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Shhh
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Take me seriously now?! (DMC5 Nero VS DMC4 Dante)
- Thread starter BlastX
- Start date
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Again, that's mainly speed feats. Jester caught the Yamato because Vergil was slow. He held Vergil back because Vergil was weakened. But did he, at any point, deal actual, serious damage to either Dante or Vergil? No. He knocked them down and blitzed them with speed, but he still didn't overcome their durability.
You're also comparing a young, inexperienced, far less powerful Vergil to an older, wiser, and far more powerful Vergil.
Even if Nero is only half of their AP, half their durability, that's still more than DMC4 Dante, since as far as we know he's equal to slightly above DMC2 Dante.
You're also comparing a young, inexperienced, far less powerful Vergil to an older, wiser, and far more powerful Vergil.
Even if Nero is only half of their AP, half their durability, that's still more than DMC4 Dante, since as far as we know he's equal to slightly above DMC2 Dante.
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"Deal any serous damage to either Dante or Vergil"
Considering how he knocked Dante down for longer than Nero knocked him, yes i'd say so. The lack of details on DMC3 (PS2) is not an argument to be used and say "no blood".
"Jester caught the Yamato cus vergil was slow"
Not exactly. If it were then jester would have dodged it, not blocked it. When jester caught the blade vergil could just stand there without cutting him. If vergil could beat jester then he would have continued his slice despite the speed. You can make the speed argument only with Dante vs Jester where jester just dodged him and then stepped on him.
"He knocked them down and blitzed them with speed"
Knock down you mean like Nero knocked Dante down? That's the only scalable feat i know in that fight, as the fight with vergil ended just with him being "outlasted" mostly in terms of stamina, and in their fight the only real arguable damage was done through impaling Vergil with Yamato which has dura neg.
"You're also comparing a young, inexperienced, far less powerful Vergil to an older, wiser, and far more powerful Vergil."
I am not. I am comparing the cases. Im not saying Nero = Jester. Im saying the difference between the 2 brothers and mary and Jester is smaller than the difference between vergil and nero, for the reasons im stating. Vergil becoming stronger over the years is the reason im not saying DMC4 Dante absolutely fodderizes, but DMC verse's reliance on stamina hasn't changed. If the fighters are tired, their stats will drop exponentially to the point of having fodder like Jester who was done in by a Pre-Demon awakening dante, defeat both brothers when they were stronger than ever along with mary absolutely casually, almost mocking their current strength.
"Even if Nero is only half of their AP, half their durability"
He is not, the difference would be somewhat greater. And at that point even though he will have an AP advantage to DMC4 Dante, Dante can definitely close the gap with his arsenal and Yamato.
Considering how he knocked Dante down for longer than Nero knocked him, yes i'd say so. The lack of details on DMC3 (PS2) is not an argument to be used and say "no blood".
"Jester caught the Yamato cus vergil was slow"
Not exactly. If it were then jester would have dodged it, not blocked it. When jester caught the blade vergil could just stand there without cutting him. If vergil could beat jester then he would have continued his slice despite the speed. You can make the speed argument only with Dante vs Jester where jester just dodged him and then stepped on him.
"He knocked them down and blitzed them with speed"
Knock down you mean like Nero knocked Dante down? That's the only scalable feat i know in that fight, as the fight with vergil ended just with him being "outlasted" mostly in terms of stamina, and in their fight the only real arguable damage was done through impaling Vergil with Yamato which has dura neg.
"You're also comparing a young, inexperienced, far less powerful Vergil to an older, wiser, and far more powerful Vergil."
I am not. I am comparing the cases. Im not saying Nero = Jester. Im saying the difference between the 2 brothers and mary and Jester is smaller than the difference between vergil and nero, for the reasons im stating. Vergil becoming stronger over the years is the reason im not saying DMC4 Dante absolutely fodderizes, but DMC verse's reliance on stamina hasn't changed. If the fighters are tired, their stats will drop exponentially to the point of having fodder like Jester who was done in by a Pre-Demon awakening dante, defeat both brothers when they were stronger than ever along with mary absolutely casually, almost mocking their current strength.
