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Ant. Have you ever seen the episode that I'm talking about?
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Teen Titans (cartoon) speed upgrade
- Thread starter The_real_cal_howard
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I just saw the episode. I don’t know how to fully quantify that but it’s pretty absurd. The Titans searched the galaxy with like no clue where to go to in the beginning (they did get directions but like they didn’t really lead to anything), no idea which planets were inhabited or not and with only 1 oxygen tank (you could argue they refueled on other planets though cause Robin and Beast Boy could breathe there for some reason) and due to Starfire gradually transforming this thing trip took a week at max, probably a day tbh.
The only thing I couldn’t find is “darkest corners”. It should actually be deepest, darkest part of the galaxy, which doesn’t really tell us much.
If we discard all the travel between Star systems we get the following as the biggest lowball: 100 billion planets (amount of stars in the galaxy) * 38 million kilometers (closest distance between earth and Venus) / 1 week = 6.283.068.783.068.782 m/s = 20.958.061*c. This is the biggest possible lowball I can make (maybe someone can account from them probably not visiting the entire galaxy, but then again the amount of planets I used is pretty lowballed already) from it and this scales to reaction speed since they didn’t merely fly past these planets, they got out of their ship and talked to the locals. 2 things to note are that one planet was shown as very small (like as small as the Titans) and that maybe someone can account for some planets beings uninhabited although 1) we see no uninhabited planets in the episode (from up close that is) and 2) none of the Titans should know which planets are uninhabited or not. Robin also did some really nice acrobatics with the ship while moving at these speeds when they were swallowed by something btw.
The only thing I couldn’t find is “darkest corners”. It should actually be deepest, darkest part of the galaxy, which doesn’t really tell us much.
If we discard all the travel between Star systems we get the following as the biggest lowball: 100 billion planets (amount of stars in the galaxy) * 38 million kilometers (closest distance between earth and Venus) / 1 week = 6.283.068.783.068.782 m/s = 20.958.061*c. This is the biggest possible lowball I can make (maybe someone can account from them probably not visiting the entire galaxy, but then again the amount of planets I used is pretty lowballed already) from it and this scales to reaction speed since they didn’t merely fly past these planets, they got out of their ship and talked to the locals. 2 things to note are that one planet was shown as very small (like as small as the Titans) and that maybe someone can account for some planets beings uninhabited although 1) we see no uninhabited planets in the episode (from up close that is) and 2) none of the Titans should know which planets are uninhabited or not. Robin also did some really nice acrobatics with the ship while moving at these speeds when they were swallowed by something btw.
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I'll have to read the Teen Titans Go! 2003 comic series. It's an expansion of the story and is made so that it doesn’t contradict the series so it should be canon.
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@Galvino
This wasn’t the only feat + there’s also a feat of Starfire flying past planets to get a bomb out of range of the Titans in their T-Sub.
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When it comes to flight and turning; I'll address another point. If it operates similar to a car, and they can perform a U-Turn using very little amounts of space to turn, then it would scale to reactions. Like they when from traveling many lightyears, then their U-Turn/loops only had a few meters in circumference with them still maintaining a consistent velocity, that is reaction speed. But if the circumference was also numerous lightyears, that means they didn't physically rotate as fast as moved, thus not impressive combat speed wise.
An Athletic Human can pilot a Mach 10 jet just fine due to the open space and no worries about doing aileron roles and barrel roles. A racer being able to U-Run a Car as Subsonic speeds would be a different story based on how a car is programmed compared to a jet, and the lack of open space and needing to avoid flipping the car by accident; or flipping it back instantly. But very few people can actually pull that off. But it is noted that IRL, it is against the law to drive faster than 15 mph when making 90 degree turns or U-Turns; which is more realistic combat speed levels.
But still, I don't see Starfire fighting people while simultaneously flying from planet to planet; she's always still been somewhat close to their planets when she fights Blackfire and never punched or blasted faster than she flew. And she never really made reactions even when she pushes things at rapid speeds. Also, the "Sequel expansion comics" might at best be a one-sided continuity connection; similar to the comics that are "Sequels of the DCAU", it's only a one-sided connection. Or how the mainline Zelda games are canon to Hyrule Warriors but Hyrule Warriors isn't canon to the mainline games.
Also, Teen Titans Go doesn't exist
An Athletic Human can pilot a Mach 10 jet just fine due to the open space and no worries about doing aileron roles and barrel roles. A racer being able to U-Run a Car as Subsonic speeds would be a different story based on how a car is programmed compared to a jet, and the lack of open space and needing to avoid flipping the car by accident; or flipping it back instantly. But very few people can actually pull that off. But it is noted that IRL, it is against the law to drive faster than 15 mph when making 90 degree turns or U-Turns; which is more realistic combat speed levels.
