Too High Hypersonic+… AND BEYOND!

[CurrySenpai]

No one needs to actually know what this thread was originally about but in the fight against the Abyssal Horror Asuna not only summons a super fast meteor but the abyssal horror also reacts to it.

It’s already well established Kirito and Asuna grew stronger during the 200 year period so based off of DMUA’s calc we have proof for High Hypersonic+ and supporting evidence for 7-B. Pretty simple

 

[RitsuØ1]

I don't see a problem if the calc is accepted.

 

[DMUA]

[Silly Anime Chuuni Speech]

Honestly you might have gotten away with it without this

I physically would not be able to exist upon the corporeal plane knowing I let a stat upgrade with this happen

(Also the calc is just wrong and takes assumptions that don't make sense)

 

[DMUA]

I was making an understatement by saying it was wrong, I'm reeling and viscerally angry that such a bloated density was used, honestly

How many times do I need to state that a feat just needs to exist to be valid?

How many times?

 

[CurrySenpai]

How many times do I need to state that a feat just needs to exist to be valid?

How many times?

Well I mean the feat exists it was just I calculated it wrong.

Apologies for wasting everyone's time though this can just be closed.

 

[Shmooply]

[Silly Anime Chuuni Speech]
This is it DMUA, Kaantantr. Today I'll go beyond Plus Ultra and bring Kirito back to a rightful tier! In the end I lost plenty of friends and foes... But I stood strong and never faltered once! I continued to fight on so that my dream could be realized! I realized what I did wrong... I wasn't looking at it from the right perspective! I continually searched for feats that had shaky validity when I should have just used what already definitively existed! I've finally manifested it, my ideal world, my ideal outcome! This is my incarnation for all to see!!!!!!!!

 

[SeijiSetto]

i echo DMUA's sentiment (to a less aneurysm-inducing rage-like extent)

the calc is just Not Very Good, how did you read a density given to you [2g cm^-3] and come to the conclusion that you had to multiply it by the diameter of the asteroid to get... density again?

 

[CurrySenpai]

i echo DMUA's sentiment (to a less aneurysm-inducing rage-like extent)

the calc is just Not Very Good, how did you read a density given to you [2g cm^-3] and come to the conclusion that you had to multiply it by the diameter of the asteroid to get... density again?

Look, I get it. No need to rub mud in my eyes. Just let the thread get closed.

 

[Dalesean027]

I was making an understatement by saying it was wrong, I'm reeling and viscerally angry that such a bloated density was used, honestly

Okay wait so I wasn't mistaken Meteors: 3000-3700 kg/m^3 was the right way to go

 

[CurrySenpai]

Okay wait so I wasn't mistaken Meteors: 3000-3700 kg/m^3 was the right way to go

Yeah. Although if anyone does see this it was mainly my fault it went through. I pushed for the asteroid stuff and thought it was the right way to go without realizing I was dipping into extremely absurd territories. Please don’t put anything on Dalesan he was just trying to help and I appreciate him and his work here as well as DMUA’s for correcting me.

 

[DMUA]

I did the math.

I'd like to apologize to Currysenpai and redirect my anger at the people who suggested she use these numbers. You know who you are.

 

[DMUA]

Thinking about it, 25 KM/s is High Hypersonic+ attack speed, and you do see the Abyssal Horror actually react to it (though ineffectively, given it's lack of strength to stop it's advance), so there's an actual speed feat at least

 

[CurrySenpai]

Thinking about it, 25 KM/s is High Hypersonic+ attack speed, and you do see the Abyssal Horror actually react to it (though ineffectively, given it's lack of strength to stop it's advance), so there's an actual speed feat at least

I can change the title and stuff then. Guess we can transition this into a speed and 7-B supporting evidence thread.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Yeah, 7-B is far more reasonable. I have no idea how you got a density of 40000000 kgm^-3

 

[CurrySenpai]

Yeah, 7-B is far more reasonable. I have no idea how you got a density of 40000000 kgm^-3

Regardless gimme a moment, this is giving me a bit of motivation to finish up Accel Worlds stuff and make an incarnation abilities page.

