• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Sword Art Online (Post-Aincrad) Kirito Power Downgrade

Status
Not open for further replies.
Cyberblader90 said:
without small country, is there anything else he can scale to?
Click to expand...
He did still freeze the entire onslaught of the red army, so we can certainly use that. But generally, every other feet is more or less a personal 1v1 duel kinda feat where there isn't much "large scale" stuff happening.
 
... what profile are you looking at?

Pretty sure everyone in Alictzation is 9-B without enhance armaments and whatnot
 
Kaantantr said:
He did still freeze the entire onslaught of the red army, so we can certainly use that. But generally, every other feet is more or less a personal 1v1 duel kinda feat where there isn't much "large scale" stuff happening.
Click to expand...

If you're saying that because the frame of reference is a stopgap, then I won't stop you. But I don't think it's going to be anything other than a bandied fix knowing that the red army were effectively 10-B fodder, and were only any threat in those numbers. Besides, if that meant anything in relation to scope of Underworld, how come their weren't players spilling into the human realm?
 
DMUA said:
... what profile are you looking at?

Pretty sure everyone in Alictzation is 9-B without enhance armaments and whatnot
Click to expand...
I was looking at Kirito where the freeze calc is listed. Maybe I read it wrong.
At least Wall level physically (Likely leveled up significantly after helping slay Quinella. Clashed with PoH and Subtilizer), higher with Sacred Arts, Building level+ with Enhance Armament (Same as before), Multi-City Block level with the Blue Rose Sword's Release Recollection (Completely froze roughly 20,000 people with the Blue Rose Sword).
Click to expand...
At least Wall level physically, higher with Sacred Arts, Multi-City Block level when blocking.
Click to expand...
 
In fact, here's another way of looking at UW scope: were the Human realm and underworld allegories for anything in particular?

Because I gave Island level a quick poke around, and then I realised that areas being allegories for their equivalencies in real life (our real life, not the in-universe IRL) tend to come with their exact size and scope.

Do we have any frames of reference in that regard?
 
DMUA said:
Yen Press for some reason
Click to expand...
Cuz it probably has horrible translaton mistake.I have already seen multiple mis translaton regarding tensura done by yen press.It would be rather awesome if someone can collect the raws instead if they have doubts rather than believing yenpress
 
Helestias said:
Cuz it probably has horrible translaton.
Click to expand...
I keep hearing this told to me but the one time someone actually tried to back up such a claim, they found nothing substantial (And in fact, the proof sorta went against their point)
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
So if I got this straight, the basis to tier 4 SAO to begin with was coming from mistranslated out of context evidence?
Click to expand...
Yeah, and way back when the upgrade was made, the argument's lack of standing was only matched by the counterargument's lack of reasoning.

... Man, that was back at the start of 2019... how time goes by.
 
DMUA said:
Yeah, and way back when the upgrade was made, the argument's lack of standing was only matched by the counterargument's lack of reasoning.

... Man, that was back at the start of 2019... how time goes by.
Click to expand...
you said you had some calcs in the works.

What results do they get
 
7-B and Low 7-C

I already have the calcs made I just need to copypaste them into a blog, and I have the 7-B one pulled up right now as you ask this
 
DMUA said:
I keep hearing this told to me but the one time someone actually tried to back up such a claim, they found nothing substantial (And in fact, the proof sorta went against their point)
Click to expand...
Rimurus Black lightning is translated as faster then light which was infact faster than sound.In vol 10 tensura they literally Translated unique skill greed (was written greed in japanese ) as Avarice which doesn't make sense.
But lets not talk about yen presses fault inside a crt
 
Reminder Yen Press is not a translator but a publishing company. Sword Art Online series products are translated by Stephen Paul, who has years upon years of experience as a professional translator, let alone his prior work as a fan translator himself. Stephen Paul is one of the best translators you can find around.

There are minor differences between Manga and LN translations like the use of honorifics, but that is a stylistic/editorial choice and is not a contextual difference.
 
