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Superman (Pre-Crisis) VS Zen'ō

I'm always going to show distaste for fights involving Zeno, considering it was confirmed he isn't even a fighter in-universe and seriously lacks feats.

Regardless, Superman has no resistance to EE from what I can tell and Zeno can erase 6 universes on a whim, so I think Zeno could easily erase Superman at any moment.

On Superman's side...Zeno has poor reactions and may lack durability. Zeno couldn't even see Dyspo (whereas Frieza could block and dodge every single attack from Dyspo, besides a single surprise punch) and the Grand Priest consistently protected Zeno.

So, overall? Superman can probably blitz and kill Zeno but Zeno could probably erase Superman on a whim. I'd consider this inconclusive on the basis that I doubt Superman would go for the kill against an alien child, right off the bat but I also sincerely doubt Zeno would go for EE against someone as kindhearted and inspiring as Superman.

So this depends purely on who decides to kill first. Zeno is childlike so I imagine he would erase Superman faster than Superman would murder what is, from his perspective, a child.

Overall, I consider this to be in Zeno's favor, maybe inconclusive.
 
Weren't omega beams capable of erasing someone from existence? I'm not sure if pre crisis superman was ever hit by the omega beams but post flashpoint superman has resistance to existence erasure added in his page. Is it possible that zeno cant erase superman
 
If this were bloodlusted, Superman would speed blitz and kill Zeno, zero difficulty. But since it isn't bloodlusted, it's based on how quickly Superman would kill a child and how quickly Zeno would get angry and erase Superman.

IIRC SBA states that they are in-character but willing to kill (if they have to). Superman is going to likely go for a non-lethal approach but Zeno is going to just erase Superman casually, unless Superman manages to appeal to Zeno enough that Zeno wouldn't want to erase him.

However, Superman could speed blitz into a non-lethal takedown before Zeno can EE.

So, overall? Superman can speed blitz but if he hesitates to hurt Zeno, a childlike being, Zeno will erase Superman instantly.
 
I'm still going with Superman. Even if he didn't go for a lethal approach immediately, he'd atleast incapitate him or use something else before Zeno can react because he's simply way too fast for Zeno to counter.
 
Yeah, I'd agree but I'm hesitating due to Superman's personality. I'm not really sure if he would just knock out what he considers a child on the spot. Whereas Zeno would probably just erase Superman if he was told he had to defeat him.

So, it's based on whether or not Superman would hesitate, in my opinion.
 
Superman being faster means nothing if he simply lacks the AP to hurt Zeno. This is inconclusive since we don't know how far into 2-C is he. On the other side Zeno can be a glass cannon always getting protected by GP and bodyguards. We don't know for sure
 
CryoTheMayo said:
On Superman's side...Zeno has poor reactions and may lack durability. Zeno couldn't even see Dyspo (whereas Frieza could block and dodge every single attack from Dyspo, besides a single surprise punch) and the Grand Priest consistently protected Zeno.
Click to expand...
Zeno not being able to see Dyspo is an outlier. Since he can later perceive a much faster UI Goku and Jiren
 
The real cal howard said:
Supes just needs to be above 2x universal to hurt Zeno so the gap would be small enough. Zeno is 8x baseline, so anything above 2x can chip.
Click to expand...
9x as there were 18 original universes
 
I'm pretty sure Superman is way above baseline with his timelines feat, as there were potentially hundreds of alternate timelines, all of which are considered alternate universes in DC. At the bare minimum there are a few dozen

That plus his speed would easily be over Zeno as far as I know. Though if Superman isn't bloodlusted I see Zeno being far more willing to kill Superman before Superman kills him.

Question, can Zeno time travel? Cause if Superman can BFR him into another point in time that could be considered a win.
 
If Superman timeline BFR'd Zeno then he'd probably EE the timeline along with everything in it, still killing Superman. So yeah.
 
AW YEAH, you went through with it!

Well... looking at this, I actually think Superman outright outclasses here. I don't even see anything Zen'ō can do without a bloodlust or speed equalization.

Wait... how is Superman only baseline again?
 
