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Sword Art Online (Post-Aincrad) Kirito Power Downgrade

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As for scaling, Star Queen Asuna also becomes 7-B via scaling to that feat and dealing critical damage to the Abyssal Horror. Subtilizer is also obviously affected by this, becoming 7-B in his final key.
 
So have you more or less reached an agreement here, with an accepted calculation that you can scale from?
 
I want to wait until @Kaantantr states his opinion on it

If he has one in particular, at least, otherwise I think we're mostly good to go
 
Uhmmm, on what exactly am I to state my opinion on? I checked the personal sandbox page but I am not exactly sure what I should be looking for. All the categories and stuff, that's more your specialty. I can only check if an assumption has any basis in the series or not ^^'
 
Ah,

Right now the idea is scaling the Night Sky Sword to the high tier characters like the Goddesses, considering that a random sword made from a tree probably wouldn't be significantly more potent than them (at least, without also absorbing Incarnation in the process)
 
There are key differences between a Divine Weapon (a weapon that possesses Memory Abilities) to the weapons of the Super Accounts. The Super Accounts have max tier weapons alright with native abilities as well, however those weapons do not possess Memory Abilities. Those weapons were simply generated out of nothing, thus they do not possess what is a "Memory of the Sword", a past existence/life to draw power from.
 
Yeah, but would that necessarily mean they're completely incomparable in power?
 
It's not that they are completely incomparable, but there is a decision to be made. If you ask for an average, a Divine Weapon could be considered on the same level, but they just work on completely different levels.

When a traditional swordfight takes place, a Super Account weapon will likely triumph.

When a Memory Ability is used, the Super Account weapon will likely not be able to compete/block. But on the other side, using a Memory Ability also hurts the durability of the weapon using it as it's being unleashed etc.
 
Yeah, that's sorta what I'd figure.

I think that covers about everything we need to, save for Sub-Rel speed.

You mentioned that the next best if scaling to Mechadragons in terms of combat was invalid would have been a bullet blocking feat, right?
 
From a combat perspective, yeah. Considering magic projectile blocking in ALO is mentioned to be much easier to do by Kirito himself.
 
So what else needs to be done here? The stats are as such:
  • WoU/EoA/SK Kirito: City level with Incarnation and the Night Sky Sword's Release Recollection (calc'd and should be somewhat comparable to Gabriel's own Incarnation)
  • Goddesses and Administrator: Town level with Super Account Powers or Sacred Arts in Administrator's case (calc'd and scaling from Asuna's Super Account power feat)
  • EoA/SQ Asuna: City level with Incarnation and Super Account Powers (or just Super Account powers at the bare minimum; comparable to SK Kirito; majorly damaged the Abyssal Horror)
  • Gabriel: City level with Incarnation (Tanked most of Kirito's Starburst Stream while empowered by the hopes and dreams of everyone; lobbed off Kirito's arm)
I guess the speed of the EoA characters has to be determined too, but Sub-Rel is abouuuuut what we got so far.

Also for the love of God remove Nigh-Omnipotent from SK Kirito, SQ Asuna, and Administrator's profiles. They're not Nigh-Omnipotent, they don't know everything or know nearly everything.
 
Xmark12 said:
Also for the love of God remove Nigh-Omnipotent from SK Kirito, SQ Asuna, and Administrator's profiles. They're not Nigh-Omnipotent, they don't know everything or know nearly everything.
Click to expand...
It's Nigh-Omniscience, not Nigh-Omnipotent, but it still needs to be removed.

Also remove the likely universal range for Kirito since it has been established that the underworld is not universe in size.
 
Xmark12 said:
  • EoA/SQ Asuna: City level with Incarnation and Super Account Powers (or just Super Account powers at the bare minimum; comparable to SK Kirito; majorly damaged the Abyssal Horror)
Click to expand...
There is no reason to assume Stacia is any more powerful at the end than she was before. She already had max stats as a Super Account, so she remains at the same power.