Gsi shared the translation of the excerpt from Unital Ring IV regarding the Abyssal Horror incident. Japanese raw:

「お二方ともご安心ください、かつての例ですとアビッサル・ホラーは一月後には完全復活していたのですが、今回は一月半が経っても姿を現していません。戦闘そのものが極秘扱いなので非公式な情報ですが、整合機士団では厳密な観測を重ねたうえで、かの宇宙獣は消滅したものと結論づけています」
Click to expand...

Translation from Gsimenas, the current main SAO Fan Translator:

Please be at ease, ladies; usually, the Abyssal Horror would be back at its full potential after just a month, but this time it has not shown up even after one and a half months. The battle itself is treated as top secret, so this information has not been made public, but based on the numerous observations that the Integrity Pilot Order has conducted, we have concluded that the fabled space beast is no more.
Click to expand...
The incident was kept secret. You cannot keep a universe shaking event a "secret".
 
Cyberblader90 said:
is it 40 seconds in the full episode?
Click to expand...
I watched the episode myself, yeah. Sorry I can't really link anything but if you watch it on some piracy site or whatever you should be able to confirm

also, I put the second calc I was referring to onto the same blog
 
DMUA said:
First calc up, onto the second
Click to expand...

That reminds me: the 'red knights' being frozen en masse - I've been thinking about it wrong. Could the combination of Enhance Armament + Blue Rose life drain be interpreted as 'life wiper' in that context?

See, on my DBa alt on twitter, I poseted the idea that Kirito's later WoU forms (Star King, specifically) could be a life wiper based on how the dragons were reverted to a larval stage, and then eggs, which would put him at around Moon Level (5-C). However, as it turns out, this was something to do with System Command allowing him to do that, not an ability he 'possesses' in a standard context



While I understand those that understand the source material better than I, an anime viewer, do (even though I have about 119 pages worth of notes on the series... but let's not get ahead of ourselves), I wouldn't use this as any kind of reason to write off a moon-level peak. Hence, the onslaught of fodder players in numbers higher than the population(s) of the human realm and/or the underworld.

Keep in mind also that if a system that 'guarantees hits' and allows for superhuman reaction times is a part of the system that also facilitates System Command(s), then... what is the difference?

I acknowledge I could be wrong on both counts, but it's still something to consider.
 
Joycap said:
That reminds me: the 'red knights' being frozen en masse - I've been thinking about it wrong. Could the combination of Enhance Armament + Blue Rose life drain be interpreted as 'life wiper' in that context?
Click to expand...
... your very first line and I'm already incredibly confused

like... Just, in general, no?

Sure it drains life but it only covers what has been estimated to be 32 square kilometers, or more straight up, just, an army of 10,000 soliders. That's not wiping an entire planet... or, whatever you're trying to say.

Again I'm incredibly confused even by this initial premise.
 
... Moving on from that, here's how I think everything will shake out from here

Star King would be 7-C scaling to Asuna's feat of splitting open the earth, as the goddess accounts are stated to have maxxed out stats across the board, so having 7-C years to essentially level grind would be more than sufficient to get to that level (Especially considering Quinella also has a similar statement in terms of her abilities with Sacred Arts, which is why she's possibly 7-C)

Now, on that note, they could also scale to 7-B from the Night Sky Sword and Quinella's statement of maxing out her abilities in the Sacred Arts, but I'm not entirely sure myself.
 
I have some confusions regarding the calculation, as well as some issues. But first off, here's the excerpt from the official translation:

I had no fear.
The void that filled my enemy was nothing short of a black hole, but I had swirling galaxies born of a multitude of prayers within me.
The hue of the dark-purple lightning shooting from Gabriel’s eyes and mouth gradually began to shift.
From purple to red. To orange. To yellow—and then to white.
Crack, went a faint noise, and a tiny fissure ran through the liquid-metal body surrounding the Night-Sky Blade.
Then another. And another.
More white light poured from the cracks. The base of the six wings extending from his back began to glow with fire. Where his mouth opened wide with laughter, it began to crumble and lose definition. Holes appeared in his shoulders and chest.
Beams and curtains of light were shooting out of every crack running all over Gabriel’s body, and still he did not stop laughing.
“Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa…”
His voice grew higher and higher pitched until it was nothing more than a metallic whirring vanishing from hearing range.
The great dark angel’s form was entirely covered with white cracks—and in a single instant, it compressed, imploded…
And released.
An explosion of light on a gargantuan scale formed a spiral that shot upward to the heavens.
Click to expand...