 

[CurrySenpai]

OP changed

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

7-B stuff and HHS+ stuff is fine. Don't beat yourself up too much over the mistake. Happens.

 

[Kaantantr]

That was an interesting convo to catch up on ^^'

I was looking at the calculation (as well as the original one) to look for a source on the "super fast meteor" that was mentioned. And I have not seen a single mention in the citations, just an assumption that it "must be going that fast, because it's mentioned as an asteroid/meteor". Whereas the term is literally just there to define the object, it's physical appearance specifically.

It basically reads "a large chunk of rock" really and because it's a large rock in space, it goes with space related terminology. In fact, the Japanese text uses the term "meteorite" (among other terms), which is technically a meteor that has already collided with earth.

It's really just an earth projectile attack. Asuna spawns the numerous pieces nearby and hurls them at the Abyssal Horror. They are all in very close proximity and the events transpire slow enough that everyone can just watch things happen quite casually. That fact is the only statement where one can gauge the speed, which at close proximity, means it definitely was not the fastest things around.

 

[CurrySenpai]

It's really just an earth projectile attack. Asuna spawns the numerous pieces nearby and hurls them at the Abyssal Horror. They are all in very close proximity and the events transpire slow enough that everyone can just watch things happen quite casually. That fact is the only statement where one can gauge the speed, which at close proximity, means it definitely was not the fastest things around.

I actually questioned that because Asuna’s main thing is Terrain Manipulation and while I don’t know how strong she got during the 200 years but it felt weird for her to summon/create a meteor out of no where (at least that’s what shown in the manga, anime, and said in the light novel). I think the best thing to go with is just the interpretation that it’s an asteroid though because while technically just a space rock attack the way it’s presented just makes that interpretation more convenient I guess you could say?

 

[DMUA]

to look for a source on the "super fast meteor"

It's worth keeping in mind that writers often don't really think about how fast celestial objects move relative to humans. It's not super fast, it's just that the orbital speed of an asteroid happens to be 25 kilometers per second and that's way faster than the (legitimate) feats that have been dug up for them

I guess it's not directly described as an asteroid, but apparently asteroids are officially described as a form of dwarf planet (and that makes way more sense than being actual planetary bodies, given there are only two planets in the Underworld) and that is what this attack is compared to, so it'd seem a bit strange for it to actually just be a random big rock Asuna threw at 400 meters per second or something

 

[Kaantantr]

Why would it be that strange? First off, there is a distinction to be made here, which was what I tried in my first response. The nature of the rock and the speed of it are completely separate aspects. I wasn't arguing it's some random rock from Anatolia that is rich in its minerals and is good for cultivating certain types of fruit. I was stating that there is not a single mention of its speed.

It's literally said that Asuna generated a piece of geometry out of nowhere in a stationary position, so there's no reason to assume an actual meteor coming from space that has accumulated that speed throughout a space that does not even exist, speed which would also be relative to the earths movement (which all space related movements are based on due to their relativity to us, earth be moving fast around the sun and in space). Everyone else is also stationary above Cardina, aside from those in Dragonjets of course who are bound to be moving slightly, even though fairly slowly with their engines broken.

And then everyone can watch the debris fly towards Abyssal Horror and collide with it for a period of time.

The first thing that comes to my mind when looking at the calculations is, there is so much effort being put in to calculate the size of Abyssal Horror with pixel measurements (even though there's so many inconsistencies in drawings), why not simply check for a shot that showcases any sort of distance between AH and others, watch how many seconds it takes for the collision and then calculate with the exact same process? I'm sure that is easily possible utilizing perspective.

The assumption of 25km/s feels absurd, when debris moves for numerous seconds with all eyes on it carefully observing, in a distance where I'd be surprised if its more than 2-3km. Even closer for Kirito, but our person of interest is Asuna in this case. Asuna, Kirito, Alice, they are all in a spot where they can easily be recognized as human figures by Stica and Laura, and they are not bunched up in a spot, they are scattered around the Abyssal Horror. And mind you, Abyssal Horror must be spotting them too, which is a much larger entity. How far do you think you can spot an ant on the ground for example, relative to your size? 5 meters maybe? 10 feels like a stretch. Etc etc.