Xmark12 said:
  • Gabriel: City level with Incarnation (Tanked most of Kirito's Starburst Stream while empowered by the hopes and dreams of everyone; lobbed off Kirito's arm)
Click to expand...
Gabriel only tanked the physical portions of the attack. It's the final hit that delivers the mnemonic data stream to his brain, utilizing the drained spatial resources.
Xmark12 said:
I guess the speed of the EoA characters has to be determined too, but Sub-Rel is abouuuuut what we got so far.
Click to expand...
There is no way to determine it at the moment really. The range is "Slower than a transport jet, faster than a normal dragon" which is incredibly large of a range.
 
There is no reason to assume Stacia is any more powerful at the end than she was before. She already had max stats as a Super Account, so she remains at the same power.
Click to expand...

Am mostly scaling from the Abyssal Horror, as it took hits from EoA Kirito, but got majorly damaged by Stacia.

Unless we consider EoA Kirito to not be on the same level of power as he was back in WoU, which would honestly make sense considering you said that in all subsequent dives, Kirito wasn't connected to the root of Incarnation like he was during WoU.

That would mean we'd truly gotta separate EoA and SK into different keys.

Gabriel only tanked the physical portions of the attack. It's the final hit that delivers the mnemonic data stream to his brain, utilizing the drained spatial resources.
Click to expand...

What tier would be satisfactory for Gabriel then? Pretty sure he'd be higher than Wall level, considering Starbrust Stream's showings, esp in the anime where it's shown that the air pressure alone cut through land.

There is no way to determine it at the moment really. The range is "Slower than a transport jet, faster than a normal dragon" which is incredibly large of a range.
Click to expand...

Leave it as Unknown for now before we get some solid feats? Or at least calc Kirito's flight speed since that seems decently solid.
 
Xmark12 said:
Unless we consider EoA Kirito to not be on the same level of power as he was back in WoU, which would honestly make sense considering you said that in all subsequent dives, Kirito wasn't connected to the root of Incarnation like he was during WoU.

That would mean we'd truly gotta separate EoA and SK into different keys.
Click to expand...
That is correct, however the reason I never properly recommended this is because we never really got enough screentime in the novels to make a properly documented distinction between the two. We know they are supposed to be different, but we are never shown in specific ways as to how they are different. The biggest difference I can provide given the currently available content is that in WoU, when Kirito picks up Asuna to fly off, he already knows the exact location of Alice and Gabriel due to being connected to the Main Visualizer, whereas he does not possess such an ability later in Unital Ring.
Xmark12 said:
What tier would be satisfactory for Gabriel then? Pretty sure he'd be higher than Wall level, considering Starbrust Stream's showings, esp in the anime where it's shown that the air pressure alone cut through land.
Click to expand...
Tiers are your specialty. I'm just trying to clarify things so you can pick a tier as accurate as possible. And as explained earlier, the Anime's depiction is not visually faithful, as they made the correct choice in following the novel and make their visuals in such ways to convey the intensity of the scene. As shown in the excerpts I have provided from the books, it's never about describing an actual situation, it's about describing the intensity of the moment. In written media, you achieve this with emotional and strong words. In a visual media, you achieve this via intense camera shakes and exaggerated visual depictions to focus on the energy of the moment.
Xmark12 said:
Leave it as Unknown for now before we get some solid feats? Or at least calc Kirito's flight speed since that seems decently solid.
Click to expand...
The calc is just an upper ceiling limit, not his actual flight speed. Seeing a lot of people thinking it states an actual speed, so maybe we should further change the description of the tier on Kirito's article to be more specific to highlight that it is "Unknown within the range of "Transport Vehicle - Normal Dragon".
 
