both existent and non-existent, but it is not a case I would propose to give him NEP 3 because I do not see the application/requirement needed of Type 3.

I have not seen any argument that says that the sub space is a higher level of non-existence than the one already mentioned, only that it precedes the spirits, but all the context here suggests that simply the sub space is the same only that it was there before, here there is no substantial difference and even obviating a little this argument, NEP 1 layered exists, and if we do a little extrapolation to the given context ignoring the lack of scans, this would simply be a layered NEP 1.

My final conclusion is, NEP 2 bye.

Thanks for the input

Actually I updated my OP now with counter arguments for dualities and Subspace stuff. Can you take a look

Spoiler

Duality arguments
The cosmology blog seems to discuss a Hell/Underworld where the Great Spirit of Darkness summons the Void. However, it never explicitly states that the Great Spirit of Darkness itself is non-existent, nor Velda, nor God. Therefore, arguments suggesting that the Great Spirit of Darkness has sub-abilities of Void Manipulation based on this do not grant NEP.

Additionally, the idea that God encompasses both existence and non-existence is a big assumption, as these concepts are not treated as dualities. Rather, they stem from the attributes of light and darkness. In the series, only light and darkness are treated as dualities according to the scans on the cosmology blog.

There is also Subspace, which is described as its own kind of Void. If supporters of Tensura can prove that God encompasses Subspace with supporting scans, then I could see a case for Limited NEP type 1. However, God-Key Velda does not only encompass Subspace. He still exists and has not demonstrated any feats that indicate pure non-existence. Furthermore, this Subspace does not qualify for NEP type 2, as it is not the conventional form of "nothingness" required to prove NEP type 2 for God.

So obviously NEP type 2 justification scan is misleading. Hence it should be downgraded to Limited NEP type 1 if they can prove Velda God key encompasses Subspace.

 

[Dereck03]

Wouldn't preceding both existence and nonexistence be enough to warrant type 2?

Oh yeah, I forgot that bit of text you highlight here.

Well, This is interesting to say the least.

In itself preceding these states could be enough, but the necessary proof lies in the physiology itself, the user must be nonexistent, that is the main requirement, if the user is part of something that precedes the nothingness and the existence as in this example is the subspace, you must show that this subspace is not simply a conventional nothingness that simply already existed, here what is shown is that the 2 nothingnesses are the same since there is no elaboration, applying the physiology that the subspace is type 2 just by existing prior without proving a physiology of superior nothingness is what is wrong here, because there is no evidence.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Additionally, the idea that God encompasses both existence and non-existence is a big assumption, as these concepts are not treated as dualities. Rather, they stem from the attributes of light and darkness. In the series, only light and darkness are treated as dualities according to the scans on the cosmology blog.

God encompasses everything that Veldanava created. The World of Darkness [Darkness being nonexistence/void] IS a part of the cosmology.

About the "they are not treated as dualities" part, You still haven't replied to this:

That's your own interpretation, unless you can give me a specific example of that happening, such as a if B and Not B are sub-dualities and B is derived from A, then how is Not B not derived from Not A.
And even then, such an example would just be a specific example, and the same can be said for tensura being the opposite of that argument in specific.

A bottomless darkness was about to envelop Vega, just like the one directed at Zelanus.
It's the power of Void that comes from the Abyss.
"Abyss" refers to Hell.
Proves that Darkness : Void/Nonexistence

You seriously need to know what all-encompassing means

 

[Digital_Franz]

Spoiler

Additionally, the idea that God encompasses both existence and non-existence is a big assumption, as these concepts are not treated as dualities. Rather, they stem from the attributes of light and darkness. In the series, only light and darkness are treated as dualities according to the scans on the cosmology blog.