All in all, a meteor is a large rock in space and what kind of a rock we are talking about is particularly irrelevant when gauging its speed. It's somewhere along the lines of "John Doe is twice as old as Jane Doe. So how much water did John drink this morning?".

 

[DMUA]

It's literally said that Asuna generated a piece of geometry out of nowhere in a stationary position, so there's no reason to assume an actual meteor coming from space

... Does it? Because as far as I can discern, it's described that dwarf planets should be long gone, yet something with immense gravity came forward and smashed into the creature, it's a pretty direct comparison of something IRL (Asteroids, which are described as dwarf planets) that we have a known speed for.

And then everyone can watch the debris fly towards Abyssal Horror and collide with it for a period of time.

Cinematic Time. Inherently fiction can't have super fast fighters be accurately represented in terms of timeframe, as otherwise it would be impossible for us to tell what's happening. In your case, you demonstrate it pretty well; if it did crash into it within like .08 seconds, it would be pretty hard to figure out what just happened, but that doesn't strictly negate that it's an extremely fast object, just that a visual medium needs things to be visible (or that a described medium needs to be comprehensible, but I don't know if it really drags out the description of it flying forward and contacting instead of just describing what the object is and the fact it made contact)

why not simply check for a shot that showcases any sort of distance between AH and others, watch how many seconds it takes for the collision and then calculate with the exact same process?

That'd definitely require anglesizing, which is not only a lot more of a pain to get right, but also just inherently is prone to getting results that don't make sense (especially in this case, since we don't really see the meteor itself admist the sheer amount of flame surrounding it before it just explodes on contact with the abyssal horror), so it's just not very worth it, especially to overwrite just rating a known object at a speed that it's been recorded at IRL.

All in all, a meteor is a large rock in space and what kind of a rock we are talking about is particularly irrelevant when gauging its speed. It's somewhere along the lines of "John Doe is twice as old as Jane Doe. So how much water did John drink this morning?".

An asteroid is a large rock in space that we have a reference on the speed in which it travels at. That's not a non sequitur, it's wondering how much John weighs as a result of the water he's drunk.

 

[Kaantantr]

An asteroid is a large rock in space that we have a reference on the speed in which it travels at.

If I throw a bullet with my hand, are you going to claim it travels at the same speed that it does when shot from a gun?

 

[DMUA]

If you cast spell "Bullet" and the narrative went out of it's way to mention how ballistic projectiles are outlawed, and yet there was a small hole through my head after it fired, I think that would be a relatively fair assumption.

 

[Kaantantr]

That was actually a very helpful explanation for what I was trying to explain.

Was the hole created because the bullet exploded in your head? Because the hole in Abyssal Horror was created because of the explosion, not because some super fast projectile just shot through it.

 

[DMUA]

Explosions are something that IRL meteors do as well on contact (typically not in space, but if I remember right the Underworld doesn't really discount space from the effects of the atmosphere in terms of it's mechanics), it's not just a blunt object going fast, even if it does also typically orbit at 25 kilometers per second.

 

[Kaantantr]

I don't see how that is relevant. You mentioned

If you cast spell "Bullet" and the narrative went out of it's way to mention how ballistic projectiles are outlawed, and yet there was a small hole through my head after it fired, I think that would be a relatively fair assumption.

so I was merely stating that the hole was not even created by the speed of the projectile, but rather its explosion. In fact, I'd argue it would have gone through without an explosion if it was actually going any fast, since Abyssal Horror is an NM with umbral properties, not necessarily anything to make it physically durable to stop a meteor that's going at blazing speeds.

Sorry for replying late btw, busy periods during my masters so I keep forgetting to come back to this...

 

[DMUA]

In fact, I'd argue it would have gone through without an explosion if it was actually going any fast, since Abyssal Horror is an NM with umbral properties, not necessarily anything to make it physically durable to stop a meteor that's going at blazing speeds.

