Tantal-izing Surge - Gunvolt vs Zeke Von Genbu (Both 6-C, Speed equal)

[Joycap]

...Well, this was a long time ******* coming...

Both 6-C keys
Speed equalised
EDIT: Zeke with Pandoria only
EDIT 2: AZG2 GV w/o Prevasion

Zeke: 0

GV: 6

Abstain: 0

 

[The_Smashor]

GV's technically undergoing AP revisions rn, but he'll still be Island level by the end of them.

 

[Smashtwig]

He’ll be 6 Gigs, not to worry, allow me to go first though, before someone misunderstands prevasion, including what one would say about "well hitting ghosts so it no workie"

 

[Smashtwig]

Before anything starts, I'm gonna outline a couple things about Gunvolt and Prevasion, since every time he's in a VS Match (such as against Diavolo) everyone misunderstands his abilities and downplay him, so here I go.

Prevasion is an automatic intangibility defense that turns GV into electrons. It costs part of a resource called EP, the same resource as his Flashfield each time its used to evade an attack, hence "Pre"vasion. By default, he's practically unhittable. As for EP, that resource is rechargable, either on its own, or manually by Gunvolt himself. If he chooses the latter, all of his EP is instantly restored to its absolute max. Combine this with Prevasion, and Gunvolt can stall out anyone if he really wanted to. In character however, Gunvolt does not rely on Prevasion and actively tries to dodge attacks, but would also want to make sure that his EP is topped. Prevasion is disabled when Gunvolt uses his Flashfield, his main attack.

When he is out of EP, he goes into Overheat state, for a second or two, he becomes vulnerable and cannot use his Flashfield or Prevasion, making him vulnerable to any normal attack. However, in character, Gunvolt tries to keep his EP at full at all times via instant recharge and Split Second if needed, the both being spammable



From here, we can discuss whether or not GV should have Prevasion, in battle, he effectively fights exactly the same with or without it, always trying to dodge attacks first anyways.

Now, you may be saying "hey, Zeke can hurt ghosts, so he should be able to hurt Gunvolt's soul- right?" Normally, you'd be correct, however, with the upcoming Azure Striker Gunvolt 3, this is disproven.\

In the game, there is a boss named "Black Badge", one of his moves damages the foe down to their very soul. According to various Japan only sources, without Prevasion, if you are hit four times, shown with the tokens above Kirin's (the character's) head, you will be instantly killed down to the soul. However, with Prevasion, you avoid damage completely, without being affected by the "token damage" which represents damage to your soul. Visual below:



Proof it doesn't work on Prevasion, with Gunvolt- 30:40 too for Kirin here:


Now, this is technically from a game that hasn't come out yet, so whether you want to count or discount this as applicable, go ahead. However, if you decide it isn't applicable, this entire thread/match result becomes completely invalidated as, as soon as Gunvolt 3 does come out, Prevasion still works on ghost / soul hitting attacks


My suggestion is: Get rid of Prevasion, use H. Emotion Gunvolt if you want to avoid the whole GV3 stuff going on in general. Because as I understand Xenoblade 2, Zeke isn't going to hit GV any time soon with Prevasion spam being active all the time.

 

[Joycap]

He’ll be 6 Gigs, not to worry, allow me to go first though, before someone misunderstands prevasion, including what one would say about "well hitting ghosts so it no workie"

snip

Personally, even if we were to give him Prevasion without manual recharge, GV kinda cockslaps Zeke pretty handily (for reasons I've stated before that don't really change with equalisaitons in question). GV's Elec immunity has been proven as early as the start of the first game, and coupled with even base Prevasion gives GV the ability to casually outhax Zeke and shut down the bulk of his offensive options (speaking of which, I should update the OP to say 'Pandoria only', as if that wasn't already the implication).

As for the whole 'Ghosts' thing, Zeke has boxed Addam's Phantasms down in Spirit Crucible Elpys before, but A) saying they're 'ghosts' is pushing it a bit (they're more Ether Structures as a result of SCE's ability to leech blades of their strength), so B) as you said (or at least surmised), Zeke doesn't have the right kind of non-physical interaction (if at all) to get through GV's hax anyway.

 

[Smashtwig]

Not to worry, I will not be arguing for Gunvolt with Prevasion, u just gonna update the OP. I will also assume Zeke does not have Optional Equipment, but have access to whatever is in his Blades section of the powers and abilities section (so he's not stuck with electric only Pandoria).

In terms of AP, GV has the initial advantage, however, Zeke actually can deal more damage than GV can deal, with chances to land critical hits, piercing Gunvolt's Septimal Shield with Arts that deal Pierce Damage (nulls defenses), buffing himself, reducing GV's Stats- and... instant death with "Slayer Arts", in which I have no clue what does are, so if possible, can someone please explain this?

Either way, it's safe to say Zeke always at least has a chance to win at all times in this match, much like Generator Rex in that match. However, if he decides to use his sword primarily, Gunvolt gets a range advantage, and with his experience against close quarters combatants (Carrera, Viper, Gibril, Desna sometimes), along with his mobility (wall jumps, air dashing, air hopping, running on cables), Gunvolt can pretty safely avoid scary blows, depending on how telegraphed they are (Slayer Arts specifically being scary). With the range advantage, GV can definitely kite Zeke, who is indeed a master swordsman no doubt, but swordsmanship doesn't really apply to dealing with a gun (a rapid fire machine gun with several different ways it can change trajectory, and spread shotting all over the place).

Onto Zeke's hax with his blades, I'll go over each notable thing in the P&A section, and then see what GV can do about it