Kaantantr said:
The calc is just an upper ceiling limit, not his actual flight speed. Seeing a lot of people thinking it states an actual speed, so maybe we should further change the description of the tier on Kirito's article to be more specific to highlight that it is "Unknown within the range of "Transport Vehicle - Normal Dragon".
Click to expand...
I think the speed should be an "At most Sub-Relativistic" or "Unknown; possibly Sub-Relativistic"

The "At most" would mean that it is the upper ceiling limit so that people will know that he can't possibly go any faster than that.
 
Xmark12 said:
What tier would be satisfactory for Gabriel then? Pretty sure he'd be higher than Wall level, considering Starbrust Stream's showings, esp in the anime where it's shown that the air pressure alone cut through land.
Click to expand...
He should at least be above his previous key which was town level. Or maybe just town level+
Kaantantr said:
There is no reason to assume Stacia is any more powerful at the end than she was before. She already had max stats as a Super Account, so she remains at the same power.
Click to expand...
Is it possible she got stronger through incarnation?
 
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Would it be a good idea to just make Alic/Star King just it’s own separate profile? Kirito has like, 6 bloody keys or something and half of it is just Alicization. Plus, everyone only comes to visit the profile JUST for that one key.
 
Smashtwig said:
Would it be a good idea to just make Alic/Star King just it’s own separate profile? Kirito has like, 6 bloody keys or something and half of it is just Alicization. Plus, everyone only comes to visit the profile JUST for that one key.
Click to expand...
I don't think it'd be worth it. At the risk of sounding like I'm exerting nursery logic, Kirito is Kirito, and I think it's easier to associate this with his page.

Unless you're saying that Alicization treats him like Archie Sonic, which isn't really an argument when you consider that everything from Aincrad to WoU is canon for him.
 
Smashtwig said:
Would it be a good idea to just make Alic/Star King just it’s own separate profile? Kirito has like, 6 bloody keys or something and half of it is just Alicization. Plus, everyone only comes to visit the profile JUST for that one key.
Click to expand...
I guess we can go with Kirito (Aincrad) | Kirito (Post-Aincrad/Pre-Alicization) | Kirito (Alicization)
 
But things like GGO / ALO are a completely different tier and powerset, don’t think we can just group that into one key

(Also GGO is the best purely because they switch to the superior weapon: gun)
 
I remember it being talked about, then SomebodyData just said "Samus is all compressed into one key so nah"

frankly I don't really care as much, either way

On the topic of Sub-Rel, honestly I'd be fine just leaving it as is but it also implies that the Goddesses and Gabriel would scale, which feels a little bit easier

Not that they really have any anti-feats against it from my recollection, but

Honestly it may be better to just go for "At least Subsonic/Supersonic, possibly Sub Rel"
 
There is no way to determine it at the moment really. The range is "Slower than a transport jet, faster than a normal dragon" which is incredibly large of a range.

I hold the opinion that being slower than someone isn't a feat. I'm slower than a spaceship, that doesn't mean I should be given "At least Average Human, possibly/at most Hypersonic".

Just index them based on the stuff they're as fast as/faster than.

For everyone else in the thread, there is no possibility that Kirito hits that speed, because we know he is slower.
 
I definitely wouldn't scale his travel speed, but in combat he should be comparable to the abyssal horror
 
I mean, there is no reason for Abyssal Horror's combat speed to be high. Again, it uses Umbral Elements to attack and drains resources around. It's just another game monster.
 
So for now, EoA Kirito should have Town level Release Recollection via scaling from Stacia's own terrain manipulation feats; both of whom are able to damage the Abyssal Horror, so.