As for my concerns, for starters, I am confused as to why we are talking about draining sunlight, as the scene does not have anything to do with the sun, or overblowing Gabriel's body in Underworld with spatial resources.

It is a mere act of streaming all the memory data into his brain for processing. Think of your brain like a CPU. It has a standard clock speed. It has a safe overclock speed. And if you try overclocking it manually beyond the safe limits, it is going to start burning itself.

Kirito's attack is not making Gabriel explode. It's the amount of data being streamed to his head that makes his fluctlight fry out. And the explosion is basically his real fluctlight collapsing under the weight of all that data, it's not an outcome of Kirito just feeding the body in Underworld energy for it to explode. That's why he implodes before launching upwards and exploding. Because his brain is receiving the Mnemonic Data at first, his brain keeps "feeding" on the data, until it can no longer handle it.

Looking at the actual explosion is interesting. I generally would not look at the Anime for references. Of course, it's a bit of a necessity in some cases when there are no clear descriptions, however these this bit attracts my attention:

An explosion of light on a gargantuan scale formed a spiral that shot upward to the heavens
Click to expand...

So first off, whatever the explosion was, Kirito did not face it head on. It literally "shot upwards" rather than exploding on Kirito's face. Anime portrays this as "it explodes and then something shoots upwards", whereas the way it is written, it feels closer to "The explosion created an upwards spiral".

Secondly, the explosion itself. The Anime uses a traditional explosion effect, however the description is interestingly not "an explosion" but an "explosion of light". In Underworld, as we discussed there are no "Light attacks", however there is one literal "explosion of light" that exists within the system. It has quite the low level requirement for it too, as it is one of the most basic combat skills.

"Generate Luminous Element" followed by a "Burst Element". This creates a literal "explosion of light" which is 100% harmless on a physical level as the light has no mass to hurt anyone, it is one of the best tricks in combat, used to blind your opponents. Again, the Anime takes so much liberties in this scene, like it's Gabriel's explosion shooting up getting rid of the black cover on the sky created by the Night Sky Sword whereas the sky clears up slowly as Kirito puts the sword back in its sheath, the sky cover being much higher that it has clouds underneath in the Anime whereas in reality, the cover was below clouds close to the ground etc. So I am on the side of approaching the Anime's depiction in a questionable way.

And you have caught onto a key detail in your approach as well that factors into this. Kirito shows no signs of being hurt at all. He simply gets up as if nothing happened, not even a scratch on him or his outfit. And as you stated, we have 0 mention of an incarnate shield too. Now of course, it could be that Gabriel's Fluctlight gave away before all the resources were depleted, so Kirito would have been able to heal himself, but his statement makes this seem unlikely:

When the light of the stars vanished, so did the energy that was filling my being, and I floated in an exhausted state, face up to the sky.

The left arm that had been cut off and disintegrated was back on my shoulder.
Click to expand...
"It was back", that's a phrasing you wouldn't use if you healed yourself. So I would put that down under subconscious incarnation. Even the Blue Rose Sword is in his hand, which was otherwise held by Eugeo during the final portion of the fight.

However, that still leaves the issue of "tanking the explosion" if we assume it is an actual explosion, and not just a burst of blinding light. No shield, low on health, running on mental fumes at that point, along with still heavily living under the weight of all his guilt. On top of this, the explosion happens after he achieved his goal, to prevent Gabriel from capturing Alice, so there is nothing left in him that would push him to survive without him realizing, he has no subconscious motive to manifest such a thing. On top of this, he has no armor that would protect him, and he is still shy of top human performance age of late twenties, so even as a human, his HP is not at its highest yet. He can heal himself to a certain extent, sure, but he has no reasonable way at all to tank a blast if we assume that is an actual explosion, which just gives more legitimacy to the mention of "explosion of light". Also, healing himself would actually heal his wounds, but not necessarily his clothes. Throughout her fight in the ruins, Asuna consistently heals herself, same as Leafa against the onslaught. They get rid of their wounds, but their clothes remain tattered (which the anime showcases in multiple occasions but does not stick with it, as it is costly to have heavily modified clothes animated as you must track all the tatters to all the movements at all times etc).

