Superman (Post-Crisis) vs Kharn the Betrayer Rematch

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

It isn't fair because that weaponry can destroy souls with a touch and feed them directly to Khorne. Some also have passive rage aura which annihilates minds.

Gorechild isn't fair either. Although Kharn is incredibly skilled a single touch from Gorechild is implied to destroy souls or induce death.

In Warhammer, beings still have power within them. Though it does come from the Warp.

"He drifted towards Ahriman, and it took no special skills to feel the primal, bruising energy that suffused this traveller's flesh. His sheer vitality was incredible. Ahriman was a controlled reactor, but this warrior was a violent supernova. Both were deadly, both burned as bright, but where Ahriman could pluck a single soul out of a horde of millions, this warrior would destroy a million to kill the one."

 

[PsychoWarper]

I mean Khorne negates projectiles hell he even negated bullets and tank fire.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Which... again, is a thing they have simply because they are daemons. They are born with it. You might as well say they are unfair for being able to walk. They battle people with equipment custom made to kill them or that also dura negs, and those demons get such weapons because they prove themselves. I see no unfairness.

That's simply a description of their power. It is not some "inside power" or essence or anything like that. Hence "sheer vitality". Those things can be sensed, obviously.

Oh yeah, something something Khorne also finds projectiles dishonorable. That one I do find pretty bullshit.

 

[PsychoWarper]

I mean technically psykers are born with their powers as well.

Anyway lets just get back to the battle, does Supes lobotomy before he gets killed?

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Daemons do not have passive rage aura as a standard part of their physiology and I fail to see how a Daemon with a soul destroying sword is fair against say a normal Adeptus Astartes.

...The context is they're inside the Warp as in they projected their essences into the Warp and this man comes to save Ahriman from some Daemons. Ahriman is sensing the essence of the guy. Literally calling it a "supernova" of energy. I can bring more quotes if this one somehow wasn't enough.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Anyway by this same logic we can just say Superman's powers come from the sun and be done with it.

 

[LordUrien935]

I mean technically psykers are born with their powers as well.
Anyway lets just get back to the battle, does Supes lobotomy before he gets killed?

Not unless he's bloodlusted. Which might be fair to do since Kharn has a lot more advantages than Superman does.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Bump

Should I bloodlust Superman (It seems like we are putting alot in his favor just for this fight to be fair).

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Bloodlusting Superman just leads to the same problem that the match is currently is in: he'll just win due to lombotimizing Kharn. Just as Kharn wins due to having the skill and the weapon to immediately kill Superman.

Honestly, I see no real way to balance the fight that won't favor one or the other.

Kharn wins due to Gorechild, his sheer skill and the fact that Superman's initial tactics will feed into Kharn's wincon. Bloodlusting Superman will allow him to win because he's just dura-neg or lobotomize Kharn from the get-go.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Bump

 

[PapiSavitar5025]

Giving Superman knowledge on Gorechild for me is a good idea, it won't make him immedietly go for the lobotomize option. He absolutely loathes killing or crossing that line, and will only do it if it's an ultimate last resort. He'll know that Gorechild can easily kill him, so he'll probably be playing defensive most of the time and try and maybe get Kharn to space or something. I'm probably gonna have to go Incon here.

 

[PsychoWarper]

But how is Supes gonna get him to space? Hed likely have to get close which is not a good idea.

 

[PapiSavitar5025]

First thing he'd do is probably try and get rid of the Gorechild from his grasp or something. He's also a lot stronger too, Class 100 compared to Stellar, he'd easily beable to restrain Kharn if they got into some sort of arm lock.

 

[PsychoWarper]

While true that still means hed have to get close and Kharn can still one shot and theres a large skill gap.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Getting anywhere close to Kharn to even think of attempting that is asking for Superman to get chopped into pieces.

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

I mean, is it? If speed is equalized, then Kharn has no possible way to retract Gorechild if he commits to a swing before Superman could just grab it by the sides and stop it, then wrench it from his grip. Skill isn't at play when it comes to that, and Supes has the LS advantage, so Kharn wouldn't be able to keep ahold of it.

