Tensura Light Novel Revision : That Slime Is True Dragon

[Starfeldway]

But there is no vessel or avatar in verse, so what are you trying to achieve here?

We don't give AE type 2 users type 1 because they left their body.

yeah

 

[Starfeldway]

this is it
Type 1: Exists purely as an abstraction. These characters lack a true physical form, and affecting them requires the ability to affect directly the abstraction itself, because eventual physical manifestations are merely avatars.

unless you're saying anyone who can harm a true dragon can actually have conceptual manipulation type 2
which is absolutely wrong and funny

but this;
Type 2: Embodies an abstraction, and can be resurrected or regenerate indefinitely thanks to it. Destroying the abstraction is required to permanently kill those characters, but they can still be affected without directly altering

if you notice type 2 is what a true dragon truly is akin to
for that part of Veldanava telling guy he was just a will/consciousness
he wasn't a true dragon but The God at that point in time
so in tensura only prime Veldanava can get Abstract existence type 1
I hope you understand thunderian I took my time to explain

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

And will continue to exist as long as their Will exists.

 

[Mafuuu]

this is it
Type 1: Exists purely as an abstraction. These characters lack a true physical form, and affecting them requires the ability to affect directly the abstraction itself, because eventual physical manifestations are merely avatars.

unless you're saying anyone who can harm a true dragon can actually have conceptual manipulation type 2
which is absolutely wrong and funny

Let's simplify, it's said that the true dragon is Will itself, while you know that many characters in tensura very easily and even often interact with Will, such as when getting skills or so on. Interacting with Will itself is not impossible in the tensura, because Will here is a common thing.

Actually, CM2 itself does require additional feats, but a true dragon that gets AE1 from Will is not a difficult thing to understand and is obvious.

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

Also

Why does it seem as if people think AE type 1 doesn't exist yet in LN? As if no one has gotten AE type 1 yet?

'Veldanava the only char to get AE type 1'

Bruh, AE type 1 has been in LN since Volume 11 with the presence of Manas.

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

Also

Why does it seem as if people think AE type 1 doesn't exist yet in LN? As if no one has gotten AE type 1 yet?

'Veldanava the only char to get AE type 1'

Bruh, AE type 1 has been in LN since Volume 11 with the presence of Manas.

Even Rimuru has Limited AE type 1 based on Information

 

[ImmortalDread]

And will continue to exist as long as their Will exists.

This is literally proving further that it is type 2 and not type 1.

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

Bruh

Will is their true form, and of course as long as their Will exists they will continue to exist.

I even clearly called the True Dragon the Holy WILL of Nature and WILL ITSELF

Are my words ignored?

 

[Starfeldway]

more like dragons

factor

 

[Starfeldway]

"of nature"

Bruh

Will is their true form, and of course as long as their Will exists they will continue to exist.

I even clearly called the True Dragon the Holy WILL of Nature and WILL ITSELF

Are my words ignored?

 

[RaveeCPN]

Also, True Dragons have absolutely no relation to their bodies. They are literally just a Will, the Will of Nature itself. The body that we see is the result of the beliefs of the people around them. they have absolutely no attachment to that body, For their true being is abstract, Will itself.

If this is true, then I don't see any problem for AE type 1.

And I also agree with everything else as well

 

[Starfeldway]

Even digital lifeforms are very questionable regarding they only turned all matter into information particle and not turning into information itself although it contains things that are abstract which i found funny

it's close to having no mass at all If it's close to but still have mass I doubt it's AE1

 

[Starfeldway]

you're making less sense here, characters interfere with will by having skills what are you even saying

Let's simplify, it's said that the true dragon is Will itself, while you know that many characters in tensura very easily and even often interact with Will, such as when getting skills or so on. Interacting with Will itself is not impossible in the tensura, because Will here is a common thing.

Actually, CM2 itself does require additional feats, but a true dragon that gets AE1 from Will is not a difficult thing to understand and is obvious.

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

If this is true

Thats true

 

[Mafuuu]

you're making less sense here, characters interfere with will by having skills what are you even saying

And yeah? In the end, they can interact with the will, right?

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

Thats true

Hmm… To tell the truth, I do not need any core at all… You can keep a secret, I trust? As I said, I am both unique and the most perfect of my kind. A fully unique creation, one that takes purely spiritual form. I have no particular attachment to this body. It is merely the faith of those who live around me that forms the shape you see. (Volume 1)

 

[Starfeldway]

I'll remain neutral due to thunderian arguments but I'll make it clear
due to the fact to interfere with characters that are abstract existences they have to interfere with the abstraction itself which is clear I will not even consider Mafuuu arguments about interfering with will using skills LOL
skills are gotten through desires of the individual
I wonder how this relates with interfering with abstract existences, yes they are very logical arguments that can be used like saying they don't need a physical body that's simply non-physical interaction and intangibility, about them saying they can't die as long as their will exist
is simply a perfect declaration of defeat of your AE1 arguments
Type 2: Embodies an abstraction, and can be resurrected or regenerate indefinitely thanks to it. Destroying the abstraction is required to permanently kill those characters, but they can still be affected without directly altering it.
and true dragons are holy will "of"nature which is kinda clear what it is here
I'll make an example of Abstract existences on a type 1 level is chaos by (Castlevania)
Reason ; 1; Is the Concept of Chaos itself, and is a far superior Concept than Death who's[9] the[10] literal[11] abstract[11] concept of death[12])

I'm neutral because they are arguments like
they can still exist as their abstraction to a point and the reason they believe Veldanava is still alive
which he is, is why to a point True dragons are abstract existences type 1....to a point but know affecting them won't affect that very concept they represent at all which further contradicts alot

 

[Starfeldway]

well let's just say they are both? is that possible?

