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Tensura Light Novel Revision : That Slime Is True Dragon

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ImmortalDread said:
Which is wrong again, it should be having been AE type 2 (or better, a higher degree of AE type 2) but not limited.
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i'm not knowledgeable enough on the topic of a higher degree of AE2, but its shouldn't be type 2. AE2 is reserved for those who is reliant on abstract, type 1 is the abstract itself. The body of Spiritual Lifeform would technically be AE2 since its relies on their true form (soul), and the soul itself is type 1. however, they (spiritual being) are only a soul, and the physical body aren't naturally part of them. I would compare it to how the true form of a character wouldn't has type 9 immortality, but the avatar should.
 
Andytrenom said:
Cloth manipulation is creation instead

I need context for immortality type 8

Don't think there's enough proof for abstract existence here

Rest is fine imo
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Guy Crimson called the True Dragon a Natural Phenomenon.
“Umm, while those three might seem to be dragging each other back, the truth is that it was their way of entertaining themselves. But it is true I had nothing to do with them. Guy, I wanted to ask you something too. Do you think that there could be people stronger than us in this world?”
Diablo responded to Guy’s doubts with a question, similar to the one he had asked Testarossa. Such a statement was common sense among the primordial demons, Guy being no exception, so it was easier to get a response.
“Probably no—if I had to give an answer, probably ‘True Dragons,’ but they are more like natural phenomena.” (Volume 11)
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'cause the True Dragon is the Holy Will Of Nature
Existing only as Will since they existed
“Hahahaha, because I am not omniscient nor omnipotent. When I was born, all I had was my will. At that time, I was satisfied. The world was perfect and lacked nothing when I was the only one—in other words, it was boring, right?” (Epilogue Volume 16)
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And will continue to exist as long as their Will exists.
As I told you, then, I lack the ability to produce offspring. The reason is simple… Because I do not need to. I am of the dragon race—one of only four in the world, both unique and the most perfect of my kind. You will hereby know me as Veldora, the Storm Dragon! My life span is infinite, my flesh unfathomable! As long as my will remains intact, I shall be ever alive! Ahhhhh-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!
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And they're a Source Of The World/Root of the world. In other word, they're a concept of nature
 
As Andy said, Cloth Manipulation sounds like creation, unsure about Abstract Resistance, but the rest looks good.
 
The reason why AE1 is not accepted by Dread is because of the material body?

If it's because of the material body, isn't that weird? Material bodies are needed to be able to continue to defend themselves in the upper world. The material body also cannot be called the original body as far as I know,but if it's because of the way it interacts as I recall, magic has been determined to be able to touch, attack,and interact with spiritual beings which is a concept? In other words, the problem of interacting by every monster and its weapon is not a problem because the weapon has Mana that can indeed touch concept creatures. If it weren't for both, I wouldn't have commented further.
 
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It can't be AE type 1 if it is not pure abstraction (and having a physical body or material body indeed discard this), as I said, this is a higher degree of AE type 2.

There is no limited AE type 1 where there is a pure abstraction and a physical body. This is nonsense. Nothing in the standards imply this and if it does (let's go with this logic), AE type 2 will be pointless if then.
 
ImmortalDread said:
It can't be AE type 1 if it is not pure abstraction (and having a physical body or material body indeed discard this), as I said, this is a higher degree of AE type 2.

There is no limited AE type 1 where there is a pure abstraction and a physical body. This is nonsense. Nothing in the standards imply this and if it does (let's go with this logic), AE type 2 will be pointless if then.
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If I change to another example, if a concept creates an avatar or some kind of new physical body to go down somewhere for a while it means that the concept can't be called an abstract anymore if one day he releases the avatar?
 
ImmortalDread said:
It can't be AE type 1 if it is not pure abstraction (and having a physical body or material body indeed discard this), as I said, this is a higher degree of AE type 2.

There is no limited AE type 1 where there is a pure abstraction and a physical body. This is nonsense. Nothing in the standards imply this and if it does (let's go with this logic), AE type 2 will be pointless if then.
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Waitttttt, I just found out there's an AE2 higher degree.
 
Rizkykarbit said:
If I change to another example, if a concept creates an avatar or some kind of new physical body to go down somewhere for a while it means that the concept can't be called an abstract anymore if one day he releases the avatar?
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There is here no avatar creation in our instance. The concept has a physical body, he ain't pure abstraction in our vsbw definition.
 
ImmortalDread said:
There is here no avatar creation in our instance. The concept has a physical body, he ain't pure abstraction in our vsbw definition.
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They possess and not fuse, merge or whatever makes them have a physical body forever and cannot escape, if they can't escape and lose a physical body I agree but it's not a permanent body that will make their abstraction disappear. It's impossible for me to be a car if I'm only in the car to drive

Regarding avatars, it's just an example that is identical to the Tensura case.
 
ImmortalDread said:
There is here no avatar creation in our instance. The concept has a physical body, he ain't pure abstraction in our vsbw definition.
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The analogy for the material body in Tensura I might use as a driver and car,

Rider (Abstract being) and car (material body)

As a driver, I use a car to be able to travel somewhere by entering and driving the car, can I not return to being human and will merge with the car? The answer is that I am sure to remain a human being outside or in the car because the car is only a support for me to be able to travel faster.
 
Oh, if it is example, you can DM or write it in the wall as it is completely irrelevant here.
 
ImmortalDread said:
Oh, if it is example, you can DM or write it in the wall as it is completely irrelevant here.
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I don't understand why the case of possessing someone is irrelevant to possessing an avatar that has been created. I seem to be stopping here because even with examples like drivers and cars you can't understand, so I'll say goodbye
 
Having a Vessel or Avatar when your true form is abstract does not make you lose your abstractness.

Also, any Spiritual Lifeform could leave their physical bodies if they wanted to. In fact they had already left their physical bodies when they became Spiritual Lifeforms, just like Benimaru. That's why they have Incorporeality.

Also, True Dragons have absolutely no relation to their bodies. They are literally just a Will, the Will of Nature itself. The body that we see is the result of the beliefs of the people around them. they have absolutely no attachment to that body, For their true being is abstract, Will itself.
 
But there is no vessel or avatar in verse, so what are you trying to achieve here?

We don't give AE type 2 users type 1 because they left their body.
 
Thunderian said:
Having a Vessel or Avatar when your true form is abstract does not make you lose your abstractness.

Also, any Spiritual Lifeform could leave their physical bodies if they wanted to. In fact they had already left their physical bodies when they became Spiritual Lifeforms, just like Benimaru. That's why they have Incorporeality.

Also, True Dragons have absolutely no relation to their bodies. They are literally just a Will, the Will of Nature itself. The body that we see is the result of the beliefs of the people around them. they have absolutely no attachment to that body, For their true being is abstract, Will itself.
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I disagree with abstract existence type 1 and the reason is obvious
due to the page of becoming abstract existence on a type 1 level is to become a certain abstraction and to interfere with them you interfere with the abstraction itself
you see True dragons can be killed although they'll resurrect affecting them doesn't touch the very concept they represent because it's due to their concept existing that's why they keep reviving sure they are type 2 concepts but they won't get conceptual manipulation type 2 only rimuru can tho since he could fuse himself into a dragon factor
this is AE2 higher degree according to dread because they actually lack true physical bodies and don't have a core which is deeper than the soul this is what dread is trying to say
True dragons aren't abstract existences on a type 1 level although they should be akin to it they can't be it and limited isn't allowed so higher degree type 2 makes sense
 
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