"Even if Nero is only half of their AP, half their durability"
He is not, the difference would be somewhat greater. And at that point even though he will have an AP advantage to DMC4 Dante, Dante can definitely close the gap with his arsenal and Yamato.
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Im not here to say DMC4 Dante wins, i don't even care who wins here. I'm just here to set things straight regarding Nero's AP as it is being overplayed.
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1. Are there even any anti-feats regarding stamina besides one instance when Dante and Vergil were 19 year olds.
2. Is there anything to indicate their overall stamina wouldn't have increased from decades of training, fighting and exponential increases in power to a universal-scale?
2. Is there anything to indicate their overall stamina wouldn't have increased from decades of training, fighting and exponential increases in power to a universal-scale?
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I'll type up a full response when I get some free time, but this seriously feels like you're downplaying Nero by a wide margin.
Even then, all you've done is change this from a mid-diff to high-diff for me, if your points are considered true.
Even then, all you've done is change this from a mid-diff to high-diff for me, if your points are considered true.
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Yes there is the case of Dante vs Vergil in DMC5. After Dante is tired from fighting urizen (and not even that tired really considering he overpowered urizen pretty easily), vergil comes out, at full power and is shown to easily overpower dante then says "Defeating you like this, has no meaning, heal your wounds, then we'll settle the matter" then proceeds to show more of how much stronger he is than Dante. Couple of missions later, Dante reaches vergil, but this time he's in full power as well and the fight ends in a tie before nero stops them.CryoTheMayo said:
2. Their stamina would have increased, but that means little when fighting at full power. As you can clearly see Dante and Vergil are both out of breath and dante is so tired he passes out for the duration of vergil vs nero fight.
@Knight
That's exactly what im doing. Turning from low diff to high diff and putting things straight with nero and his power level because people who admited they are fodder to Vergil can stomp vergil, his equal brother, and another girl without breaking a sweat and even overpower them physically. Now for someone who barely won against an arguably more tired vergil we're saying "Nero is comparable" when as i said "People who performed MUCH better admited they are fodder".
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Alright, now that I have free time to type things up.
1. Your argument on Vergil and Dante's exhaustion is true. For the most part. Dante and Vergil both lose stamina, speed, and AP when drained or injured heavily. However, there is still no reason whatsoever to assume that their durability has undergone any changes. With the Jester scene especially, it seems far more like Jester merely waited for both of them to be so tired they were below him in speed and AP, and then merely pushed them over. With the massive amount of exhaustion they were suffering, it makes sense that someone who was at Jester's level could become the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak. And again, arguing that the game was technologically incapable of showing them with wounds or bleeding is objectively wrong. Dante bleeds, is shot, stabbed, and even has his hand cut into. Not a few seconds prior the twins were fighting and splattering each others blood over the floor of the room. So no, it isn't technological limitations, Jester merely took advantage of their exhausted state and pushed them down when they were already in danger of tipping over.
2. It is true that Dante and Vergil were exhausted after their fight in DMC5, regardless of how much their stamina had increased prior. However, I would like to point out that neither was as exhausted as they were in the Jester scene you have provided. In the cutscene directly after Vergil 2, both are so exhausted that they are incapable of even maintaining Devil Trigger. Had they been able too, it is very likely that Jester would not have been able to over-power them. And while it is true that Dante and Vergil's proficency with the form has likely increased since DMC3, it is foolish (heh) to ignore a crucial detail of the cutscene after Vergil v Dante in DMC5, and the actual fight between Vergil and Nero in the same. In the cutscene, Vergil and Dante both assume a far more powerful, but also far more taxing form, the Sin Devil Trigger. Both are new to the form, both have shown an inability to maintain the form for long times, and their are documents attesting that the form is immensely draining to uphold. ("...He can only stay in it for a short time, but..."). And both of them, immediatly after a long, drawn out battle immediatly enter this form. Not only that, but when Vergil is being fought by Nero, Vergil enters this intensely draining form not once, but twice during the course of the fight, at a minimum. Going of this, it is reasonable to assume that, as Vergil was able to transform into a more taxing version of his Devil Trigger a whopping three times in relatively short succession, that he was not anywhere near as tired as he was after DMC3 Vergil 2, as you imply.