Akreious said:
If Superman timeline BFR'd Zeno then he'd probably EE the timeline along with everything in it, still killing Superman. So yeah.
Click to expand...
While that's true, Superman can easily notice Zeno destroying the timeline (his Xray vision not only can see through time but he has precognition to events about to happen) He can also hop universes in seconds at worst, and even go outside of the multiverse given some time.

The thing is, if Zeno starts destroying timelines i'm pretty sure Superman is gonna take the fight way more seriously and is more likely to incapacitate Zeno at the worst, potentially killing him if there is no other option. Zeno really needs to either kill Superman outright or Superman speedblitz him. So either it's goes Superman 6/10 or it's Inconclusive (unless i'm really underestimating how powerful Zeno is) but Zeno absolutely has a chance.

Funnily enough, Post-Flashpoint actually has resistance to High tier Reality Warping and EE (from a 5D being and Darkseid no less) but Pre-Crisis doesn't.
 
Nah. If Zeno uses EE then Superman gets popped since he has no resistance to EE. Which is Zeno's opening move.
 
ProudLearner said:
Isnt' this a stomp by superman?
Click to expand...
No, Zeno can easily kill Superman if he goes all out, but so can Superman. The fact that both are in character means it really depends on whose willing to hit first.

Superman has a massive edge in speed and AP so I lean more towards him, but in character it's hard to say how far he'd go against a blue Oompa Loompa
 
The 2nd Existential Seed said:
Can anyone prove that Supes has that big of an edge in AP with scans ?
Click to expand...
were not saying he has the edge, were just saying since superman has ap large enough to hurt zeno and since supermans faster, this is a win for superman.
 
Inconclusive.

Both can definitely win, it would just depend on who does what first. If Supes gets serious, he'll take this with his level of Speed and AP. However, Zen'o's entire thing is erasure and it's opening move.

Given that, I see no reason to give either a win over the other.
 
I'm going to vote Inconclusive for now. This entire fight is based on who acts first. Superman could easily blitz and defeat Zeno but if he, in-character, hesitates even slightly against a child, he will get erased instantly.

So this entire match is based purely around who attacks first. I'm not familiar enough with Superman to claim he would hesitate or not but I'm familiar enough with Zeno to know that he will opt for erasure as his first, and only, move.
 
Actually, not sure on that. I've always heard that Superman is actually fairly slow (relatively speaking) in terms of combat speed but he can accelerate to absurd speeds if he has the time to fly.

We don't really know how fast Zeno is. We know he could perceive everyone up until Dyspo's Light Bullet technique but even Champa was struggling with it and Vados seemingly implied that she, herself, was barely keeping up. If we take this literally, then Beerus probably would have struggled to perceive Dyspo's movements, when Beerus has a feat of travelling from one end of the universe to the other in 10 seconds. In-fact, Beerus's profile lists him as being 3/4th the speed of Whis, who is 498 quadrillion times the speed of light. The Dragon World is over 100x the size of our own universe (IIRC).

So Zeno may actually scale to being on-par with Beerus and Champa's reactions, who would both scale to travelling from one end of the universe to the other end in under 10 seconds. As a result, Zeno is probably at least comparable to Superman's own reflexes.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
Actually, not sure on that. I've always heard that Superman is actually fairly slow (relatively speaking) in terms of combat speed but he can accelerate to absurd speeds if he has the time to fly.

We don't really know how fast Zeno is. We know he could perceive everyone up until Dyspo's Light Bullet technique but even Champa was struggling with it and Vados seemingly implied that she, herself, was barely keeping up. If we take this literally, then Beerus probably would have struggled to perceive Dyspo's movements, when Beerus has a feat of travelling from one end of the universe to the other in 10 seconds. In-fact, Beerus's profile lists him as being 3/4th the speed of Whis, who is 498 quadrillion times the speed of light. The Dragon World is over 100x the size of our own universe (IIRC).

So Zeno may actually scale to being on-par with Beerus and Champa's reactions, who would both scale to travelling from one end of the universe to the other end in under 10 seconds. As a result, Zeno is probably at least comparable to Superman's own reflexes.
Click to expand...
Superman can easily kill Zeno. Zeno can easily kill Superman vía EE...

So if you are right, since Zeno and Supes reflexes are barely =, this battle is based on who acts first. Then, this is inconclusive...
 
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