• Energy Blasts, I don't really like to pull out this card, but Gunvolt has fought some seriously wild attack patterns that come from multiple directions, Merak's Lazy Laser, Milas's Hydro Zapper, Teseo's Circuit Board, Viper's Refulgence Danmaku, Jota's energy bits (like at least 5 blasts from all directions) all being prime examples. If these ether blasts are simply just "straight laser beam", I don't think they will be hitting, Zeke is better off just closing the distance to see if he can pull off his instant kill. This applies for all of his elemental projectiles too.
  • Just a note, before someone asks, yes, Gunvolt's Prevasion works on water too, only very specific water inserted with a very specific tech nulling electrode, from a very specific adept, with a very specific liquid Septima can really pull it off.
• Forcefield Creation, it's pretty useful, however GV's Naga is noted to pierce through defenses like this, and Copen's Flashfield Barrier (actually all of GV's darts go through Copen's forcefield), the one that he couldn't penetrate was Muse Amped Nova, who was... well, superior to Gunvolt entirely.
• Power Null and Sealing (I'm assuming "Blade Combos" are those AoE super attacks?), first off, we need to identify the power null in question, Septima is a psychic thing most of the time, so depending on what is being sealed here (say XB powers are like... chakra or smth), GV may not be affected. Even if it does work, it'll only be temporarily due to GV's resistances, and not even completely, as Gunvolt can still use Skills like Galvanic Patch/Renewal, which heal him back to full health
• Element Reflection, this is a big one, since he wants to avoid damage from Gunvolt. However, GV's Flashfield is a constantly homing stream of attacks which will always chase after Zeke, so long as he is tagged, even if he reflects the (3 to 8) streams of electricity, they'll come back for him, so he'd constantly have to reflect over and over, and I'm assuming that this reflection isn't like... passive.
• Attack Negation however, that's good, it has a 50% chance of negating all damage, but the thing is... the Flashfield is a constant stream of DPS electricity, the 50% chance roll will have to occur every "frame" of the damage that occurs, so lets say it just halves the damage he'd take.
• Probability Bad Luck Manipulation, that's definitely good, it will for sure let Zeke have a chance to one shot GV, however, he'd have to get past the machine gun of bullet death, GV's mobility and skill, and pull off a Slayer Art (and if that's telegraphed at all, yikes) all at once, otherwise, if it's a normal hit, GV can just simply heal it off.

I don't mean to be a wanking guy, but Zeke has all the odds against him here, he pulls off a Slayer Art, or victory doesn't like... happen easy. Tbh when I first looked at this, I thought that Zeke had it without Prevasion, but when I thought about it... damn is Range+Healing+Mobility OP... Okay I'm not fooling anyone GV is just OP.

GV Mid-diff, because One Shotting is always something to take seriously.

Pandoria only...? Bit of a lower diff if that matters

 

[Smashtwig]

Joy we are going H. Emo. GV2 without Prevasion right? Better specify that in the OP

 

[Joycap]

If GV2 is the one with the 6-C feat, then yeah

 

[Smashtwig]

Yeah, just make sure to update the OP, because with Prevasion (which without specification, is the default) I'm quite sure this is a stomp

 

[Xmark12]

Either Prevasion on or off, GV seems like he has a lot more going for him here.

Going GV FRA.

 

[Peppersalt43]

GV FRA for now.

 

[Popted2]

GV FRA

 

[Joycap]

Wow, we only need two more and we're putting this on page, huh?

 

[HyperNepsy]

GV FRA

 

[Smashtwig]

One more, apparently the OP is able to vote, but it's highly frowned upon so...

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Btw letting ya'll know so that no one gets into trouble that due to the restrictions given by the OP (which would be restricting standard equipment), you can't actually add this MU without violating a rule. You can still keep going with debating the MU with the terms given you just can't add it to the profile.

 

[Joycap]

Btw letting ya'll know so that no one gets into trouble that due to the restrictions given by the OP (which would be restricting standard equipment), you can't actually add this MU without violating a rule. You can still keep going with debating the MU with the terms given you just can't add it to the profile.

Oh hey where have you been?

Could we loophole this and say 'the result would not change with violating restrictions removed'? It's effectively what we discussed earlier, with GV (the current winner) getting the most severe current nerfs.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Oh hey where have you been?

Could we loophole this and say 'the result would not change with violating restrictions removed'? It's effectively what we discussed earlier, with GV (the current winner) getting the most severe current nerfs.

College and my own interests.

We can't as that would still be a violation regardless of the result, I do have arguments for Zeke as a ton of the bigger stuff was not mentioned at all nor how his abilities work (like I don't think most people here even know that Blades are people and not just weapons).

 

[Smashtwig]

Btw letting ya'll know so that no one gets into trouble that due to the restrictions given by the OP (which would be restricting standard equipment), you can't actually add this MU without violating a rule. You can still keep going with debating the MU with the terms given you just can't add it to the profile.

For GV? I’ve already asked about this to Ant, people like that, you can add Prevasionless matches due to the main argument of not being at add non standard equipment matches just being that the characters would fight differently or lose their identity without it (like Iron Man without Armors), in which GV doesn’t fight differently at all. It’s noted at the bottom of GV’s page as a Note. People pulled this card before, and unfortunately, it doesn’t work for Prevasion chars specifically (it’s meant to be a beginner friendly crutch, is ignored for most of the game by the characters themselves, who say to not rely on it and fight as though you don’t have it)

unless you’re talking about Zeke, which I did do my best to cover him using all of his Blades (which yes, I know are people), but without a proper notable abilities section, I wasn’t able to get a good grasp on everything in his P&A section)

…also can u explain how slayer arts work? If it’s just an instant kill with every little slash it’s a yikes

 

[JoshSSJGod]

For GV? I’ve already asked about this to Ant, people like that, you can add Prevasionless matches due to the main argument of not being at add non standard equipment matches just being that the characters would fight differently or lose their identity without it (like Iron Man without Armors), in which GV doesn’t fight differently at all. It’s noted at the bottom of GV’s page as a Note. People pulled this card before, and unfortunately, it doesn’t work for Prevasion chars specifically (it’s meant to be a beginner friendly crutch, is ignored for most of the game by the characters themselves, who say to not rely on it and fight as though you don’t have it)

unless you’re talking about Zeke, which I did do my best to address him using all of his Blades (which yes, I know are people), but without a proper notable abilities section, I wasn’t able to get a good grasp on everything in his P&A section)

Its mainly about Zeke since those Blades are apart of his standard equipment. Don't worry though I'll do my best to help you out in understanding what they do especially when ya went over a few of Zeke's abilities.

…also can u explain how slayer arts work? If it’s just an instant kill with every little slash it’s a yikes

Yes, it can do that. There is also the deconstruction on hit if that helps make things worse.

 

[Smashtwig]

Its mainly about Zeke since those Blades are apart of his standard equipment. Don't worry though I'll do my best to help you out in understanding what they do especially when ya went over a few of Zeke's abilities.

Bet. U can start off with what I missed.

Yes, it can do that. There is also the deconstruction on hit if that helps make things worse.

oh shit… I don’t think deconstruction helps depending on how we rule Stratos’s (GV CRT side) thing, but uh instant death huh. Do the enemies just resist instant death? Like, how does this not break the game (depending on the answer I can give an counter argumen)? If it really just does break the game I’d have to go high diff GVs or

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Bet. U can start off with what I missed.

Aight so to name a few,

Deconstruction: Happens on hit with a Blade weapon, is above baseline as it works on beings who can swim in the Cloud Sea which is stated by The Architect (aka God) to break down matter it comes into contact with.

Damage Transferal: Passive and can basically uno reverse a lot of what GV has.

Probability Manipulation: There is Kasandra's use of it which at worst would cause GV to mess up by accident and get hit for it (which would be lethal considering Zeke's other hax) but also Zeke's own use of it which allows him to force attacks to miss, force his own attacks to land and an increase of triggering status effects.