 

[Catpija]

But there is no vessel or avatar in verse, so what are you trying to achieve here?

There are, though.

Hey, so now that the seal’s gone and everything, you wanna go see what’s going on outside?”
“Ah, yes. But what will we do about a vessel to serve as my physical body?”
“I think we can find a way to make that happen, but there’s something I want you to promise me, all right?”
“Oh? What is that?”
“Your aura’s too huge. I want you to hold it back for me. We have human beings in town now, as well as a variety of weaker monsters. If you show up in resurrected form over there, it’s gonna wreck everything, won’t it?”
“…Ah. You really have become a king, haven’t you? All right. You have my word!”
Obtaining this firm promise was the whole reason I went so deep into this cave in the first place. I needed to be sure he could keep that crazy flow of magicules in check. Once I had his word, I unleashed my brand-new Enhanced Replication, or whatever it was called. This was the vessel I had in mind for Veldora—an exact duplicate of me, handsome face and everything.
…Well, huh. No wonder Vester fell for me. I had matured from before, taller and more grown-up. Bewitching, even. Must be the evolution affecting me.
“Hmm. Is that your intention…?”
“Yep. Use it as your vessel.”
“Gah-ha-ha-ha-ha! I see! Very well, then!” (Volume 5, Chapter 5)

 

[Starfeldway]

do you know what will is in this case?

And yeah? In the end, they can interact with the will, right?

 

[Starfeldway]

anyways leaning toward agreeing with the abstract existence type 1

 

[Catpija]

it's close to having no mass at all If it's close to but still have mass I doubt it's AE1

What? This statement have been proved to be mistranslation.

 

[Starfeldway]

I see, didn't know about it, like I said am agreeing to it anyways no need, reasons is because of volume 16 explaining Veldanava saying he could "recreate his own body" right now he is the perfect definition of Abstract existence on a type 1 level just like other true dragons btw @Thunderian I would like to add conceptual manipulation type 2 for rimuru for becoming a true dragon he fuse dragon factor to his soul didn't he, yeah he did

 

[ImmortalDread]

This scan that you sent right now, are you aware that his vessel is nowhere different to him? And the last sentence kinda contradicts that he is pure abstraction when he explicitly stated he is duplicated.

I hardly disagree with AE type 1. It's type 2 for me.

 

[Catpija]

Bro is definitely trolling right now

Rimuru used Enhanced Replication to create a body as a vessel for Veldora.

 

[ImmortalDread]

No, it's literally explicated stated duplicated, not created.

When you duplicate something, then something already existed, not created.

 

[Catpija]

Dread, can you show me the part where it said that Veldora is a duplication of Rimuru?

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

The vessel that Veldora was using was a duplicate of Rimuru's body. It was like Rimuru created an empty body similar to him for Veldora to use.

The scene in the anime Season two is clear.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I did not watch season 2. I am still entitled that it is at best, higher degree of type 2 as there is absolutely no proof of any pure abstraction here. And regenerating as long as will exists is further proof of benefits listed in type 2.

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

'As long as I exist, I will continue to exist'

Is that benefit of AE type 2?

So Am I AE type 2?

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Tbh im leaning to agree with AE1
But there is almost nothing about that AE1 is relevant enough for them that you could simply just put Incorporeality and it delivers the same thing.

 

[ImmortalDread]

'As long as I exist, I will continue to exist'

Is that benefit of AE type 2?

So Am I AE type 2?

It is. Literally in the description, either immortality or regeneration.

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

Damn, I have AE type 2

 

[Starfeldway]

Dread I'll like you to re consider I disagreed at first tbh but after actually considering 3 things they have abstract existence on a type 1 level
it's not about them lacking a physical body but it's one thing simple
it seems when their spiritual and physical body dies they are still alive in some way just like Veldanava, in other words Veldanava right now is purely an abstraction no one can interact with it right now and it's his choice if he choose to return or not

“That possibility cannot be denied, but to mess with my brother’s beloved would be to put the cart before the horse. It’s possible for them to simply want to take his power, but if they sincerely wish for his resurrection, then I’d like to think they wouldn’t do anything that would offend him.”

this proves he knows what's going on in the world, if they harm milim and he doesn't know what's the point of coming?

«There is no reason to come back. In the first place, Veldanava should be capable of regenerating his body himself if he intends to return.»

he can immediately recreate his own body if he intend to return said by the all knowledgeable ciel
they are originally type 1 but they can be type 2 if they desire it or you can call their very spiritual form higher degree of type 2 if you want

well it's true right now thunderian arguments isn't

It is. Literally in the description, either immortality or regeneration.

ae 1 anyways

 

[Starfeldway]

Damn, I have AE type 2

add conceptual manipulation type 2 to rimuru bro in the op

 

[ImmortalDread]

You can't be benefiting of your own nature, this is literally contradiction. The benefit statement is truly an evidence that it is AE type 2.

 

[Starfeldway]

You can't be benefiting of your own nature, this is literally contradiction. The benefit statement is truly an evidence that it is AE type 2.

you can

 

[ImmortalDread]

You understand when I say it is a contradiction..?

 

[Peak]

Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:

It would be good to update this and finally call some adms before the topic falls by the wayside

 

[Righttt]

Enhanced Power Modification (Rewriting Ultimate Skills to the higher level)

Cloth Manipulation (Using Matter Creation)

I agree Enhanced Power Modification and Cloth Manipulation

Also, True Dragons have absolutely no relation to their bodies. They are literally just a Will, the Will of Nature itself. The body that we see is the result of the beliefs of the people around them. they have absolutely no attachment to that body, For their true being is abstract, Will itself.

I think that explains enough getting AE. So I agree