1. Your argument on Vergil and Dante's exhaustion is true. For the most part. Dante and Vergil both lose stamina, speed, and AP when drained or injured heavily. However, there is still no reason whatsoever to assume that their durability has undergone any changes. With the Jester scene especially, it seems far more like Jester merely waited for both of them to be so tired they were below him in speed and AP, and then merely pushed them over. With the massive amount of exhaustion they were suffering, it makes sense that someone who was at Jester's level could become the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak. And again, arguing that the game was technologically incapable of showing them with wounds or bleeding is objectively wrong. Dante bleeds, is shot, stabbed, and even has his hand cut into. Not a few seconds prior the twins were fighting and splattering each others blood over the floor of the room. So no, it isn't technological limitations, Jester merely took advantage of their exhausted state and pushed them down when they were already in danger of tipping over.
2. It is true that Dante and Vergil were exhausted after their fight in DMC5, regardless of how much their stamina had increased prior. However, I would like to point out that neither was as exhausted as they were in the Jester scene you have provided. In the cutscene directly after Vergil 2, both are so exhausted that they are incapable of even maintaining Devil Trigger. Had they been able too, it is very likely that Jester would not have been able to over-power them. And while it is true that Dante and Vergil's proficency with the form has likely increased since DMC3, it is foolish (heh) to ignore a crucial detail of the cutscene after Vergil v Dante in DMC5, and the actual fight between Vergil and Nero in the same. In the cutscene, Vergil and Dante both assume a far more powerful, but also far more taxing form, the Sin Devil Trigger. Both are new to the form, both have shown an inability to maintain the form for long times, and their are documents attesting that the form is immensely draining to uphold. ("...He can only stay in it for a short time, but..."). And both of them, immediatly after a long, drawn out battle immediatly enter this form. Not only that, but when Vergil is being fought by Nero, Vergil enters this intensely draining form not once, but twice during the course of the fight, at a minimum. Going of this, it is reasonable to assume that, as Vergil was able to transform into a more taxing version of his Devil Trigger a whopping three times in relatively short succession, that he was not anywhere near as tired as he was after DMC3 Vergil 2, as you imply.
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And to add on to that long wall of text, for the "Jester holding back Yamato" feat, that seems to be a mere "AP v AP" or "AP v Lifting Strength", as well as a speed feat for catching the blade in the first place.
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Sorry for the actually small essay, but I needed to summarize my points in one block.
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After Dante is tired from fighting urizen (and not even that tired really considering he overpowered urizen pretty easily), vergil comes out, at full power and is shown to easily overpower dante
No. Dante fought for hours by that point, constantly travelling, and was capable of throwing Yamato's sheathe back at Vergil, hitting him in the gut which slided him backwards by multiple meters. So you are claiming Dante, after HOURS of travelling, fighting, etc managing to handle Vergil evenly is indication that he was even remotely as weakened as he was against Arkham.
Their stamina would have increased, but that means little when fighting at full power. As you can clearly see Dante and Vergil are both out of breath and dante is so tired he passes out for the duration of vergil vs nero fight.
...after Nero slapped Dante.
No. Dante fought for hours by that point, constantly travelling, and was capable of throwing Yamato's sheathe back at Vergil, hitting him in the gut which slided him backwards by multiple meters. So you are claiming Dante, after HOURS of travelling, fighting, etc managing to handle Vergil evenly is indication that he was even remotely as weakened as he was against Arkham.
Their stamina would have increased, but that means little when fighting at full power. As you can clearly see Dante and Vergil are both out of breath and dante is so tired he passes out for the duration of vergil vs nero fight.
...after Nero slapped Dante.
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" Dante and Vergil are both out of breath and dante is so tired he passes out for the duration of vergil vs nero fight."
Actually he doesn't, you can see Dante watching the fight in-game on the corner of the battle area.Just chilling
Actually he doesn't, you can see Dante watching the fight in-game on the corner of the battle area.Just chilling
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...after almost killing Vergil and diying himself.CryoTheMayo said:
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...after Nero slapped DanteTony di bugalu said:
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No, I mean that Dante and Vergil were tired and almost killed each other, then Nero came in with his power up and was there to show off and even then Vergil (who was almost killed by Dante) gave him a fight wich at full powah would have trashed him.