Non-Physical Interaction: Simple enough, allows for Zeke to hit GV while he is intangible.

Durability Negation: This one can be debated on since the wiki has no real ruling of how its treated but there are too many of Zeke's attacks (which can just be all of them thanks to blades such as KOS-MOS or T-ELOS) which ignore defence.

Immortality and Regeneration: This is something Zeke's blades have and thanks to it, they can abuse to take hits for Zeke since they'll just as Vandham puts it "heal up right away".

Forcefields: Also simple, allows for Zeke to just avoid taking damage. These forcefields can easily tank hits from characters even stronger than Zeke, if you wanted to you could scale them to Tier 2 for being able to tank hits from Artifice Aion but I'll assume that isn't in effect here.

Damage Absorption: Another way for Zeke to ignore damage.

Information Analysis: The power of MATHS! which allows for KOS-MOS to analyse GV and know what to do against him.

Teleportation: Teleports behind you while there are like 20 other people also shooting at you

oh shit… I don’t think deconstruction helps depending on how we rule Stratos’s (GV CRT side) thing, but uh instant death huh. Do the enemies just resist instant death? Like, how does this not break the game (depending on the answer I can give an counter argument)? If it really just does break the game I’d have to go high diff GVs or

I don't see this on GV's profile. Is it on an upcoming CRT? If so I'd recommend doing that first before bringing it up here for obvious reasons.
How its balanced in XB2 is that enemies do resist it though its only major enemies such as Malos or unique monsters (mini bosses) which obviously allows for them to have a resistance on their profile. GV himself though doesn't resist death hax so it'd be fair game.

 

[Smashtwig]

Deconstruction: Happens on hit with a Blade weapon, is above baseline as it works on beings who can swim in the Cloud Sea which is stated by The Architect (aka God) to break down matter it comes into contact with.

So... Slayer Arts instant kill slash thing, nothing really changes here

Damage Transferal: Passive and can basically uno reverse a lot of what GV has.

You're gonna need like... a lot more explanation than that cuz idk what that means, but lets say it just hits GV when GV like, hits him. GV just... heals all the way back to full health. In addition, GV has a very good stamina advantage (yes I looked at Rex's profile, doesn't seem... that great tbh), GV can just run away until Zeke's done

Probability Manipulation: There is Kasandra's use of it which at worst would cause GV to mess up by accident and get hit for it (which would be lethal considering Zeke's other hax) but also Zeke's own use of it which allows him to force attacks to miss, force his own attacks to land and an increase of triggering status effects.

I already explained how that would be a problem, but then to do a lot of that in a row, seems unlikely- especially how on the page it seems to be implied that Kasandra doesn't even know she's like... doing it... so forcefully making that happen multiple times in a row to get his lethal blow seems unlikely, especially when GV's kiting the entire time

Non-Physical Interaction: Simple enough, allows for Zeke to hit GV while he is intangible.

Sry but I already explained how that like... won't work, read upwards if u wanna like... yeah... also wrong type of NPI on top of that

Durability Negation: This one can be debated on since the wiki has no real ruling of how its treated but there are too many of Zeke's attacks (which can just be all of them thanks to blades such as KOS-MOS or T-ELOS) which ignore defence.

I just ruled it as "no defense buff workie" because I'm assuming that every enemy just gets one shot, I already listed it above as something up there

Immortality and Regeneration: This is something Zeke's blades have and thanks to it, they can abuse to take hits for Zeke since they'll just as Vandham puts it "heal up right away".

GV's Naga Bolt can simply pass through multiple enemies, so no go here, sorry. Again, read about all of the different ways GV can hit him with just his bolts (multi angles, piercing, machine gun rate fire, crawlers, homing to target a foe after hitting another)

Forcefields: Also simple, allows for Zeke to just avoid taking damage. These forcefields can easily tank hits from characters even stronger than Zeke, if you wanted to you could scale them to Tier 2 for being able to tank hits from Artifice Aion but I'll assume that isn't in effect here.

Already explained that like... Naga goes through, yeah I explained it up there already

Damage Absorption: Another way for Zeke to ignore damage.

Isn't that the 50% thing I listed eariler? Edit I'm wrong, up to 10% max hp damage, so... GV just.... hits him more until it doesn't work

Information Analysis: The power of MATHS! which allows for KOS-MOS to analyse GV and know what to do against him.

So he'd know to run in so he can get his slashy slash. Also keep in mind that when he does get close, he gets heavily zapped (not only is it easier to get hit by gun), it's guarenteed that he'll get hit by GV's Flashfield, getting zapped every time he gets close... and it'll like... hurt... yeah, Damage Transfer, but again GV can just tire him out

Teleportation: Teleports behind you while there are like 20 other people also shooting at you

GV deals with like... A LOT of Teleportation blindsiding attacks, he can easily get away... yes, blindside while being shot at by all angles. (Yes, I am making a skill blog because I should address all of the combat experience GV has)

I don't see this on GV's profile. Is it on an upcoming CRT? If so I'd recommend doing that first before bringing it up here for obvious reasons.
How its balanced in XB2 is that enemies do resist it though its only major enemies such as Malos or unique monsters (mini bosses) which obviously allows for them to have a resistance on their profile. GV himself though doesn't resist death hax so it'd be fair game.

Honestly I don't really keep track on small hax things like this, but for me it doesn't really matter.





Sorry pal... But I think I already kinda... covered most of the things u listed here

 

[Smashtwig]

Again, how does this Damage Transferal stuff, and the instant kill stuff like... not break the game? What can the enemies do to avoid it? And how does it work? Is it just an in game effect that says "yo if u do this, they die"? or is it "it manipulates the laws of X, X, and X to result a guarenteed death no matter what insert lore explaination here"

GV has dealt with Instant Death before, so... I don't feel like it'll happen here, the probablity manip can only work so many times in a row before GV just like, gets away again and Zaps Zeke, and even if its damage transfered, GV can just tire him out since he can heal, and just has way more stamina


Update, I can't find anything on Damage Transferal and Instant Death on the wiki for Xenoblade for details, but on VS battles, Damage Transferal seems to rely on hitting an attack on GV... why would he do that when he can instant kill is beyond me


Edit again (Spike is what causes damage transferal)

Spike is a battle mechanic in Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and Torna ~ The Golden Country. It is an effect whereby the recipient is damaged when making contact with the enemy. Spike damage is shown as a purple-colored number during combat. Enemies can also receive spike damage by party members who have certain Blade Skills or Core Chip special effects active.

Enemies will only activate their spike when they become Enraged, and it lasts for as long as the enemy maintains the aura. All spikes in the game are damage dealing Counter Spikes, that cause party members to receive damage for every attack that connects or is dodged by the enemy.