All in all, as I always say, look at how its behaving and not what it is stated as. And to me, it sounds more reasonable in this case that it was a weightless blast, rather than the typical explosion the Anime showcased. It even matches how bursting Luminous Elements function. I can even go and mention Luminous Elements are the healing elements of Underworld, which I'm sure would make a possible connection of Kirito getting his arm healed quite clear too, although it cannot be explicitly claimed to be the cause due to the books not mentioning it.

But again, a lot of puzzle pieces land in the correct places when going by this assumption, compared to the other alternative, that leaves a lot of question marks unanswered.

Again, it is quite the vague scene and I am not exactly sure how you guys would want to go ahead with it, but seeing how even the smallest mentions made it clear that Fanatio's attacks were not light attacks, I just tried to provide as much as I can in hopes of you being able to reach a conclusion.
 
Kaantantr said:
I have some confusions regarding the calculation, as well as some issues. But first off, here's the excerpt from the official translation:



As for my concerns, for starters, I am confused as to why we are talking about draining sunlight, as the scene does not have anything to do with the sun, or overblowing Gabriel's body in Underworld with spatial resources.

It is a mere act of streaming all the memory data into his brain for processing. Think of your brain like a CPU. It has a standard clock speed. It has a safe overclock speed. And if you try overclocking it manually beyond the safe limits, it is going to start burning itself.

Kirito's attack is not making Gabriel explode. It's the amount of data being streamed to his head that makes his fluctlight fry out. And the explosion is basically his real fluctlight collapsing under the weight of all that data, it's not an outcome of Kirito just feeding the body in Underworld energy for it to explode. That's why he implodes before launching upwards and exploding. Because his brain is receiving the Mnemonic Data at first, his brain keeps "feeding" on the data, until it can no longer handle it.

Looking at the actual explosion is interesting. I generally would not look at the Anime for references. Of course, it's a bit of a necessity in some cases when there are no clear descriptions, however these this bit attracts my attention:



So first off, whatever the explosion was, Kirito did not face it head on. It literally "shot upwards" rather than exploding on Kirito's face. Anime portrays this as "it explodes and then something shoots upwards", whereas the way it is written, it feels closer to "The explosion created an upwards spiral".

Secondly, the explosion itself. The Anime uses a traditional explosion effect, however the description is interestingly not "an explosion" but an "explosion of light". In Underworld, as we discussed there are no "Light attacks", however there is one literal "explosion of light" that exists within the system. It has quite the low level requirement for it too, as it is one of the most basic combat skills.

"Generate Luminous Element" followed by a "Burst Element". This creates a literal "explosion of light" which is 100% harmless on a physical level as the light has no mass to hurt anyone, it is one of the best tricks in combat, used to blind your opponents. Again, the Anime takes so much liberties in this scene, like it's Gabriel's explosion shooting up getting rid of the black cover on the sky created by the Night Sky Sword whereas the sky clears up slowly as Kirito puts the sword back in its sheath, the sky cover being much higher that it has clouds underneath in the Anime whereas in reality, the cover was below clouds close to the ground etc. So I am on the side of approaching the Anime's depiction in a questionable way.

And you have caught onto a key detail in your approach as well that factors into this. Kirito shows no signs of being hurt at all. He simply gets up as if nothing happened, not even a scratch on him or his outfit. And as you stated, we have 0 mention of an incarnate shield too. Now of course, it could be that Gabriel's Fluctlight gave away before all the resources were depleted, so Kirito would have been able to heal himself, but his statement makes this seem unlikely:


"It was back", that's a phrasing you wouldn't use if you healed yourself. So I would put that down under subconscious incarnation. Even the Blue Rose Sword is in his hand, which was otherwise held by Eugeo during the final portion of the fight.

