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TenSura WN Major Revision - Part 15: 1-A~0 Entries

PHANtomFELdway said:
This is NOT needed
Click to expand...
yes it is
maxresdefault.jpg
 
Astral_Trinity439 said:
The Kanji is 魔物, 魔 means Magic, and 物 means Element/Essence. It is the fundamental building block of reality

You also know very damn well that magic essence is conceptual in tensura, right? That is made clear in the blog
Click to expand...
Bruh in your translation, you change the word energy to essence. My problem are in this word エネルギー, but you bring a completely different word, but okay

魔物 literally mean monster or devil if it a one word, i dont know where you found it mean magic essence

魔物 - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

en.m.wiktionary.org en.m.wiktionary.org

And also this 物 doesnt mean element or even essence, it just mean "thing", this word being used for showing a something

物 - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

en.m.wiktionary.org en.m.wiktionary.org

Even if it translated as element, element and essence are not same. Element are contituent of something and essence are the property that makes something what it is
Just search and AI will answer it

Being a concept doesnt mean being a essence
Astral_Trinity439 said:
Did you even care to read something?
I need not educate you on what Property or Quality of something means now, do I?
Click to expand...
I mean in here whatness are a (one of) abstraction quality of something not a representation or something it self, i doesnt mean being stated as property are same as being the whatness
Just search

You need a direct statement of whatness, like "concept of time are what that makes time are time" "concept of time are what that define the time it self"

It literally a universal concept or some abstaction adds with whatness statement
Astral_Trinity439 said:
If your argument is based on just examples of verses getting accepted via reasoning A so reasoning A must be what is used in all cases, I recommend you stop because its not gonna get you anywhere.
Click to expand...
Astral_Trinity439 said:
I give a translation and you say it is not trustable, I give you a word-to-word dictionary translation and you say I am manipulating the translation and its not trusted, I give a literal example of japanese people using it with yog Sothoth's All-in-one thingy, and you ask me what logic I am using? If your only goal is derailing with no solid arguments, just stop.

If you oh so hate my translation, you can bring a few translation group staff here. Though would be preferable if many came rather than just one.
Click to expand...
Astral_Trinity439 said:
The alternatives linked in the page are Mtl, I hope you clearly understood that seeing the literal language selection boxes in those pics. The one I just gave is a Kanji to Kanji dictionary-transIation which incIudes researching what japanese people use the term for. I don't understand why people find this so hard to understand lmao
Click to expand...
Bruh.... i confuse on what i must start in this topic

About same kanji as yog. Bro, dont cut the phrase, just because there are some same words in a phrase it doesnt mean the context of phrase is same

In yog phrase 一にして全なる者 (all in/becoming one), he literally have this 一にして words that you cut. When you translate that it say "at once" "in one" or "inside one". So yog literally have a words that describe his encompassing nature

In your case you just have this 全なる者 words, that translated as "to become all". This 者 word if uses after a noun or adjective it mean someone or something, it are auxiliary word or to express the opinion or na-adjective to describe noun or a pronoun, so without context that word is ambiguous, but it more likely to express something if without context. this word なる is a verb of "to become"

Also your phrase have one more words that are 完, so the phrase are 完全なる者, that mean "to become perfect", this 完全 word literally translated as "perfect". It mean the phrase talking about perfection not encompassing all

Japanese word "完全", mean "perfection"

This page is regarding "完全" which means "perfection".
jitenon.com jitenon.com
dictionary.cambridge.org

完全

完全 - translate into Japanese with the Japanese-English Dictionary - Cambridge Dictionary
dictionary.cambridge.org dictionary.cambridge.org

So it never translated as "all-inclusive/all encompassing" or "all in one", the word "in one" that indicating encompassing nature are never in the phrase since the beginning, you just add it to mislead people
Astral_Trinity439 said:
Not really an argument, you are saying it is this and not that yet you haven't even touched the Kanji yet; I noticed how I explained the placement of the Kanji which can mean both in and upon, and you completely ignored that. I do not need you to tell me what full means, I need you to prove to me why we must only use in when the japanese kanji can also be directly translated as upon, which results in the word embraced being used, when that also literally goes along with the narrative structure about what is already said about Holy Spirits?