There is also Subspace, which is described as its own kind of Void. If supporters of Tensura can prove that God encompasses Subspace with supporting scans, then I could see a case for limited NEP type 1. However, God-Key Velda does not fully encompass Subspace. He still exists and has not demonstrated any feats that indicate pure non-existence. Furthermore, this Subspace does not qualify for NEP type 2, as it is not the conventional form of "nothingness" required to prove NEP type 2 for God.

So obviously NEP type 2 justification scan is misleading. Hence it should be downgraded to limited NEP type 1 if they can prove Velda God key encompasses Subspace.

Isn't that a bit of an exaggeration? God has been said to encompass everything and even in the current main story he is said to be All-Encompassing and how do you say he doesn't encompass Subspace? Everything that exists in the verse is part of God. Just because he "exists" as you say doesn't mean he doesn't encompass Subspace.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

This are The reasons why things derived from them should be treated as Dualities i guess

Only duality found in your scans are light and darkness and two more scans are irrelevant to duality arguments.

God encompasses everything that Veldanava created. The World of Darkness [Darkness being nonexistence/void] IS a part of the cosmology.

About the "they are not treated as dualities" part, You still haven't replied to this:


You seriously need to know what all-encompassing means

Stop taking my argument out of context. I didn't say God doesn't encompasses everything. I said he doesn't encompasses existence and non Existence in a way you claim to be. I was talking about no proof for existence and non Existence being a duality here

Isn't that a bit of an exaggeration? God has been said to encompass everything and even in the current main story he is said to be All-Encompassing and how do you say he doesn't encompass Subspace? Everything that exists in the verse is part of God. Just because he "exists" as you say doesn't mean he doesn't encompass Subspace.

Read what I said above I'm not saying he doesn't encompasses everything. I'm saying he doesn't encompasses dualities of existence and non Existence like you people are making a claim.

 

[Dereck03]

@Tempestdragon6 please refrain of making passive aggressive threats to other users.

 

[Tempestdragon6]

wow nice try i saw that

 

[Digital_Franz]

Read what I said above I'm not saying he doesn't encompasses everything. I'm saying he doesn't encompasses dualities of existence and non Existence like you people are making a claim.

I read and understood. But you say God does not fully encompass Subspace which is wrong.

 

[Dog3352]

@Astral_Trinity439

I wasn't even going to mention anything, mainly because this is a repeat of what you said before and still doesn't prove that the void being invoked by a darkness spell makes the darkness spell the void itself.

But I will quote this:

A bottomless darkness was about to envelop Vega, just like the one directed at Zelanus.
It's the power of Void that comes from the Abyss.
"Abyss" refers to Hell.
Proves that Darkness : Void/Nonexistence

Just like in other magic, here it is also said that the void comes from hell, it doesn't really change anything.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I read and understood. But you say God does not fully encompass Subspace which is wrong.

I didn't say that? Or there might be a misunderstanding. I'm asking for scans where it shows Subspace is a part of God. And even if it is he doesn't only encompasses Subspace. He also encompasses everything else so it's only limited NEP type 1. That's what I meant.

 

[Tempestdragon6]

you're are freaking fool you don't even understand what's being presented to you are you threaten huh when we're just merely trying to explain properly and you're not taking it seriously you're too blind

 

[CodeCCLL]

My final conclusion is, NEP 2 bye.

So what do you think of NEP 1 for God? If NEP 1 remains, you need to specify which aspects will be present. By default, the God would have Aspect Type 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 [Law] due to lack of True Dragon physiology.

 

[Tempestdragon6]

@Tempestdragon6 please refrain of making passive aggressive threats to other users.

I Know what I'm doing and I'm not threatening him I'm just getting irritated on how Brantley ignoring the evidence

 

[Dereck03]

So what do you think of NEP 1 for God? If NEP 1 remains, you need to specify which aspects will be present. By default, the God would have Aspect Type 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 [Law] due to lack of True Dragon physiology.

I'll take a look at those. Give me a bit.

 

[Digital_Franz]

I didn't say that?

You did.

Or there might be a misunderstanding. I'm asking for scans where it shows Subspace is a part of God.