As for speed, wasn't there a feat where Kirito crossed some kind of long distance quickly via flight? Like heading to the Dark Territory via flight really quickly while holding Ronye in Moon Cradle. Maybe we can even calc Kirito holding Asuna and heading to the World End Altar. Pretty sure it was when he was connected to the Main Visualizer, but he should at least be somewhat comparable to that, so "Subsonic normally, [Insert whatever speed the calc would yield] flight speed ([insert the calc here]. EoA Kirito would be slower than this, but still comparable)"
 
Xmark12 said:
Maybe we can even calc Kirito holding Asuna and heading to the World End Altar.
Click to expand...
The problem is that a lot of people won't accept that because it's even before the 200 year period. Kirito carried Asuna to the World's End Altar in "over 5 minutes", which is a short distance on its own in the grand scheme of things. You'll hear the same complaint for the MC flight as well. It's somewhat justified of an argument, but it also completely blocks off any kind of actual speed feat to be featured which I find troublesome.
 
The problem is that a lot of people won't accept that because it's even before the 200 year period. Kirito carried Asuna to the World's End Altar in "over 5 minutes", which is a short distance on its own in the grand scheme of things.
Click to expand...

Then we can just put it in his WoU key. Honestly I think people would accept it. It's a feat and could still be used.

You'll hear the same complaint for the MC flight as well. It's somewhat justified of an argument, but it also completely blocks off any kind of actual speed feat to be featured which I find troublesome.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by blocking off any kind of actual speed feat to be featured? If you're talking about any future speed feats, then the flight speed calc won't block off any feats. Essentially, if a speed feat in the future is faster, we'll just use that feat instead and have the original feat be supplementary. For now, I think it's okay to at least try calcing the speed feat and see if it can be used.
 
Is it possible that we can calc the speed of the normal dragons from where Bercouli and Vecta fought to the distance they traveled to reach to world's end altar?

If so we can have a lower limit to Kirito's speed since he's faster than a normal dragon.

The upper ceiling limit is currently Sub-Relativistic due to being slower than a transport vehicle but not knowing how much slower. (It's possible they're in the same tier just that their speed values are different)

If we can calculate the speed of the dragons it could be like this "Unknown; At least [Whatever speed the dragons are]; At most Sub-Relativistic"

The at least and at most would mean he is in-between those two tiers or faster than the former but slower than the latter.

It would also be a good indicator since the "at least" would mean that he can't be any slower and the "at most" would mean he can't be any faster.

I know that he is faster than a normal dragon but by how much is not clear. The same is also true for the transport vehicle. (Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.)
 
is this legit

When Kirito woke from his comatose state, he had used maximum-speed wind-element flight to chase after Emperor Vecta, who had abducted Alice. At the time, Asuna knew nothing about the geography of the Underworld, so it was only afterward that she understood how far he’d flown them. In fact, he’d flown a distance of more than six hundred miles in just five minutes, carrying Asuna in one arm. That would be nearly 7,500 per hour, ten times the speed of sound

SAO Volume 20, Moon's Cradle: Chapter 7.
 
Cyberblader90 said:
is this legit


When Kirito woke from his comatose state, he had used maximum-speed wind-element flight to chase after Emperor Vecta, who had abducted Alice. At the time, Asuna knew nothing about the geography of the Underworld, so it was only afterward that she understood how far he’d flown them. In fact, he’d flown a distance of more than six hundred miles in just five minutes, carrying Asuna in one arm. That would be nearly 7,500 per hour, ten times the speed of sound

SAO Volume 20, Moon's Cradle: Chapter 7.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that sounds legit. Honestly can be used for WoU Kirito's flight speed, then maybe put "At least" for the EoA/SK key until we get better speed feats.
 
Cyberblader90 said:
is this legit


When Kirito woke from his comatose state, he had used maximum-speed wind-element flight to chase after Emperor Vecta, who had abducted Alice. At the time, Asuna knew nothing about the geography of the Underworld, so it was only afterward that she understood how far he’d flown them. In fact, he’d flown a distance of more than six hundred miles in just five minutes, carrying Asuna in one arm. That would be nearly 7,500 per hour, ten times the speed of sound

SAO Volume 20, Moon's Cradle: Chapter 7.
Click to expand...
Yeah I remember reading that. That can used to easier determine his speed so his speed would be hypersonic?
 
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