But still, I don't see Starfire fighting people while simultaneously flying from planet to planet; she's always still been somewhat close to their planets when she fights Blackfire and never punched or blasted faster than she flew. And she never really made reactions even when she pushes things at rapid speeds. Also, the "Sequel expansion comics" might at best be a one-sided continuity connection; similar to the comics that are "Sequels of the DCAU", it's only a one-sided connection. Or how the mainline Zelda games are canon to Hyrule Warriors but Hyrule Warriors isn't canon to the mainline games.
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So some of yall are saying the titans scale to each other? Here's the problem, so if some of yall are saying since Starfire is MFTL+, then that means everyone else is as well, but there's still the anti-feat of Robin and Raven getting hit by light from Dr. Light. So that means the rest of the cast can't react to light? This is sounding nonsensical. It seems more likely that their reaction and travel speed doesn't scale to their combat speed.
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You guys were just saying Dr. Light's light beams weren’t lightspeed. How come you guys are suddenly saying something is lightspeed when it comes to anti feats. I guess every single MFTL+ character whoever got hit by a laser beam are now massively hypersonic. Besides there are other instances of characters dodging lasers.
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@Galvino this also happens in other cartoons like Ben 10. Rook states “it appears to be moving faster than light” when he sees a time beast move (as if it’s impressive). Yet he himself is rated at FTL speed. So one supposed anti-feat doesn’t mean much when Dr. Light can just scale. There’s also a ton of people that have lightning attacks that scale to FTL or higher, we don’t hold that against them either.
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Another problem I have with this is that characters are all around MFTL solely based on the distance they traveled via flying. Flight speed feats are so cherry picked it's not even funny. I'm gonna make a CRT or something about this because this is ridiculous.
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To be fair, I myself never agreed light from Dr. Light wasn't lightspeed. In the clip, Dr. Light says it's lightspeed. I don't know why a dude named Dr. Light who shoots lightspeed attacks, and clearly states his attack is lightspeed, is somehow contentious, weird.
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Superman for example actually has statements of his reflexes being comparable to his flight, and he's comparable to those who reacted to Massively FTL+ projectiles, Green Lantern also has more advance U-Turns for his flight. Same with other characters who actually do a bunch of fancy loops while maintaining Massively FTL+ flight speeds or move left or right to dodge projectiles while simultaneously flying forward at Massively FTL+ flight speed. Characters who are rated that high solely based on a simply flying forward at Massively FTL+ speed would likely need there combat speeds downgraded too.
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Stuff happens like that in TT and, cartoons in general, all the time. Beast Boy almost got hit by a train. Are his reactions so slow that he can’t even perceive a moving train? Nah bro, these beams are below average human level.
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Getting hit by another light attack shouldn’t automatically be an anti feat. That just means the user who blitzed scales to the speeds.
It’s almost like saying DBS cast should be downgraded because Dypso’s speeds, recognized as the “speed of light” in universe, needed to be telegraphed in order for others to see him.
It’s almost like saying DBS cast should be downgraded because Dypso’s speeds, recognized as the “speed of light” in universe, needed to be telegraphed in order for others to see him.
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His light attacks are clearly blitzing Robin and Raven. Does it matter if Dr. Light himself does or doesn't scale to the titans if his light attacks are faster than their combat speed?
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Yeah, it being light or not doesn't change the fact that it's outright blitzing the cast. Also, it seems a bit outlierish to make everyone much slower and weaker than Robin Massively FTL+ as well or even fodder characters with beam rifles. Also he specifically said "I hope you enjoy moving at the speed of light" which isn't talking about his beam speeds but he's just saying he doubts his targets can move at that speed.
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I kid, I kid, but you get the point.
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One can say that BB was still dizzy from just getting punched in the face and couldn't recover fast enough.
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If the fodder scales to the Titans in AP then why not speed? If they don’t scale in AP then I doubt they scale in speed. This is like saying Ben 10 aliens can’t be FTL (or MFTL) because Forever Knights exist and can use laser beams.
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I don't think the Teen Titans are that much faster than fodder characters if they're that much stronger either, and I still don't see why Starfire's flight speed scales to her combat speed or reactions for other reasons I laid out.