However, that still leaves the issue of "tanking the explosion" if we assume it is an actual explosion, and not just a burst of blinding light. No shield, low on health, running on mental fumes at that point, along with still heavily living under the weight of all his guilt. On top of this, the explosion happens after he achieved his goal, to prevent Gabriel from capturing Alice, so there is nothing left in him that would push him to survive without him realizing, he has no subconscious motive to manifest such a thing. On top of this, he has no armor that would protect him, and he is still shy of top human performance age of late twenties, so even as a human, his HP is not at its highest yet. He can heal himself to a certain extent, sure, but he has no reasonable way at all to tank a blast if we assume that is an actual explosion, which just gives more legitimacy to the mention of "explosion of light". Also, healing himself would actually heal his wounds, but not necessarily his clothes. Throughout her fight in the ruins, Asuna consistently heals herself, same as Leafa against the onslaught. They get rid of their wounds, but their clothes remain tattered (which the anime showcases in multiple occasions but does not stick with it, as it is costly to have heavily modified clothes animated as you must track all the tatters to all the movements at all times etc).

All in all, as I always say, look at how its behaving and not what it is stated as. And to me, it sounds more reasonable in this case that it was a weightless blast, rather than the typical explosion the Anime showcased. It even matches how bursting Luminous Elements function. I can even go and mention Luminous Elements are the healing elements of Underworld, which I'm sure would make a possible connection of Kirito getting his arm healed quite clear too, although it cannot be explicitly claimed to be the cause due to the books not mentioning it.

But again, a lot of puzzle pieces land in the correct places when going by this assumption, compared to the other alternative, that leaves a lot of question marks unanswered.

Again, it is quite the vague scene and I am not exactly sure how you guys would want to go ahead with it, but seeing how even the smallest mentions made it clear that Fanatio's attacks were not light attacks, I just tried to provide as much as I can in hopes of you being able to reach a conclusion.
Click to expand...
is asuna's town level feat legit
 
Kaantantr said:
As for my concerns, for starters, I am confused as to why we are talking about draining sunlight, as the scene does not have anything to do with the sun, or overblowing Gabriel's body in Underworld with spatial resources.

It is a mere act of streaming all the memory data into his brain for processing. Think of your brain like a CPU. It has a standard clock speed. It has a safe overclock speed. And if you try overclocking it manually beyond the safe limits, it is going to start burning itself.

Kirito's attack is not making Gabriel explode. It's the amount of data being streamed to his head that makes his fluctlight fry out. And the explosion is basically his real fluctlight collapsing under the weight of all that data, it's not an outcome of Kirito just feeding the body in Underworld energy for it to explode. That's why he implodes before launching upwards and exploding. Because his brain is receiving the Mnemonic Data at first, his brain keeps "feeding" on the data, until it can no longer handle it.

Looking at the actual explosion is interesting. I generally would not look at the Anime for references. Of course, it's a bit of a necessity in some cases when there are no clear descriptions, however these this bit attracts my attention:



So first off, whatever the explosion was, Kirito did not face it head on. It literally "shot upwards" rather than exploding on Kirito's face. Anime portrays this as "it explodes and then something shoots upwards", whereas the way it is written, it feels closer to "The explosion created an upwards spiral".

Secondly, the explosion itself. The Anime uses a traditional explosion effect, however the description is interestingly not "an explosion" but an "explosion of light". In Underworld, as we discussed there are no "Light attacks", however there is one literal "explosion of light" that exists within the system. It has quite the low level requirement for it too, as it is one of the most basic combat skills.

"Generate Luminous Element" followed by a "Burst Element". This creates a literal "explosion of light" which is 100% harmless on a physical level as the light has no mass to hurt anyone, it is one of the best tricks in combat, used to blind your opponents. Again, the Anime takes so much liberties in this scene, like it's Gabriel's explosion shooting up getting rid of the black cover on the sky created by the Night Sky Sword whereas the sky clears up slowly as Kirito puts the sword back in its sheath, the sky cover being much higher that it has clouds underneath in the Anime whereas in reality, the cover was below clouds close to the ground etc. So I am on the side of approaching the Anime's depiction in a questionable way.