It has umbral properties but I don't believe it's literally darkness (or if it is, the gang interacts with it like it's a normal object given it can be flash frozen and the explosion actually makes a lasting hole rather than having the flash of light just completely cancel out the entire creature)

I don't see how that is relevant.

Because this entire argument is predicated on an asteroid acting like an asteroid, where exploding during a crash is one of those. If it does indeed replicate it's properties that closely, it would be strange to assume that it actually goes over ten times slower than it's natural orbiting speed.

That is the point of the bullet comparison, because for all intents and purposes it's compared to an IRL projectile, and trying to say that it's actually significantly slower doesn't add up.

 

[Kaantantr]

It has umbral properties but I don't believe it's literally darkness

It isn't, but I never stated it's a nebulus cloud or something anyways. What I meant was, it really does not have any properties that'd cause anyone to assume that it's body is simply tougher than a typical, fleshy creature. At least one would have some basis to argue that it has extra hard body, if it has lets say crystalline element properties for example. So for all intents and purposes, it's literally just a flesh blob roaming about in space.

an asteroid acting like an asteroid

Asteroid acted like an asteroid. By existing as a "rock in space". That's what an asteroid is. It's speed is not inherent to the specification of "being an asteroid".

where exploding during a crash is one of those

May I ask if you ever simply threw a solid rock at another object? Most things, including rocks in space, actually can easily "explode", even by something as simple as throwing with your arm. For the crumbling of an object, the requirement is not that it travels at a minimum speed of whatever the relative speed of a space rock is, to our also moving earth.

And in fact, just went for a quick research on how solid asteroids/meteorites generally are. Turns out, generally speaking, they are not very hard at all that you can just simply smash them with a typical hammer.

I will remind you that the reason an asteroid moves so fast is because it likely spent an unimaginable amount of time in space being affected by the gravitational fields of countless objects and this speed is further amplified by our earth moving at about 30km/s. These meteors are not spawned by someone, and given movement with the swing of an arm.

Furthermore, we can clearly see the Abyssal Horror not only "look" at the meteor in cinematic timing. We actually get to watch it, in normal time, reacting to it. Not "failing to react to it because the meteor goes 25km/s" where you can claim cinematic timing, a proper reaction after gazing at the meteor, bringing its tentacles to parry the blow. And we know about the reaction time of the Abyssal Horror with its tentacles, it cannot even react to half broken dragoncrafts flying around like mosquitos, or react to the ice projectiles heading to it from Blue Rose Sword's PWC.

All in all, "speed" is not an inherent property of an asteroid/meteor, it does not just propel itself to that speed upon birth. In fact, the only inherent property of it is that it is a "piece of rock in space", usually softer than things you'd find on earth, thus making it easier to explode upon impact.

 

[Xmark12]

Sooo, has this ever been accepted or-

 

[CurrySenpai]

No way, hi mark, I think this was accepted, we were just letting Kaantantr and uh DMUA finish up their stuff

 

[Xmark12]

I'm still retired lol, I just sometimes like looking at vsfw profiles, which leads to threads like these. But bettt

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

So did this get accepted?

 

[CurrySenpai]

Yeah

 

[GarrixianXD]

2 staff approvals are needed to apply accepted calcs, so no.

 

[CurrySenpai]

2 staff approvals are needed to apply accepted calcs, so no.

Then accept it :3

 

[GarrixianXD]

Then accept it :3

I'm not a thread mod, can't approve this, sorry.

 

[CurrySenpai]

I'm not a thread mod, can't approve this, sorry.

Okay but you should evaluate it anyway

 

[GarrixianXD]

I'm sure I said that 7-B is far more reasonable which means I agree with 7-B, including the HHS attack speed since it is a quotient of its kinetic energy.

 

[Kaantantr]

The issue was never the calculation, but rather the underlying logic. The claim is that a large rock generated in space and is visually described as a "meteor", actually goes at the speeds a typical meteor we observe in relation to the speed of our earth.

The reality is that a large pieces of rock were generated in space and hurled at an enemy. This is no different than your typical rock throwing via earthbending, quite literally. Stacia abilities of Asuna controls geometry with physical motions.