Enemies and characters may have one of two types of counter spikes:

• Physical Counter Spike: Every time the user dodges or evades an attack, they counter with damage equal to a percentage of their Strength stat.
• Ether Counter Spike: Every time the user gets hit by an attack, they counter with damage equal to a percentage of their Ether stat.

I don't think Zeke can just... tank damage and it automatically goes to the enemy instead from this description at all, it's more like, Zeke still takes damage, and GV also takes damage... which GV heals off, on top of his AP advantage (2 more gigs on Zeke), it'd be more beneficial to GV than it is to Zeke for this interaction to happen


Update: Instant death seems to be all on chance, so Zeke has to get REALLY lucky: He'd have to get past GV's mobility and skill (again he's dealt with blindsides) to even catch up to him, try a slayer art, and then have a chance to instant kill, all in a row. In fact, all of his good stuff is based on a chance, that he can manipulate with his Probability Manip, which his Blade doesn't even know exists, let alone exploit. Doing all of those manipulations all in a row seems unlikely

Meanwhile, GV's win conditions are much more concrete and consistent, run away, heal, zap, kite. Zeke's win condition will envolve a lot of teleportation spam, which GV is not only already used to dealing with, but the more Zeke does it, the easier of a time GV will have dodging it as he gets used to it

 

[JoshSSJGod]

So... Slayer Arts instant kill slash thing, nothing really changes here

Its something additional that makes a single hit lethal.

You're gonna need like... a lot more explanation than that cuz idk what that means, but lets say it just hits GV when GV like, hits him. GV just... heals all the way back to full health. In addition, GV has a very good stamina advantage (yes I looked at Rex's profile, doesn't seem... that great tbh), GV can just run away until Zeke's done

Basically any damage GV does to Zeke will also be inflicted onto GV. I wouldn't really be talking about GV running away when Zeke has a much higher range than him which ironically enables him to snipe him from afar if needs be. Though running wouldn't exactly work due to probability manipulation and it's ability force attacks to hit.

I already explained how that would be a problem, but then to do a lot of that in a row, seems unlikely- especially how on the page it seems to be implied that Kasandra doesn't even know she's like... doing it... so forcefully making that happen multiple times in a row to get his lethal blow seems unlikely, especially when GV's kiting the entire time

Zeke and Kasandra have their own Probability Manipulation, Zeke's allow for him to do what I mentioned above with the forcing attacks to miss, land, etc (and before ya ask, yes he can spam this. XB2 is a very broken game) while Kasandra's makes events happen to benefit her even if those events are naturally impossible so stuff like GV's weapons malfunctioning or his items going missing is what she'd do.

I just ruled it as "no defense buff workie" because I'm assuming that every enemy just gets one shot, I already listed it above as something up there

Makes me wish their is a standard for these sort of things since its a very big part of many games yet no one can decide what it means.

Sry but I already explained how that like... won't work, read upwards if u wanna like... yeah... also wrong type of NPI on top of that

I schnee, though something I want to ask. Are we verse equalising electricity ether and the electrons of prevasion here? If so then its actually very possible for Zeke's Blades to just passively absorb GV while he is in that state which ngl would be hilariously ironic.

GV's Naga Bolt can simply pass through multiple enemies, so no go here, sorry. Again, read about all of the different ways GV can hit him with just his bolts (multi angles, piercing, machine gun rate fire, crawlers, homing to target a foe after hitting another)

Already explained that like... Naga goes through, yeah I explained it up there already

Did not see those, thanks for pointing it out. Though do note that Zeke will be healing a ton in this fight both due to his own arts but also his healing blades, healing items, etc. So I wouldn't expect the damage over time to rack up over time.

Isn't that the 50% thing I listed eariler? Edit I'm wrong, up to 10% max hp damage, so... GV just.... hits him more until it doesn't work

Point is that its still free, repeatable way to just negate damage which'll certainly help out.

So he'd know to run in so he can get his slashy slash. Also keep in mind that when he does get close, he gets heavily zapped (not only is it easier to get hit by gun), it's guarenteed that he'll get hit by GV's Flashfield, getting zapped every time he gets close... and it'll like... hurt... yeah, Damage Transfer, but again GV can just tire him out

Well that's one way he could use it sure. He could also just swap to his long ranged weaponry like his ether canons and snipe from afar to name another option that he is also likely to do. Plus, something I want to ask. How does Flashfield work? Like what is meant by "destroy"? Depending on the context Zeke might just straight up resist it.

I don't think Zeke can just... tank damage and it automatically goes to the enemy instead from this description at all, it's more like, Zeke still takes damage, and GV also takes damage... which GV heals off, on top of his AP advantage (2 more gigs on Zeke), it'd be more beneficial to GV than it is to Zeke for this interaction to happen


Update: Instant death seems to be all on chance, so Zeke has to get REALLY lucky: He'd have to get past GV's mobility and skill (again he's dealt with blindsides) to even catch up to him, try a slayer art, and then have a chance to instant kill, all in a row. In fact, all of his good stuff is based on a chance, that he can manipulate with his Probability Manip, which his Blade doesn't even know exists, let alone exploit. Doing all of those manipulations all in a row seems unlikely

Meanwhile, GV's win conditions are much more concrete and consistent, run away, heal, zap, kite.

That's why I've been mentioning all these ways he could either tank it or just straight up avoid it. Spike helps him way more when he has these options to reduce damage he takes himself and maximise what he can to do GV.

Normally yeah it is up to chance, though probability manip boosts it and its why its a factor in the first place. Though it doesn't really matter since the deconstruction would kill GV even if the ID doesn't.

Again, Zeke has his own probability manipulation (that's why its in his Base tab and not exclusively in his Blade tab. Zeke himself can force attacks to land, miss, increase status chances, crit rate, etc while Kasandra's own manip is a whole lot stronger for the reasons I've mentioned to ya here.

 

[Smashtwig]

Its something additional that makes a single hit lethal.

yuh

Basically any damage GV does to Zeke will also be inflicted onto GV. I wouldn't really be talking about GV running away when Zeke has a much higher range than him which ironically enables him to snipe him from afar if needs be. Though running wouldn't exactly work due to probability manipulation and it's ability force attacks to hit.

Running away isn’t to snipe, GV’s Stamina advantage is crucial to this fight. Even if he like... Is hit, GV can again, heal it off, which is my point. Plus, linear ether attacks, like, blasts are just something GV’s WAY too familiar with, they ain’t gonna hit.