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If I say "I hope you enjoy moving at the speed of a bullet" and then I shoot my gun, I'm quite obviously referring to the bullet coming out my gun. He's clearly saying his light attack is the speed of light because the titans would need to move at that speed in order to dodge, which Robin and Raven didn't. Therefore, based on this anti-feat, Robin and Raven's combat speed, who scale to the other titans, aren't speed of light.
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Why? I don't understand. If I hold my gun up and shoot it, why do I myself scale to the bullet that shot out the gun?
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That's false equivalence my dude. Also you ignored when I posted Beast Boy dodging Dr. Light's lasers.
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The bat example also looks more like aim dodging. And even if not, you still need to calculate the speed Beast Boy moved in comparison to how fast the light traveled.
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He dodged them after they were fired.
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You probably misunderstood Kukui. He’s saying that the attacks of Dr. Light can just be MFTL+ speeds for scaling to the titans. Just how Cloud’s (from FF7) lightning scales to his own MFTL speed rather than someone saying “Sephiroth gets hit by Cloud’s lightning so he is only MHS+”.
This is probably also an answer to your other question.
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Nah, nah, nah, everyone knows Cloud and Spehiroth are transonic at best.
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Light comes from Dr. Light. Bullet comes from my gun. Same logic. All I'm saying is that just because Dr. Light shoots out light, doesn't mean he himself is light speed.
As for BB, he could just be aim dodging.
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How do you know that? We didn't see him shoot the light, it was off screen.
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The problem with this is that Dr. Light himself said they're the speed of light. He didn't say his light was faster than light. So we know their speed.
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Someone should calc at which speed you need to have FTL reactions to even remotely see what’s going on in space.
I’d have to watch the fight between Starfire and Blackfire but them not leaving the planet does not mean that they don’t fight at MFTL+ speed.
Now the main reason this is irrelevant is the following. My speed is an average speed to do feat mentioned and basically all parts of the trip scale to the Titans’s reactions. If we use the distance from Earth to Mars as a highball then we get 54.6 million kilometers / 6.283.068.783.068.782 m/s = 0.000000008690021 seconds. That’s the amount of time the Titans have to punch the gas, realize they are at the destination planet and punch the brakes, land, ask the locals for directions and get back in their ship... as a lowball. Yet you’re saying it doesn’t scale to reaction speed. This isn’t even accounting possible detours and decision time on which planet to go next.
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Feat 1
Feat 2
Feat 1
Note: When Starfire was flying through space she wasn’t flying at full speed. If fact she was slouched over and strolling, barely going the speeds she usually does.
Feat 1
Feat 2
Note: Starfire saw her planet coming while flying at MFTL speeds.
These are only a few I could quickly scrape up.
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You do realize he's making light puns right? Even then feats >> statements.
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One second. Ya'll are killing me.
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New 52 Superman basically got scaled to his flight speed for reacting to each other’s bullrushes which probably shouldn’t be too hard to find in TT with Starfire and Blackfire and for Supergirl being able to input a ludicrous amount of code in a computer in a blink of an eye. If Cyborg is anything like the comics then he’s probably a supercomputer in speed if not faster and should thus have FTL thought speed/reactions.
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This is what I meant ^
"Speed of Light", "Faster than Light", same difference. In-universe, a statement comes up about the characters recognizing someone moving at LS / FTL speeds, which is technically lower than whatever MFTL+ rating we give, but FTL speeds varies by a significant amount and someone whos MFTL getting hit with a LS/FTL attack doesnt 100% spell "outlier". It can also just as much mean the character who blitzed them is a faster MFTL+ person themselves.
Hence my Dypso example. In-universe, characters who are ridiculously high into MFTL+ recognize him moving at FTL speeds. But that doesnt mean Dypso is barely FTL, nor does it mean the other characters who had trouble perceiving him arent FTL all a sudden. Simple answer is Dypso is a faster MFTL+ character, and the same can be argued here with the titans.
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Then I don’t see why the fodder can’t scale. If you’re accept them to be 8-C (or higher) then they clearly aren’t regular humans.
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These feats could be either Sub-Relativistic or Relativistic though.
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Just for accuracy’s sake I will point out that Dyspo was not called lightspeed in the Japanese anime iirc, his point still completely holds however. I got an even better example though. Superman’s Heat Vision very likely passes the requirement for lightspeed and it being stated to be light speed shouldn’t be that hard to find. So unless we want to apply the same logic to Superman and downgrade all of DC heralds to Rel+, we should probably stick with the current system of attacks with a stated speed scaling to higher speeds if it is really necessary for consistency.
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