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And still, Nero managed to fight a Vergil that, despite being so utterly exhausted he can barely stand, was able to go into friggin' Sin Devil Trigger. Thrice. In quick succession.
Did I also mention Nero apparently has enough AP to Buster Vergil out of Sin Devil Trigger? Because he does, he brainbusters Vergil right out of it.
Did I also mention Nero apparently has enough AP to Buster Vergil out of Sin Devil Trigger? Because he does, he brainbusters Vergil right out of it.
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It's pretty clear Dante doesn't want to interfere in the fight. From a character standpoint, he knows that they're weakened just enough for Nero to take them with his newfound power (after all, Dante knows especially well what Nero's new powers are capable of), and he knows that Nero won't kill either of them.
I think Dante stood to the side so he could allow Nero to uh "work out" some complex family issues.
I think Dante stood to the side so he could allow Nero to uh "work out" some complex family issues.
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Dante didn't stand to the side. He was genuinely tired and out of breath. He lies down, when vergil starts fighting and wakes up when he's done. He's clearly too tired.
DT is rarely seen in cutscenes. I mean in DMC3 Vergil never transformed into DT in cutscenes, and from what i recall dante only did when he gained it. DMC5 Vergil again never transforms in cutscenes and Dante even beats Urizen without showing his sin DT.
DT is rarely seen in cutscenes. I mean in DMC3 Vergil never transformed into DT in cutscenes, and from what i recall dante only did when he gained it. DMC5 Vergil again never transforms in cutscenes and Dante even beats Urizen without showing his sin DT.
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"He lies down, when vergil starts fighting and wakes up when he's done"
No, literally in game you can go to one of the corners and see Dante wide awake watching the fight.Replay the mission and do a 180 with the camara (or try cause the camera tracks Vergil) and you'll see Dante cleary awake or better yet go into camera mode and see it.
No, literally in game you can go to one of the corners and see Dante wide awake watching the fight.Replay the mission and do a 180 with the camara (or try cause the camera tracks Vergil) and you'll see Dante cleary awake or better yet go into camera mode and see it.
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Dante was walking around perfectly fine and inside of SDT before Nero showed up. Vergil, as others stated, could go SDT multiple times in one fight and be stabbed by his own Yamato multiple times (which, mind you, Nero shrugged off with zero difficulty). Nero's slap IS what caused Dante to fall on the ground and stay there.Tony di bugalu said:
You also have to acknowledge that Nero would blitz the ever living hell out of DMC4 Dante. SDT Dante and SDT Vergil were literal inches away from each other when Nero (from halfway up the staircase) came between them, faster than they could react (when Dante has instinctive reactions) and stop them completely with one hand each.
Like...how much slower are Dante and Vergil from being tired? The insane speed Nero displayed in that single instance against SDT Dante and SDT Vergil should indicate that any version of Dante that isn't his Post-SDT self would get blitzed to hell and back by Nero.
ABoogieYesSir
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I agree with DMC5 Nero being stronger than Dante DMC4.
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I also agree with DMC5 Nero being stronger than DMC4 Dante, it's a no brainer he is. But what i was not ok with is you guys claiming "He's comparable to endgame vergil and dante". And ABSOLUTELY not. Not even close for the reasons i mentioned. Claiming nero is that strong with jester and first apparence vergil being cases is overplaying his abilities by a serious margin.
Otherwise i do agree with Nero being above DMC4 Dante. Dante still has Yamato and a serious skill advantage. Feel free to argue now. My work here is done.
Otherwise i do agree with Nero being above DMC4 Dante. Dante still has Yamato and a serious skill advantage. Feel free to argue now. My work here is done.
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DMC5 Nero wins GG. Wins against an SDT Vergil and intercepts SDT Vergil and Dante with speed, slaps regular Dante so hard he nearly dies and sits the round out.