Zeke and Kasandra have their own Probability Manipulation, Zeke's allow for him to do what I mentioned above with the forcing attacks to miss, land, etc (and before ya ask, yes he can spam this. XB2 is a very broken game) while Kasandra's makes events happen to benefit her even if those events are naturally impossible so stuff like GV's weapons malfunctioning or his items going missing is what she'd do.

oh, okay so it IS an active they can invoke, well, at least Zeke

Makes me wish their is a standard for these sort of things since its a very big part of many games yet no one can decide what it means.

it really do be like that

I schnee, though something I want to ask. Are we verse equalising electricity ether and the electrons of prevasion here? If so then its actually very possible for Zeke's Blades to just passively absorb GV while he is in that state which ngl would be hilariously ironic.

it would be very funny, but GV doesn’t get absorbed by other Azure Strikers like Asimov, so I doubt it’ll happen.

Did not see those, thanks for pointing it out. Though do note that Zeke will be healing a ton in this fight both due to his own arts but also his healing blades, healing items, etc. So I wouldn't expect the damage over time to rack up over time.

gotcha, if it comes to a healing battle, it’s a stamina match, which uh, GV kind of has. Keep in mind Septima is also a primarily psychic ability, so so long as GV is mentally not tired, he can just keep healing. Considering that it’s easier to get tired physically than mentally, GV can last a VERY long time compared to Healing Items (and maybe blade? If I recall you can “abuse” a Blade, just like how Rex screwed over Pyra against Valdam or whoever)

Point is that its still free, repeatable way to just negate damage which'll certainly help out.

Again, it can just come down to a stamina battle

Well that's one way he could use it sure. He could also just swap to his long ranged weaponry like his ether canons and snipe from afar to name another option that he is also likely to do. Plus, something I want to ask. How does Flashfield work? Like what is meant by "destroy"? Depending on the context Zeke might just straight up resist it.

It does the zappy zap, the pain. GV has resistance negation too, so uh, yeah Zeke dealing damage up close is not the best thing ever. As soon as he gets close, he’d be zapped before he even got the chance to swing.

That's why I've been mentioning all these ways he could either tank it or just straight up avoid it. Spike helps him way more when he has these options to reduce damage he takes himself and maximise what he can to do GV.

tru, all of it together seems pretty potent, but GV can still slowly whittle him down with AP and take a toll on his stamina, or just actually damage

Normally yeah it is up to chance, though probability manip boosts it and its why its a factor in the first place. Though it doesn't really matter since the deconstruction would kill GV even if the ID doesn't.

Well, screw it, I don’t mind if it instant kills on hit no matter what because I was originally arguing with those parameters in the first place, Smashor should be watching so uh, we gotta decide on this Stratos/Zonda Deconstruction stuff.

Again, Zeke has his own probability manipulation (that's why its in his Base tab and not exclusively in his Blade tab. Zeke himself can force attacks to land, miss, increase status chances, crit rate, etc while Kasandra's own manip is a whole lot stronger for the reasons I've mentioned to ya here.

Hm, this can happen, it’s still a chance, which does increase his odds, but what I’m arguing is that GV’s fighting will be far more consistent (in fact, since GV’s like… firing what is basically a machine gun, one of them is bound to hit, if not a lot, there’s so only so many times say… a 99% dodge rate can dodge until they’ll be hit eventually). If GV goes the long range game, which he can definitely pull off, along with zappy flashfield, or even stronger Astrasphere (again he has AP advantage), Zeke’s long range is def not gonna work, and his teleportation melee attacks are going to be punished every time he gets into range before he even gets to swing in the first place. Plus, GV's dealt with attacks where he needs to get out of range entirely when it tries to blindside him so not only will Zeke get zapped when he tries the teleport melee attack, it's gonna give more time for GV to get away on top of already dealing with that kind of attack.

GV at least like, has a counter of some form for every one of Zeke’s win conditions, and should outlast due to Stamina, and the AP helps him break down Zeke’s defenses a bit, which would wear down stamina even more, while GV really just needs his mental stamina

 

[Smashtwig]

Also Joy might wanna update the OP to include all Blades

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Running away isn’t to snipe, GV’s Stamina advantage is crucial to this fight. Even if he like... Is hit, GV can again, heal it off, which is my point. Plus, linear ether attacks, like, blasts are just something GV’s WAY too familiar with, they ain’t gonna hit.

Ether blasts can curve, home in, etc which is stuff I'll assume GV has dealt with. My question here is will he be able to dodge for days when he has like 20-30 characters all doing separate stuff at the same time. Which funny nuff' means that Zeke could just sit back if he wants to and let his blades do the work though he wouldn't do that in character.

oh, okay so it IS an active they can invoke, well, at least Zeke

Both, he has passive increases from stuff like Core Chips along with active increases from arts, Blade effects, etc. He can also receive extra boosts from his blades which'll only increase it further with it from Blades alone allowing it to be at 50%.

gotcha, if it comes to a healing battle, it’s a stamina match, which uh, GV kind of has. Keep in mind Septima is also a primarily psychic ability, so so long as GV is mentally not tired, he can just keep healing. Considering that it’s easier to get tired physically than mentally, GV can last a VERY long time compared to Healing Items (and maybe blade? If I recall you can “abuse” a Blade, just like how Rex screwed over Pyra against Valdam or whoever)

So they both essentially have infinite healing as Zeke doesn't have to rely on his Blades for healing since those items are not consumed when used. To show one of the more popular examples from the game's meta the Avant Garde Medal allows for essentially infinite healing by itself. Plus yeah that can happen if you're not careful (which Zeke as one of the best drivers in Alrest would know) but do note that there are many healing blades so them getting screwed over by it wouldn't really matter due to their numbers.

It does the zappy zap, the pain. GV has resistance negation too, so uh, yeah Zeke dealing damage up close is not the best thing ever. As soon as he gets close, he’d be zapped before he even got the chance to swing.

Wait, I just took another read of GV's profile and well. That ain't Resistance Negation, its just a higher degree of Electricity Manipulation. In order to get RN you need mention of it bypassing/ignoring the resistances of someone. Zeke would have resistance negation if that was the case. Though regardless Zeke can resist the Resistance Negation via his Eye of Shining Justice.

tru, all of it together seems pretty potent, but GV can still slowly whittle him down with AP and take a toll on his stamina, or just actually damage

That would help....If there wasn't a squad of Blades to back up Zeke by healing him, fighting GV directly for Zeke to allow him to regain his composure by teleporting him out for a bit for example.

Hm, this can happen, it’s still a chance, which does increase his odds, but what I’m arguing is that GV’s fighting will be far more consistent (in fact, since GV’s like… firing what is basically a machine gun, one of them is bound to hit, if not a lot, there’s so only so many times say… a 99% dodge rate can dodge until they’ll be hit eventually). If GV goes the long range game, which he can definitely pull off, along with zappy flashfield, or even stronger Astrasphere (again he has AP advantage), Zeke’s long range is def not gonna work, and his teleportation melee attacks are going to be punished every time he gets into range before he even gets to swing in the first place.