of course, if you think I am lying about it being translated as upon, here is the dictionary:
Click to expand...
Bruh embraced was never exist in those phrase. That word can change depend on context of the phrase, the word 満ちている is literally translated as filled, it is more natural and correct for translate the phrase as "power filled in nothingness" than "power filled upon nothingness", filled indicating it was inside not outside. Also filled in are the correct phrase
translated it as "upon" will make it gramatically incorrect that make you must change some word to make it correct
Translated it as "in" are more correct and natural, also you doesnt have to change the word for make it correct
Astral_Trinity439 said:
Sigh, fixxed, let me ask you, do you know the difference between Mtl and self-translations using the literal dictionary?
Click to expand...
Astral_Trinity439 said:
oh really, I wonder why no staff is complaining when literally many other verses in the 1-A~0 range are using direct translations rather than official translation?
And, mind you, my translation is not Mtl. I directly translated it using dictionary, and most if not all of my previous translations are trusted by staff members.

Ever wondered why Ultima did not care about something like translation manipulation when I used the raws when arguing against them? Yeah, using RAWs in threads that grant high tiers such as this is not a probIem since anyone can check the accuracy of the transIation themseIves if they so wish
Click to expand...
You literally throwing bunch of deepL translation

Yeah thats the one of problem, dictionary just have the words, you must translate it word by word, but when it become a phrase or even a sentence it already have context behind it, you cannot just translate it word by word, you must translate it all at once, but dictonary doenst have that (unless you wanna say tensura's raw was already being translated in some dictionary)

The problem it will make you cerry picking what translation of word that you want without even looking at the context

Astral_Trinity439 said:
For some reason, it seems you believe I only use Mtl when I have stated it many times that I check its validity myself through dictionaries as a human.

If you think mine are not trusted, feel free to call staff on me. But do not just go around trying to say I am wrong and you are right when you have not even provide a single relevant kanji explanation nor any actuaI source to back them up.
Click to expand...
What i wanna say you change some of the translation that you get from MTL that already slightly incorrect to be more incorrect

So if MTL is not allowed then your more incorrect translation should't, you literally change some word that change the phrase meaning
 
I hope this thread still open till january, this is my last comment until the real debunk. Very busy for Christmass and new year
 
Fixxed said:
Bruh in your translation, you change the word energy to essence. My problem are in this word エネルギー, but you bring a completely different word, but okay
Click to expand...
Mind you, Magic Essence has the Kanji 魔物, Japanese has different styIes, if you didnt aIready know.
In case you think I am talking nonsense, here:
tXwGi7q.png

The term you are using is either Hiragana or Katakana, tho idk which one exactly among the two, but definitely not Kanji.
Fixxed said:
魔物 literally mean monster or devil if it a one word, i dont know where you found it mean magic essence
Click to expand...
Ever heard of the fact that the word Demon Iord is just, most of the times, an aIternative transIation of Magic Iord? I think one exampIe was from Trinity Seven, but just in case you start saying oh, but that verse may have a unique case, here is something to engIighten you:
oQEUlFf.png

In japanese, magic and demons are often associated with each other, thus why the kanji is the same as for them.
Fixxed said:
And also this 物 doesnt mean element or even essence, it just mean "thing", this word being used for showing a something

物 - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

en.m.wiktionary.org en.m.wiktionary.org
Even if it translated as element, element and essence are not same. Element are contituent of something and essence are the property that makes something what it is
Just search and AI will answer it
https://www.google.com/search?q=are...oq=are+element+and+essence+same+in+philosophy
Being a concept doesnt mean being a essence
Click to expand...
I did not say essence means being a concept. What I said is that Magic Essence/Element, whatever you call it at this point, is a conceptual energy, it makes up Reality in the sense that it is what the Great Spirits are made up of, said great spirits are the aspects/qualities of reality, i.e., that which makes up what reality is. Magic makes up the astral body, without which it wont exist. It also constitutes monsters and is the basis of their existence.