We've already proven he's comparable, and that Dante and Vergil clearly weren't as tired after their fight in DMC5 as you've implied. And claiming that "DT never appears in cutscenes" disproves anything I've stated is wrong. Because it still doesn't disprove that, had they gone DT or been able to, they would've floored Jester and "chopped him into confetti". You're essentially claiming that, since they never use DT or SDT in cutscenes, that they never use it. It's illogical to claim Dante didn't use SDT against Urizen's final form, or that he didn't use it against Vergil until the end of the fight. It's even more illogical to claim that scripted DT and SDT transformations in fights don't occur because they don't happen in cutscenes.
And to further my point even more, Vergil uses SDT at least twice in his fight against Dante. which means he uses it at least a total of five times in a short interval.
We've already proven he's comparable, and that Dante and Vergil clearly weren't as tired after their fight in DMC5 as you've implied. And claiming that "DT never appears in cutscenes" disproves anything I've stated is wrong. Because it still doesn't disprove that, had they gone DT or been able to, they would've floored Jester and "chopped him into confetti". You're essentially claiming that, since they never use DT or SDT in cutscenes, that they never use it. It's illogical to claim Dante didn't use SDT against Urizen's final form, or that he didn't use it against Vergil until the end of the fight. It's even more illogical to claim that scripted DT and SDT transformations in fights don't occur because they don't happen in cutscenes.
And to further my point even more, Vergil uses SDT at least twice in his fight against Dante. which means he uses it at least a total of five times in a short interval.
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I mean, it won't change Nero's tier or anything about him, and we've already proven he's not too far behind DMC5 Dante and Vergil, so I doubt it needs an entire CRT.
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It was never stated that SDT is a Stamina based skill, this means nothing, they were tired just like Dante was after fighting Urizen, when Vergil easily "defeated" him. They are comparable and scales to each other
I don't understand why you people are wasting time here
I don't understand why you people are wasting time here
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DT has always been stamina based, it's reasonable to assume that SDT is as well. And given Dante needs to take a short break after exiting the form while in gameplay, it's slightly supported, although that's something I'd be hesitant to use. And Nico's report on Dante's SDT outright states it.
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It states that it have a Time Limit, that's all, it doesn't mean that it is related to their Stamina
Normal DT is Stamina based by what ? The DT Gauge ? That Gameplay Mechanic ? Hmm
Normal DT is Stamina based by what ? The DT Gauge ? That Gameplay Mechanic ? Hmm
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Here's a good point. Why would DT or SDT have any time limit if not due to stamina? And I'd agree that the DT guage is a gameplay mechanic, but lore files have consistently stated that DT can only last a short time.
And given that DT is a transformation, its also reasonable to treat how we'd treat other transformations. Stamina based.
And given that DT is a transformation, its also reasonable to treat how we'd treat other transformations. Stamina based.
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Stamina is not always the factor for a Time Limit
It's kinda normal that some guides uses game mechs, since they are using elements from the game to explain or help the player, the thing is, in DMC's History, it was never stated that Devil Trigger is a Stamina based "Transformation", in fact, it is described by their "demonic look" as Dante chooses to look like a demon or a human, but nothing about Time Limit. We also have moments like Dante vs Mundus 1, when DT is necessary all the time, then the Gauge disappears and Dante can use his DT normally without Time Limit
The Time Limit for Sin Devil Trigger was stated in DMC5, so it's canon, but it lasts much more than the gameplay shows us since Dante could transform, fly to the Qliphoth, find Nero and fight Urizen before SDT ran out. Also Vergil was using it even when he was completely tired to the point of standing on the ground like a idiot in his fight against Nero, so even if it uses their Stamina, it is a pathetic amount of it, since they use even when they are in a heavy weakened state
It's kinda normal that some guides uses game mechs, since they are using elements from the game to explain or help the player, the thing is, in DMC's History, it was never stated that Devil Trigger is a Stamina based "Transformation", in fact, it is described by their "demonic look" as Dante chooses to look like a demon or a human, but nothing about Time Limit. We also have moments like Dante vs Mundus 1, when DT is necessary all the time, then the Gauge disappears and Dante can use his DT normally without Time Limit
The Time Limit for Sin Devil Trigger was stated in DMC5, so it's canon, but it lasts much more than the gameplay shows us since Dante could transform, fly to the Qliphoth, find Nero and fight Urizen before SDT ran out. Also Vergil was using it even when he was completely tired to the point of standing on the ground like a idiot in his fight against Nero, so even if it uses their Stamina, it is a pathetic amount of it, since they use even when they are in a heavy weakened state
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And yet, in the second and third phases of Dante v Mundus, Dante is tired and beaten down and cannot maintain DT for more than a short while, which lends itself to it being stamina based. Even more so because he drops the form after being hit by a barrage of meteors from Mundus, which likely wore him down. Additionally, Dante going DT for the first time drains what little stamina he had left and knocks him out cold. So yes, it's a stamina based ability. Has he likely gotten better with it in lore? Yes, most certainly. But still, if he's low on stamina, he cannot maintain the form, or it knocks him out.