GV at least like, has a counter of some form for every one of Zeke’s win conditions, and should outlast due to Stamina, and the AP helps him break down Zeke’s defenses a bit, which would wear down stamina even more, while GV really just needs his mental stamina

Zeke and his Blades do have more options for range thanks to the Blade elements (e.g trying to dodge wind, light, etc) along with his Ether Cannon allowing him to go brrrrr (it can essentially copy most guns due to how versatile ether is). All this comes down to is can GV go for days without getting tapped once by any of the Blades or Zeke with Zeke being able to increase his chances immensely by stacking the probability effects to get a practical 100% chance.

Though 1 last thing before I go hit the hay, I haven't really mentioned it due to not really being sure on how it would be considered. Many Xenoblade characters can buff their stats immensely, to give an example of how big these buffs are normally Zeke would be hitting for like idk 10k damage but with buffs make that around tens of millions of damage on a bad build. My question is do we use in-game multipliers for stuff like this? If we did Zeke could just stand there and just tank everything like if he was Senator Armstrong or amp his Speed also which would only makes things worse for GV.

Any who good night.

 

[Smashtwig]

Ether blasts can curve, home in, etc which is stuff I'll assume GV has dealt with. My question here is will he be able to dodge for days when he has like 20-30 characters all doing separate stuff at the same time. Which funny nuff' means that Zeke could just sit back if he wants to and let his blades do the work though he wouldn't do that in character.

He's fought hordes of enemies at once before, and has been attacked from all sides before, there's also so many people that can gang up on the same dude at once before there's no room, also, GV can just... attack them you know? AP Advantage, it's not like Zeke's abilities are copy pasted to every person there.

Both, he has passive increases from stuff like Core Chips along with active increases from arts, Blade effects, etc. He can also receive extra boosts from his blades which'll only increase it further with it from Blades alone allowing it to be at 50%.

Also, uh, okay, that's pretty epic if he gets into range in the first place to hit 'im with the sword (Edit: I misunderstood, read below)

So they both essentially have infinite healing as Zeke doesn't have to rely on his Blades for healing since those items are not consumed when used. To show one of the more popular examples from the game's meta the Avant Garde Medal allows for essentially infinite healing by itself. Plus yeah that can happen if you're not careful (which Zeke as one of the best drivers in Alrest would know) but do note that there are many healing blades so them getting screwed over by it wouldn't really matter due to their numbers.

Oh so they're both broken, it'd really just come down to stamina then

Wait, I just took another read of GV's profile and well. That ain't Resistance Negation, its just a higher degree of Electricity Manipulation. In order to get RN you need mention of it bypassing/ignoring the resistances of someone. Zeke would have resistance negation if that was the case. Though regardless Zeke can resist the Resistance Negation via his Eye of Shining Justice.

Not true, because Asimov's Azure Striker is STRONGER than Gunvolt, it wouldn't make sense for GV to hurt him at all. Yes, GV has resistances to electricity, and so does Asimov, since they have the same power, yet, GV can hurt Asimov with his electricity, despite Asimov being the one with stronger electricity

That would help....If there wasn't a squad of Blades to back up Zeke by healing him, fighting GV directly for Zeke to allow him to regain his composure by teleporting him out for a bit for example.

I see, yeah, stamina battle, this dude has an entire squad while GV's just on his own

Zeke and his Blades do have more options for range thanks to the Blade elements (e.g trying to dodge wind, light, etc) along with his Ether Cannon allowing him to go brrrrr (it can essentially copy most guns due to how versatile ether is). All this comes down to is can GV go for days without getting tapped once by any of the Blades or Zeke with Zeke being able to increase his chances immensely by stacking the probability effects to get a practical 100% chance.

I'm sure GV will be hit ranged attacks eventually, but like... if I understand it, it's his sword attacks that do the one shot right? Not the projectiles?

Also, Zeke can go on for days? Where does it say that in the Stamina section? Not even Rex has that on his. Even so, GV has been running from and fending off Sumeragi (basically the government that rules the world with an iron thumb with its facilities and troops everywhere) and QUILL (guerilla organization where GV is from) for six months straight

Because uh... if they do... well... **** stomp in Zeke's favor (instant kill on every one of his attacks, with 100% probability from what I understand, infinite healing, 20 people that can apparently do this at once) and I've been arguing the wrong stuff this entire time.

If the insta-kill only Zeke and his sword, GV can just heal off any other attack, and just take on the Blades one by one...

Though 1 last thing before I go hit the hay, I haven't really mentioned it due to not really being sure on how it would be considered. Many Xenoblade characters can buff their stats immensely, to give an example of how big these buffs are normally Zeke would be hitting for like idk 10k damage but with buffs make that around tens of millions of damage on a bad build. My question is do we use in-game multipliers for stuff like this? If we did Zeke could just stand there and just tank everything like if he was Senator Armstrong or amp his Speed also which would only makes things worse for GV.

Any who good night.

Uh, that would be really funny. Like, really really funny and it'd just be a stomp lol.





Also, aren't you only supposed to have one Blade out at a time? I don't see Rex pulling out an army of his gatcha blades out at one time-

and I overall feel like insta-kill Zeke doesn't really seem to make sense, why can't he just take on Malos with the strats you proposed above and just... like... one-shot him? I feel like game mechanics instant kills on normal enemies feels... wrong when GV is like... stronger than him, hence a "boss" character... unless Zeke really can just one shot every enemy including bosses in the game

 

[Joycap]

College and my own interests.

We can't as that would still be a violation regardless of the result, I do have arguments for Zeke as a ton of the bigger stuff was not mentioned at all nor how his abilities work (like I don't think most people here even know that Blades are people and not just weapons).

Also Joy might wanna update the OP to include all Blades

I want to frontload this by saying that Zeke doesn't always have access to every blade, and I interpret 'standard equipment' as the assumption of Pandoria being all that Zeke was using going into Aion. I think you'll recall my stance on Gems/Aux Cores and similar mechanics? Let's not act like Zeke has 15 consecutive blades, and 18 different Aux Core Slots, he really doesn't. And you might say 'well, Zeke might not always have Pandoria post-Master Driver Rex awakening', which I'd rebut with the above mention of Cutscenes.

Even if we were to tailor make Zeke's hypothetical moveset to counter GV... how much of that falls under Preparation? I have made no distinction of the sort, and with my MUs, I always envisioned them without it / if they were an actual Death Battle (those go without prep iirc?), where encounters go at short notice. Speaking of which...

snip (re: KOS-MOS mentions (no, not the Japanese one))

Zeke and Kasandra have their own Probability Manipulation, Zeke's allow for him to do what I mentioned above with the forcing attacks to miss, land, etc (and before ya ask, yes he can spam this. XB2 is a very broken game) while Kasandra's makes events happen to benefit her even if those events are naturally impossible so stuff like GV's weapons malfunctioning or his items going missing is what she'd do.