And, just so you know, the same fan translation that you claim is far better then me before also calls it Magic Essence. lol.
Magic Power, Magic Energy, Magic Essence, Magic Element, etc. all refer to the same thing. Even the fan translation translates the kanji to all of those terms in different instances.

And, again, in case u think Im using fake scans regarding the translation of both magic and essence, here is the original translator confirming it, which you so claim was truly neutral and not biased.
JgRwGat.png

Are you gonna call them biased too just because they do not follow what you said? Bruh.
Also, Magic Essence also defines their existence; messing with magic essence results in change in the very existence of a being. And, if you did not get it already, Magic Essence is what the Great Spirits are made up of, Conceptual Energy, they collectively define the physical world, but they themselves are conceptual in nature.
XReVNHc.png

Fixxed said:
Bruh.... i confuse on what i must start in this topic

About same kanji as yog. Bro, dont cut the phrase, just because there are some same words in a phrase it doesnt mean the context of phrase is same

In yog phrase 一にして全なる者 (all in/becoming one), he literally have this 一にして words that you cut. When you translate that it say "at once" "in one" or "inside one". So yog literally have a words that describe his encompassing nature
In your case you just have this 全なる者 words, that translated as "to become all". This 者 word if uses after a noun or adjective it mean someone or something, it are auxiliary word or to express the opinion or na-adjective to describe noun or a pronoun, so without context that word is ambiguous, but it more likely to express something if without context. this word なる is a verb of "to become"

Also your phrase have one more words that are 完, so the phrase are 完全なる者, that mean "to become perfect", this 完全 word literally translated as "perfect". It mean the phrase talking about perfection not encompassing all
Click to expand...
lmao... no. The Kanji you pointed out is yet a part of another bigger Kanji.
全にして一 一にして全なる者
The first phrase indicates his All-in-one, aka one-ness, and the second phrase is one-in-all, aka many-ness. And do you know what is the only difference between the kanji used for true dragons, and the kanji used in the second half of yog;s kanji, aka the many-ness indicator?
No, Im not talking about the Kanji you are talking about in the last line, but the Kanji you did not write when you were talking about it.... Talk about dont cut the phrase...
Anyways, this is the fuII Kanji for true dragons:
個にして完全なる者
Click to expand...
And this is the fuII kanji for yog;s second part:
一にして全なる者
Click to expand...
And what do you see as the difference here? Its the following:
  • For Yog, the term used is 一, which means one, and for true dragons, the term used is 個, which also means one. In fact, Yog;s kanji is the weaker one in japanese in terms of indicating one as in singuIar-ness, because it can mean both one, as weII only, amon a certain set of things. But the kanji for true dragons means Individual, that which cannot be divided further. With that singIe Kanji, true dragons are aIso indicated as being oneness, that cannot be divided, aka an indivisibIe oneness.
  • The other difference is that for Yog, the Kanji used is 全, which simpIy means AII, and for True Dragons, the Kanji used is 完全, which means AII in the sense of CompIete-ness/ontological perfection.
Quoting the japanese wikipedia for the Iatter one:

adverb​

[ edit ]
completely
  1. reach the highest level without any room for increase
    Completely correct / completely correct - wánquán zhèngquè
    I'm completely awake . ― Wǒ wánquán qīngxǐng.
    He was completely unaware . ― Tā wánquán bù zhīqíng.
Click to expand...
of course, here, its being used to indicate the compIeteness of an action, whiIe in true dragon;s case, it is being used to indicate their nature. Yes, when 者, the last part of the kanji, is used after something or with something it, it means a person/being of that nature. When used alone, it just means person. Do your research correctly before talking about a language you dont understand.