And we don't know just how fast SDT Dante is, he could have easily flown that distance in a few seconds, or it could have taken him an hour or more. Since we don't know the exact details of the time limit on SDT, or how fast Dante actually is due to lacking feats, we can't just say "oh he can maintain it for hours so". And since when has it been impossible to be knocked down while in DT? Saying "Vergil was knocked down while in SDT so it clearly doesn't waste stamina" is objectively wrong because it is perfectly possible for even a full power and unexhausted SDT Vergil to be knocked down by Dante.
And we don't know just how fast SDT Dante is, he could have easily flown that distance in a few seconds, or it could have taken him an hour or more. Since we don't know the exact details of the time limit on SDT, or how fast Dante actually is due to lacking feats, we can't just say "oh he can maintain it for hours so". And since when has it been impossible to be knocked down while in DT? Saying "Vergil was knocked down while in SDT so it clearly doesn't waste stamina" is objectively wrong because it is perfectly possible for even a full power and unexhausted SDT Vergil to be knocked down by Dante.
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He's fighting Mundus, a Demon God with comparable power to his own, but he is tired only because of Devil Trigger ? That's not how It works, but I got your point...I think
Droping the Form doesn't mean nothing, it happened in 5 when Dante wasn't tired
You can say that when he is tired, he can't use DT', but using DT doesn't tire him
That's exactly why I said that he lasts with SDT longer than the gameplay, he was there, stopped, waiting Griffon take The Super Deadweight away from that battle, that alone is already longer than his Gameplay Time Limit. And well, I never said that "Vergil was knocked while using SDT and etc", I said that even when he was tired and weakened, he still could fight using the Sin Devil Trigger, which implies that SDT isn't something that dry them so much, and this is one of the main arguments that some people use to say that Nero is stronger than Dante and Vergil, a wrong ideia
In DMC we already saw many times that Stamina and Power are related, it happened in Dante vs Mundus, it happened in Dante, Vergil and Lady vs Arkham and it happened in Dante vs Urizen
- Dante vs Mundus = a 3-A couldn't defeat a tired DMC1 Dante
- Dante, Vergil and Lady Vs Arkham = The most important, when Arkham literally states that he used both Vergil and Dante, so they would fight and tire each other, which allows Arkham to effortlessly stomp the twins, with the game showing that when in 100%, they can one shot beings like Beowulf that are comparable to Arkham
"But they were only slow"
No, Arkham attacks could hurt both of them, and he even caught Yamato, which would cut him if Vergil were powerful enough
Dante vs Urizen = After fighting Cerberus and Urizen, Dante was effortlessly tossed away by Vergil like nothing, the same can be applied after this since Dante fights those summons and then Vergil (both comparable)
Vergil even states this: Heal your wounds, Dante, GET STROOOOOOOOONG, after that..."