As a corollary to the above mentions of the untold 'prep', I'm guessing that healing would come from either KOS-MOS Lv.2 H-Effect-R, or the crit heal amulet (whose name as escaped me at this current moment)? Again, there's no guarantee that he has these when he goes to fight GV, and even if 'XC2 is busted mechanically' is an argument... what becomes the argument at that point, that some 4-Star bumfuck boxer called 'Farage' with the best nodes it could have had, could beat the shit out of GV no diff?

I'm starting to feel like I'm talking in circles (and this is only scratching the surface of what has been put down since I've been asleep), but I think you get where I'm going with this.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

I want to frontload this by saying that Zeke doesn't always have access to every blade, and I interpret 'standard equipment' as the assumption of Pandoria being all that Zeke was using going into Aion. I think you'll recall my stance on Gems/Aux Cores and similar mechanics? Let's not act like Zeke has 15 consecutive blades, and 18 different Aux Core Slots, he really doesn't. And you might say 'well, Zeke might not always have Pandoria post-Master Driver Rex awakening', which I'd rebut with the above mention of Cutscenes.

Even if we were to tailor make Zeke's hypothetical moveset to counter GV... how much of that falls under Preparation? I have made no distinction of the sort, and with my MUs, I always envisioned them without it / if they were an actual Death Battle (those go without prep iirc?), where encounters go at short notice. Speaking of which...

Like I told you last time, if you don't like those standards then go change them but good luck since you'd be up against practically most of the wiki then since you'd be against every RPG, Shooter, dungeon crawler, platformer, etc. You know why it's there and if you're not going to try change it then I would recommend just accepting it. If you want to impose unconventional rules onto the MU then I'd say to make them in Fun and Games since that's what its there for.

As a corollary to the above mentions of the untold 'prep', I'm guessing that healing would come from either KOS-MOS Lv.2 H-Effect-R, or the crit heal amulet (whose name as escaped me at this current moment)? Again, there's no guarantee that he has these when he goes to fight GV, and even if 'XC2 is busted mechanically' is an argument... what becomes the argument at that point, that some 4-Star bumfuck boxer called 'Farage' with the best nodes it could have had, could beat the shit out of GV no diff?

I'm starting to feel like I'm talking in circles (and this is only scratching the surface of what has been put down since I've been asleep), but I think you get where I'm going with this.

Same issue as before, you know the point of it is to remove variation and have characters at their strongest since it would be impossible to know what is being used otherwise and to not do this would be akin to not letting characters such as Cloud Strife have all his materia and items (which if you want to use DB logic here, they did let him have it all) or Mario his power ups. If you still have an issue with it then again, go make a wiki wide revision on that.

Any who this is derailing the thread.

Not true, because Asimov's Azure Striker is STRONGER than Gunvolt, it wouldn't make sense for GV to hurt him at all. Yes, GV has resistances to electricity, and so does Asimov, since they have the same power, yet, GV can hurt Asimov with his electricity, despite Asimov being the one with stronger electricity

Again, what you just described is just a higher potency of EM which isn't Resistance Negation but I'll be honest I'm not really bothered to make a CRT to change that so I'll let ya have it.

If the insta-kill only Zeke and his sword, GV can just heal off any other attack, and just take on the Blades one by one...

Well...What if I told you that the Instant Death is tied to an equip able item called a core chip that is used on a Blade Weapon to give it that effect. Keyword on Blade Weapon, as that is what all of Zeke's Blades and himself are using which means that they all have access to it.

Also, aren't you only supposed to have one Blade out at a time? I don't see Rex pulling out an army of his gatcha blades out at one time-

Gameplay wise you can have up to three but lore wise you can have as many as you want. Rex has used multiple Blades at once before (in Nia and Pyra) but I don't really blame ya there for the confusion as XB2 has a bad habit of just forgetting Blades exist for the story even when that Blade should be there. One of the biggest examples is Roc who Rex obtains every on, Roc should mean a lot to Rex and Rex has no reason to not to bring him along but for whatever reason Roc just vanishes without any explanation and is never seen again in the main story even when we see Rex use Roc's weapons which should he is around.
Plus, Blades can act and fight independent from their Driver as seen with Brighid and it has been done in game with the most notable example being the merc missions where you send a squad of Blades to go do stuff.

and I overall feel like insta-kill Zeke doesn't really seem to make sense, why can't he just take on Malos with the strats you proposed above and just... like... one-shot him? I feel like game mechanics instant kills on normal enemies feels... wrong when GV is like... stronger than him, hence a "boss" character... unless Zeke really can just one shot every enemy including bosses in the game

No, these strats wouldn't work on Malos due to Malos resisting basically everything Zeke has (High Godly regen go brrr) and then out haxes Zeke to one shot him back.

I feel ya, it does feel wrong but that is how hax works. It doesn't care how strong you are if it can hit 'em and they don't resist it then that's gg. Tier 2 Vs matches are full of stuff like this, characters with baseline ap stomp characters infinitely stronger due to having much better hax. Its the Hax Meta m'boi.

 

[Smashtwig]

Again, what you just described is just a higher potency of EM which isn't Resistance Negation but I'll be honest I'm not really bothered to make a CRT to change that so I'll let ya have it.

Don't quite get it, since Asimovs EM/Resist is stronger than GVs, so GV having higher EM to surpass it doesn't really make sense... because he like, does the have higher EM

Well...What if I told you that the Instant Death is tied to an equip able item called a core chip that is used on a Blade Weapon to give it that effect. Keyword on Blade Weapon, as that is what all of Zeke's Blades and himself are using which means that they all have access to it.

Haha... yeah Zeke is just gonna stomp. I said GV was skilled but I'm not gonna wank him and say that he can hold out for days straight (still can't find it in the stamina section). I thought he'd get hit a couple times, then heal it off if it wasn't instant kill, then keep going. This discussion is basically over, can't even add it lol.

Gameplay wise you can have up to three but lore wise you can have as many as you want. Rex has used multiple Blades at once before (in Nia and Pyra) but I don't really blame ya there for the confusion as XB2 has a bad habit of just forgetting Blades exist for the story even when that Blade should be there. One of the biggest examples is Roc who Rex obtains every on, Roc should mean a lot to Rex and Rex has no reason to not to bring him along but for whatever reason Roc just vanishes without any explanation and is never seen again in the main story even when we see Rex use Roc's weapons which should he is around.
Plus, Blades can act and fight independent from their Driver as seen with Brighid and it has been done in game with the most notable example being the merc missions where you send a squad of Blades to go do stuff.