Like, let's go into basic weapon physics, here. Once you commit to a swing, especially with such an unwieldy weapon like Gorechild--if you halt the momentum in order to redirect for another blow, the axe will stay still long enough for Superman to be able to slap his hands on either side of it and grab hold of it with his strength/aura.

Like, I really don't see a physical exchange happening between these two where Kharn ever makes a hit with Gorechild before Supes just grabs it and throws it into orbit, pressing Kharn into H2H.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

He literally needs only a small cut with a dura negging blade.

Combat skill has everything to do with correct positioning and attacking to not leave yourself open while delivering damage, is one of the most basic things rather. If Kharn was so disastrously dumb as to commit to a swing that could be easily evaded by comparable people, he wouldn't be alive.

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

Read my edit. This is coming from some personal, hands-on, real-life experience with medieval weaponry. There are ways to follow-through a strike, but when your weapon is also a giant target by itself, taking control of that weapon becomes a lot easier, especially when you have superior strength. And Kharn needs more than a small cut with Supes, who resists soul and deathhax.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Your edit changes nothing. If it was that easy, again, Kharn would have been dead or defeated long ago. Like when he was a space marine without Gorechild, and was still only beat by the primarchs or the best duelist in the story of the space marines.

Almost half a million space marines, at worst, trained for battle and hyper enhanced, with many physically comparable to him, and none of them could have pulled off something that is literally one of the basics of combat even in real life (punishing or abusing an overextended hit or bad positioning). It ain't happening.

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

Let's take a moment and look at Gorechild:


From what I can tell, Gorechild's only cutting edge is the serated chainsaw blade on the front, and the edge on the armor-piercing spike on the back.

In a speed-equalized scenario, when Kharn swings this weapon around--and this is from personal experience with two-handed weaponry--stopping its momentum to redirect it before your opponent adjusts accordingly is next to impossible, unless your opponent is also swinging around a large weapon.

Superman is not swinging around a large weapon. Compared to Kharn, he's a small target--and he has a physical strength advantage. All Supes has to do is catch Gorechild on a spot where it doesn't have a cutting edge, which appears to be quite a bit of Gorechild's surface area--then Gorechild is in orbit, and there's nothing Kharn can do to stop it or retrieve it. Superman has prioritized disarming armed opponents in the past, so I don't see why he wouldn't here.

I'd also like to note that half a million space marines can't fly, aren't physically superior to Kharn, and don't match his speed exactly.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Superman does not resist Gorechilds soul hax.

Orc why are you applying real life limitiations on what Kharn can do with a weapon when hes millions of times stronger then every human, the way he could handle Gorechild is likely complitly impossible for a human and a similarly sized axe but thats because hes more then any IRL human ever and is FAR stronger.

"In a speed-equalized scenario, when Kharn swings this weapon around--and this is from personal experience with two-handed weaponry--stopping its momentum to redirect it before your opponent adjusts accordingly is next to impossible, unless your opponent is also swinging around a large weapon."

This should not be applied to either of these characters as their strength is enough that they can easily redirect as they choose unless the weapon is STUPIDLY heavy, also Kharn doesnt use Gorechild as a two handed weapon, he almost always uses it as a one handed weapon.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Well, the problem is he's also applying that same strength to give it that kind of momentum in the first place, so... eithher way you effectively have to overpower yourself in an awkward way on the spot to adjust for your opponent.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Leaning towards Kh─ürn at the moment.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Honestly, I'll vote Supes. Orc seems to make sense to me.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Yeah, Supes FRA.

 

[LordUrien935]

I'm also voting Superman for A Stone Orc's reasons

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

What Wright said. If he's propelling it with that kind of strength, then he can't easily nor quickly redirect the weapon in time to adjust for Superman's position, as it isn't just reversing the momentum of his weapon, he has to apply enough force to match and overpower the swing he just made in order to redirect it. Basic physics, applies to everyone outside of people whose basic movement involves warping spacetime. Not to mention, again, Gorechild is ******* huge compared to Superman, and only a minimal amount of Gorechild's surface area is a durability-negating edge. Dodging it and getting within Gorechild's reach, and then disarming Kharn, is not only possible, it's the most likely way Supes will approach Kharn from the get-go.