God is All-Encompassing. It's self explanatory. Astral has given scans where it says God is All-Encompassing.

And even if it is he doesn't only encompasses Subspace. He also encompasses everything else

Yeah.

 

[Digital_Franz]

you're are freaking fool you don't even understand what's being presented to you are you threaten huh when we're just merely trying to explain properly and you're not taking it seriously you're too blind

Calm down a little bit.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

You did.

God is All-Encompassing. It's self explanatory. Astral has given scans where it says God is All-Encompassing.

Yeah.

I already said I'm not denying it. I'm talking about Existence and non Existence part which is not treated as dualities. God doesn't encompasses that's. Because dualities based on this doesn't exists in the series. Only light and darkness attributes has solid statement for dualities.
He encompasses other things sure.

 

[The_golden_and_silver_house94]

Only duality found in your scans are light and darkness and two more scans are irrelevant to duality arguments.

Stop taking my argument out of context. I didn't say God doesn't encompasses everything. I said he doesn't encompasses existence and non Existence in a way you claim to be. I was talking about no proof for existence and non Existence being a duality here

Read what I said above I'm not saying he doesn't encompasses everything. I'm saying he doesn't encompasses dualities of existence and non Existence like you people are making a claim.

The scans say that the opposing relationship is in response to each other ,if there is emptiness there must be something to oppose that
Also if god encompasses both existence and non existence ,how is he not neither of those if he also encompasses contradictions

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The scans say that the opposing relationship is in response to each other ,if there is emptiness there must be something to oppose that
Also if god encompasses both existence and non existence ,how is he not neither of those if he also encompasses contradictions

No limit fallacy brother. Only duality so far mentioned was light and darkness. You are just pushing it for everything in the verse without any statements.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

In itself preceding these states could be enough, but the necessary proof lies in the physiology itself, the user must be nonexistent, that is the main requirement, if the user is part of something that precedes the nothingness and the existence as in this example is the subspace,

Existence[the world] and nonexistence[GS of darkness or the world of darkness] is itself created by Veldanava[the non-omnipotent version], so God[that existed far before veldanava and is the source of all things] would ultimately precede both of them as well.

Also, I forgot, but another void, in fact, exists in tensura, one that God clearly precedes.
First, skills are part of the laws of the world, said laws were created by Veldanava [thus, we can conclude that veldanava{and thus God as well} existed before them]. That naturally includes Rimuru's skill from Gluttony, "Stomach".
Rimuru's stomach is Metaphysical, but above all, it's a Void. The same holds for some skills like Unlimited Imprisonment.

you must show that this subspace is not simply a conventional nothingness that simply already existed, here what is shown is that the 2 nothingnesses are the same since there is no elaboration, applying the physiology that the subspace is type 2 just by existing prior without proving a physiology of superior nothingness is what is wrong here, because there is no evidence.

What about this?
Something like the Underworld/World of Darkness[Nonexistence] is a Spiritual World; If a physical world completely lacks magicules, spiritual worlds are the exact opposite of that, that is, they would be filled with magicules. That is, even "Void" or "Nonexistence" here is made up of magicules [not saying magicules are NEP, they're more like a universal essence that makes up almost everything].
However, Subspace lacks even magicules.

So that should give enough supporting evidence that subspace lacks not only existence but also conventional nonexistence

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

@Astral_Trinity439

I wasn't even going to mention anything, mainly because this is a repeat of what you said before and still doesn't prove that the void being invoked by a darkness spell makes the darkness spell the void itself.

But I will quote this:

Just like in other magic, here it is also said that the void comes from hell, it doesn't really change anything.

The void coming from hell doesn’t change the fact that the DARKNESS IS THE VOID. Said void coming from hell a world of darkness doesn’t debunk anything.

A bottomless darkness was about to envelop Vega, just like the one directed at Zelanus

It's the power of the Void.

The bottomless darkness is the power of the void.