Rip so it really is the entire hood

No, these strats wouldn't work on Malos due to Malos resisting basically everything Zeke has (High Godly regen go brrr) and then out haxes Zeke to one shot him back.

Same with every boss? Dey resist this stuff? Dang

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Haha... yeah Zeke is just gonna stomp. I said GV was skilled but I'm not gonna wank him and say that he can hold out for days straight (still can't find it in the stamina section). I thought he'd get hit a couple times, then heal it off if it wasn't instant kill, then keep going. This discussion is basically over, can't even add it lol.

Sad but ya did really well here, would ya like me to call over a mod to close this thread?

Rip so it really is the entire hood

lmao yeah fun fact for ya, when the crt was made having multiple characters in 1 page was not valid (though now it is) and the reason it got allowed for due to the loophole that the extra characters are technically equipment so they counted.

Same with every boss? Dey resist this stuff? Dang

Yup, that's an RPG for ya. If ya want to see resistances galore look at something like Castlevania or Final Fantasy, those verses really show it.

 

[Joycap]

Haha... yeah Zeke is just gonna stomp. I said GV was skilled but I'm not gonna wank him and say that he can hold out for days straight (still can't find it in the stamina section). I thought he'd get hit a couple times, then heal it off if it wasn't instant kill, then keep going. This discussion is basically over, can't even add it lol.

Can I just chime in and say Humanoid Executioner (the IK that would apply here) doesn't actually exist? Keep in mind that we've been using Gameplay optimisations as an argument.

 

[Joycap]

lol double post Speaking of which, wouldn't some of the equips and chokers be interpreted for GV as similar to how Aux Cores are interpreted for Zeke (and other drivers, for that matter)? How much of this would be cancelled out by each other? (I suppose I really am using Link vs Cloud logic...)

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Can I just chime in and say Humanoid Executioner (the IK that would apply here) doesn't actually exist? Keep in mind that we've been using Gameplay optimisations as an argument.

Well yes but actually no, it does actually exist through the Brandish skill though like I mentioned earlier it doesn't really matter due to the layered deconstruction hax doing the same thing.

lol double post Speaking of which, wouldn't some of the equips and chokers be interpreted for GV as similar to how Aux Cores are interpreted for Zeke (and other drivers, for that matter)? How much of this would be cancelled out by each other? (I suppose I really am using Link vs Cloud logic...)

Going off of GV's profile, not a whole lot like they can both bypass shields which kind of negates both characters of a form of defence but from what I have read from GV's profile there is nothing to prevent the bigger stuff from going off here.

 

[Joycap]

ALSO also:

Gameplay wise you can have up to three but lore wise you can have as many as you want. Rex has used multiple Blades at once before (in Nia and Pyra) but I don't really blame ya there for the confusion as XB2 has a bad habit of just forgetting Blades exist for the story even when that Blade should be there. One of the biggest examples is Roc who Rex obtains every on, Roc should mean a lot to Rex and Rex has no reason to not to bring him along but for whatever reason Roc just vanishes without any explanation and is never seen again in the main story even when we see Rex use Roc's weapons which should he is around.
Plus, Blades can act and fight independent from their Driver as seen with Brighid and it has been done in game with the most notable example being the merc missions where you send a squad of Blades to go do stuff.

The Merc Missions thing I get (even if that's cross-Driver, but ok), and you can have multiple blades to one named Driver, but you make it sound like 'a driver can deploy as many blades to battle when that driver is present in the same area as is needed' (I.E: nothing contradicts the 'three equipped to one person' rule). It's not even within the main cast's personality to use more than the three blades that they may have at a given moment.

No, these strats wouldn't work on Malos due to Malos resisting basically everything Zeke has (High Godly regen go brrr) and then out haxes Zeke to one shot him back.

I feel ya, it does feel wrong but that is how hax works. It doesn't care how strong you are if it can hit 'em and they don't resist it then that's gg. Tier 2 Vs matches are full of stuff like this, characters with baseline ap stomp characters infinitely stronger due to having much better hax. Its the Hax Meta m'boi.

So... a 6-C equalised Zeke wins because he fought a 2-C Malos... am I missing something here? (also he's immune to IK because game mechanics interpret him as a boss, not just because of the regen).

 

[Joycap]

Well yes but actually no, it does actually exist through the Brandish skill though like I mentioned earlier it doesn't really matter due to the layered deconstruction hax doing the same thing.

So... we're giving Zeke:

• Pandoria
• KOS-MOS
• Kassandra
• AND Percival

all at the same time?
Yeah, this is where I draw the line.

Going off of GV's profile, not a whole lot like they can both bypass shields which kind of negates both characters of a form of defence but from what I have read from GV's profile there is nothing to prevent the bigger stuff from going off here.

Imma leave it to @Smashtwig to answer that one.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

The Merc Missions thing I get (even if that's cross-Driver, but ok), and you can have multiple blades to one named Driver, but you make it sound like 'a driver can deploy as many blades to battle when that driver is present in the same area as is needed' (I.E: nothing contradicts the 'three equipped to one person' rule). It's not even within the main cast's personality to use more than the three blades that they may have at a given moment.

Except ya know, during Blade missions or during those crossover missions where you a number of Blades together (i.e, the justice one for example) or even merc missions where everyone is 100% fine with sending a squad of Blades out to do stuff which just shows that they're fine with having more than 3 blades on a single objective.

So... a 6-C equalised Zeke wins because he fought a 2-C Malos... am I missing something here? (also he's immune to IK because game mechanics interpret him as a boss, not just because of the regen).

What? When was it mentioned that Zeke wins because he fought a 2-C Malos? What was asked was if those tactics would work on Malos and the answer given was no given that he resists Zeke's offensive hax.

So... we're giving Zeke:

• Pandoria
• KOS-MOS
• Kassandra
• AND Percival

all at the same time?
Yeah, this is where I draw the line.

Same issue as before, go make a wiki wide revision or move this to Fun and Games. Otherwise its fair game.

 

[Joycap]

Except ya know, during Blade missions or during those crossover missions where you a number of Blades together (i.e, the justice one for example) or even merc missions where everyone is 100% fine with sending a squad of Blades out to do stuff which just shows that they're fine with having more than 3 blades on a single objective.

I think I know a few examples, but for the sake of argument, you got a link?

What? When was it mentioned that Zeke wins because he fought a 2-C Malos? What was asked was if those tactics would work on Malos and the answer given was no given that he resists Zeke's offensive hax.

Oh, I interpreted that as when you said 'tier 2 MUs are like that'. Is that not what you meant?