And, yes, Supes will absolutely resist Gorechild's soul/death hax. He has the resistance, it's on his profile.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Well, the problem is he's also applying that same strength to give it that kind of momentum in the first place, so... eithher way you effectively have to overpower yourself in an awkward way on the spot to adjust for your opponent.

Yes and Kharn has more then enough strength to do so, and this is assuming Supes does this perfectly cause if he ***** up he dies.

This is also assuming Kharn doesnt move said Axe in an effort to avoid Supes grabbing it, and the whole "Then Supes puts him in a head lock" or something like that isnt a good idea cause then Supes is taking his arms away from Kharn who could then swing the Axe at Supes whos hands are preoccuipied.

Plus even if Kharn loses the Axe that still doesnt mean the match is over.

 

[PsychoWarper]

And, yes, Supes will absolutely resist Gorechild's soul/death hax. He has the resistance, it's on his profile.

Resistence doesnt mean immunity to so just cause Supes has it on his profile that doesnt mean all Soul Hax is out the window, Gorechilds Soul Hax is more then likely 1-B.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

He's strong enough to overpower.. Himself? What?

It's a double handed ax with a small head. He's not gonna hit someone who has him in a head lock with that thing.

 

[LordUrien935]

Oh man, the amount of times where Superman had to get something exactly right or else everything dies... there's too many instances to list. Long story short: he isn't messing up.

And I'm pretty sure Kharn's only win-con is with Gorechild. What else does he have besides his stone wall durability? His AP is far less than Superman and if he loses Gorechild, it's GG and after Superman sees that his punches do nothing and that Kharn is causing indiscriminate carnage, and the fact that the axe is gone, Superman grabs Kharn and tosses him into space.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

This is also assuming that Kharn doesn't know how to move to recover if he misses or get himself back into position for another strike or to properly respond. Kharn has 10,000+ years of swing this thing, I'm sure he's missed before.

Not trying to talk down to anyone, but you mean to tell me that Superman is going to easily get an opening to that axe from one of the most superlative warriors in 40K, who outclasses Superman is skill and combat experience several times over?

 

[PsychoWarper]

He's strong enough to overpower.. Himself? What?

Yes... he is, unless he decides to swing the axe with his absolute full strength every single swing then he should be able to over power his own swing but I guess that point is valid but that doesnt mean Kharn doesnt know how to adjust to counter something like that.

Hes fought oppenents far stronger and faster then himself before.

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

Considering the size of Gorechild and Kharn compared to Superman, basic weapon physics that absolutely applies to Kharn because he doesn't outright warp 3 dimensional space to move and speed is equalized, the fact that Kharn can't fly, Superman's track record of disarming opponents and doing things at just the perfect moment to stop untold chaos and devastation from being unleashed on the surrounding countryside, how easy it really would be for someone who can fly to position himself inside of Gorechild's effective radius (Kharn can't swing Gorechild for a proper hit if Supes is inside the reach of the axe)...I honestly see Superman takibg this 6/10 times, high difficulty.

 

[PsychoWarper]

This does make me wonder how strong those chains are cause in that mess of chains one is attached to Gorechild and bound to either Kharns arm or his armor depending on the pic its one of the two.

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

That seems to largely depend upon the artist/model.

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

In the picture I posted for instance, the chains do not appear to be attached to the axe at all

 

[PsychoWarper]

Well when Kharn got GC it was described that chains where attached between the axe and Kharn so that is canon iirc but where the chain where attached to Kharn seems to depend on the artist.

 

[Crabwhale]

Art is irrelevant in this instance. Kharn's axe is constantly chained to his arm. It's a habit most World Eaters picked up from the gladiatorial fighting pits they often frequented against other Space Marines.

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

If the chain isn't anything special by itself, though, it'd just break when Supes yanks it. Stellar LS would snap it like a twig.