This proves that they were tired, and by the lore logic, weakened, and this proves that SDT isn't something that dry them so much, and so is DT
I discussed this so many times, was called "ridiculous" and "biased" because of this, so I'm not going to continue here
Droping the Form doesn't mean nothing, it happened in 5 when Dante wasn't tired
You can say that when he is tired, he can't use DT', but using DT doesn't tire him
That's exactly why I said that he lasts with SDT longer than the gameplay, he was there, stopped, waiting Griffon take The Super Deadweight away from that battle, that alone is already longer than his Gameplay Time Limit. And well, I never said that "Vergil was knocked while using SDT and etc", I said that even when he was tired and weakened, he still could fight using the Sin Devil Trigger, which implies that SDT isn't something that dry them so much, and this is one of the main arguments that some people use to say that Nero is stronger than Dante and Vergil, a wrong ideia
In DMC we already saw many times that Stamina and Power are related, it happened in Dante vs Mundus, it happened in Dante, Vergil and Lady vs Arkham and it happened in Dante vs Urizen
- Dante vs Mundus = a 3-A couldn't defeat a tired DMC1 Dante
- Dante, Vergil and Lady Vs Arkham = The most important, when Arkham literally states that he used both Vergil and Dante, so they would fight and tire each other, which allows Arkham to effortlessly stomp the twins, with the game showing that when in 100%, they can one shot beings like Beowulf that are comparable to Arkham
"But they were only slow"
No, Arkham attacks could hurt both of them, and he even caught Yamato, which would cut him if Vergil were powerful enough
Dante vs Urizen = After fighting Cerberus and Urizen, Dante was effortlessly tossed away by Vergil like nothing, the same can be applied after this since Dante fights those summons and then Vergil (both comparable)
Vergil even states this: Heal your wounds, Dante, GET STROOOOOOOOONG, after that..."
This proves that they were tired, and by the lore logic, weakened, and this proves that SDT isn't something that dry them so much, and so is DT
I discussed this so many times, was called "ridiculous" and "biased" because of this, so I'm not going to continue here
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Yeah I'm gonna say this is a far bigger thing than should be discussed in a VS thread. Maybe we should make an actual discussion thread.
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For what exactly ?
The Nero vs Twins thing is kinda already done, you can't say that Vergil wasn't tired but that doesn't mean that Nero is a weakling, saying that those 3 are "comparable" and scale to each other is the perfect Mid term, and everyone agree on this
Now, for DT, yeah, if you want to discuss about Stamina - DT - SDT, a Discussion Thread should be better
The Nero vs Twins thing is kinda already done, you can't say that Vergil wasn't tired but that doesn't mean that Nero is a weakling, saying that those 3 are "comparable" and scale to each other is the perfect Mid term, and everyone agree on this
Now, for DT, yeah, if you want to discuss about Stamina - DT - SDT, a Discussion Thread should be better
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I'm still saying Nero pretty much dominates this fight though, just because of how much higher even a tired DMC5 Vergil and Dante are compared to DMC4 Dante. And considering the massive leaps and bounds they made during DMC5, even if Nero is half their full power, I'd still say he stomps DMC4 Dante.
I don't think Nero is as strong as DMC5 Dante. That's wrong, objectively. He's comparable enough to put him above DMC4 Dante by a wide margin, but he's still not at that level that the twins have achieved. I can see that some might see what I've been saying as that, and I believe some might mistake my points for that.
I don't think Nero is as strong as DMC5 Dante. That's wrong, objectively. He's comparable enough to put him above DMC4 Dante by a wide margin, but he's still not at that level that the twins have achieved. I can see that some might see what I've been saying as that, and I believe some might mistake my points for that.
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Oh, wait
DMC4 Dante gets stomped by End of Game DMC5 Nero, yes
Dante and Vergil by DMC5 are comparable/stronger than DMC5 Nero
This one is a stomp, but we have another one, which is DMC5 Dante vs DMC5 Nero, you should take a look
DMC4 Dante gets stomped by End of Game DMC5 Nero, yes
Dante and Vergil by DMC5 are comparable/stronger than DMC5 Nero
This one is a stomp, but we have another one, which is DMC5 Dante vs DMC5 Nero, you should take a look
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That's heavily in Dante's favor imo.
But this one is heavily in Nero's favor. Hell, one of the things Dante was given is something Nero has been stabbed by and shrugged off.
But this one is heavily in Nero's favor. Hell, one of the things Dante was given is something Nero has been stabbed by and shrugged off.
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