When the kanji is used as an adjective, aka to describe someone or something:
completely
  1. There are no shortcomings . What is missing is nothing that can be added .
    Complete     facilities . / Complete facilities . ― Shèshī wánquán .
Click to expand...
It indicates a state of someone that is so complete and all-inclusive that nothing can more can be added to it.
As for the words derived from this:

Derived vocabulary​

[ edit ]
Click to expand...
There you have it. Combined with the fact that its nearIy the exactsame kanji as used for Yog Sothoth, with the difference being that the minorIy different kanji for this actuaIIy indicates the same thing but to a higher/highest degree, we can see that True Dragon;s case is even more solid in case of indicating many-ness. Plus, unlike with Yog, the author minimized the size and indicated individuaI-ness/one-ness and many-ness/compIeteness in the same kanji. In Yog's case, the Kanji just indicates being aII-encompassing, but in tensura's case, it indicates a form of aII-encompassing-ness that aIso cannot be divided/is irreducibIe.
Fixxed said:

Japanese word "完全", mean "perfection"

This page is regarding "完全" which means "perfection".
jitenon.com jitenon.com
dictionary.cambridge.org

完全

完全 - translate into Japanese with the Japanese-English Dictionary - Cambridge Dictionary
dictionary.cambridge.org dictionary.cambridge.org
https://www.japandict.com/%E5%AE%8C%E5%85%A8
So it never translated as "all-inclusive/all encompassing" or "all in one", the word "in one" that indicating encompassing nature are never in the phrase since the beginning, you just add it to mislead people
Click to expand...
let me ask you a question. Is that an argument or a joke? The very page you linked as perfection says otherwise:
CpuZ0La.png

zcfbERh.png

The Kanji means Perfection in the ontological sense, the state/nature of being all/complete.
Fixxed said:
Bruh embraced was never exist in those phrase. That word can change depend on context of the phrase, the word 満ちている is literally translated as filled, it is more natural and correct for translate the phrase as "power filled in nothingness" than "power filled upon nothingness", filled indicating it was inside not outside. Also filled in are the correct phrase
https://www.google.com/search?q=what+more+correct+filled+in+or+filled+upon&oq=what+more+correct+filled+in+or+filled+upon translated it as "upon" will make it gramatically incorrect that make you must change some word to make it correct
Translated it as "in" are more correct and natural, also you doesnt have to change the word for make it correct
Click to expand...
How bad do you want your Grammar skills to be? 😭
lemme quote what I said before, because you really didnt counter a single thing lol:
The Kanji for Void/Emptiness is 虚無, that for fiIIed/fuII that you are speaking of is 満, however, the Iine aIso has the Kanji に, which can mean both Upon and in according to dictionary, which resuIts in the difference Iike FiIIed and Embraced, since with in, a correct transIation wouId be FiIIed, and with Upon, a more correct one wouId be Embraced.
Click to expand...
The Kanji used can mean both in and upon. If we treat it as in, of course, fiIIed wiII be a better word, whereas if we treat it as upon, of course, Embraced wiII be a better word.
What you searched on google was Grammar for filled, of course, the word in wiII be used with it. But that entireIy ignores the fact that it can also be translated as upon. If you're gonna yap about Grammar, understand the opponent's words first and what he is saying, aka what I am yapping.
Fixxed said:
You literally throwing bunch of deepL translation

Yeah thats the one of problem, dictionary just have the words, you must translate it word by word, but when it become a phrase or even a sentence it already have context behind it, you cannot just translate it word by word, you must translate it all at once, but dictonary doenst have that (unless you wanna say tensura's raw was already being translated in some dictionary)

The problem it will make you cerry picking what translation of word that you want without even looking at the context
Click to expand...
Mate, I gave a bunch of transIations solely because people can see that I am not nitpicking on as singIe transIation. Not onIy are you not understanding what is the reason for me using it, but you are aIso making your own concIusions of me misIeading people, bruh.
Dictionary has words, but it is also a collection of words in proper grammar that make up a sentence.
Rather then me nitpicking on a specific transIation, it is technicaIIy you who is doing that by saying that for the power embracing/fiIIing the void part.
Fixxed said:
What i wanna say you change some of the translation that you get from MTL that already slightly incorrect to be more incorrect

So if MTL is not allowed then your more incorrect translation should't, you literally change some word that change the phrase meaning
Click to expand...
As I have said, if you think my translation is purely Mtl or if its wrong/incorrect, you are completely free to call the translation staff on me. No one is stopping you from doing that except yourself. Be my guest in doing so.
But if you want to keep saying my translation is wrong while you yourself fail to understand that your own grammar is wrong, I can only agree to disagree, I guess, and leave it to staff, rather than letting you derail the thread.
 
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