And you have caught onto a key detail in your approach as well that factors into this. Kirito shows no signs of being hurt at all. He simply gets up as if nothing happened, not even a scratch on him or his outfit. And as you stated, we have 0 mention of an incarnate shield too. Now of course, it could be that Gabriel's Fluctlight gave away before all the resources were depleted, so Kirito would have been able to heal himself, but his statement makes this seem unlikely:

"It was back", that's a phrasing you wouldn't use if you healed yourself. So I would put that down under subconscious incarnation. Even the Blue Rose Sword is in his hand, which was otherwise held by Eugeo during the final portion of the fight.

However, that still leaves the issue of "tanking the explosion" if we assume it is an actual explosion, and not just a burst of blinding light. No shield, low on health, running on mental fumes at that point, along with still heavily living under the weight of all his guilt. On top of this, the explosion happens after he achieved his goal, to prevent Gabriel from capturing Alice, so there is nothing left in him that would push him to survive without him realizing, he has no subconscious motive to manifest such a thing. On top of this, he has no armor that would protect him, and he is still shy of top human performance age of late twenties, so even as a human, his HP is not at its highest yet. He can heal himself to a certain extent, sure, but he has no reasonable way at all to tank a blast if we assume that is an actual explosion, which just gives more legitimacy to the mention of "explosion of light". Also, healing himself would actually heal his wounds, but not necessarily his clothes. Throughout her fight in the ruins, Asuna consistently heals herself, same as Leafa against the onslaught. They get rid of their wounds, but their clothes remain tattered (which the anime showcases in multiple occasions but does not stick with it, as it is costly to have heavily modified clothes animated as you must track all the tatters to all the movements at all times etc).

All in all, as I always say, look at how its behaving and not what it is stated as. And to me, it sounds more reasonable in this case that it was a weightless blast, rather than the typical explosion the Anime showcased. It even matches how bursting Luminous Elements function. I can even go and mention Luminous Elements are the healing elements of Underworld, which I'm sure would make a possible connection of Kirito getting his arm healed quite clear too, although it cannot be explicitly claimed to be the cause due to the books not mentioning it.

But again, a lot of puzzle pieces land in the correct places when going by this assumption, compared to the other alternative, that leaves a lot of question marks unanswered.

Again, it is quite the vague scene and I am not exactly sure how you guys would want to go ahead with it, but seeing how even the smallest mentions made it clear that Fanatio's attacks were not light attacks, I just tried to provide as much as I can in hopes of you being able to reach a conclusion.
Click to expand...
He's covering the sky in darkness, he'd have to get rid of the sunlight in order to do so, presumably by absorbing it considering that's the night sky sword's main ability. If not that, he's still sustaining the darkness and we could use the results from 1 second instead.

I guess I could nitpick specific wording and how the anime doesn't necessarily contradict how it's described, but, in general I already agree with plenty of components that would make the feat too questionable to use, so, eh.
 
So, if confirmed, will they go from level 4 to level 7? will this be the biggest downgrade in the history of this site?
 
GTsek said:
So, if confirmed, will they go from level 4 to level 7? will this be the biggest downgrade in the history of this site?
Click to expand...
Sorry but no, kind of derailing but 4 to 7 is not the biggest, i saw verse got downgrade from High 1-A to 1-A and down to 1-B
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Gorkyss
Kirito Mini Hax Upgrade
Replies
11
Views
845
Gorkyss
Gorkyss
CurrySenpai
SAO Aincrad Pages Fix
Replies
5
Views
854
Small_Ophion
Small_Ophion
CurrySenpai
An actual Aincrad CRT because Mark won't stop complaining
Replies
10
Views
943
Nierre
Nierre
CurrySenpai
SAO Upgrade CRT | Absorbing the Sun or something idk
8 9 10
Replies
365
Views
26K
LephyrTheRevanchist
LephyrTheRevanchist
Jumpierpoet
Kirito vs Inosuke (battle of the Bryce Papenbrook dual-wielders!)
Replies
0
Views
93
Jumpierpoet
Jumpierpoet
Back
Top