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Super Mario Series Revision (Well, more of downgrade)

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For the MP9 feat the KE of the planets can def be calculated. Some look like gas planets because of the lines on the planets and no clear rocky surface like the other ones so it may even just be large planet baseline but the KE can def be calculated, which I expect to get LP or Dwarf Star results. Only way to get lower than Dwarf Star is if we assume Mercury size for whatever reason, but these planets clearly can have atmospheres so pretty sure it's gonna get Dwarf Star results.
 
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The_real_cal_howard said:
Real black holes are black holes. It’s not made from powers, magic, tech, etc. It’s a collapsed star in space. End of story. We don’t do this song and dance for lightning or light, or even black holes. If it comes from an irrefutably legitimate source, then it’s happily accepted. But y’all wanna be contentious so do whatever.
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We do do the song and dance if the black holes have unrealistic behavior, yes. Also "tanking" them, again, isn't really a dura feat.
 
Also, in Bowser's Station you can see what looks like two galaxies from thr stage that have had the Mini Stars sucked from them. Again, I feel universal distance isn't illogical given they've been sucked across multiple galaxy's distances already. The farthest observable star without hi-tech shit isn't even multiple galaxies away, so assuming only the observable stars because they only mention the night sky isn't really a good counter. Bowser was gonna send his troops all over outer space when hearing Mario made it to space.

So regardless this is also still a supporting speed feat, because we can see in the game that Mini Stars have been snatched from multiple galaxies. The speeds would still be in the billions-trillions and support his current rating as they quickly filled an empty outer space back up with glittering lights, which, also, should be a decent luminosity calc for the Mini Stars. They don't look it but clearly they can enter deep space and give a shine equal to that of actual stars, perhaps even greater. I think that can be calculated at least.
 
Armorchompy said:
We do do the song and dance if the black holes have unrealistic behavior, yes. Also "tanking" them, again, isn't really a dura feat.
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No we don’t. In the same way we don’t discredit ctg lightning if it’s brown or literal sunlight because it swiggles. If it’s natural, end of story.
I don’t want to get into the tanking song and dance, because that’s something I disagree with. I think you can tank a black hole if you don’t have your head up your ass with physics, as many fictions and sites like us use it as feats, but tanking isn’t even the issue.
 
How about instead of acting condescending you read the page? It says absolutely nothing about created black holes being different (it says "encountering" a black hole, which in fact implies finding one in space most of the time), and it explictily mentions that black holes cannot be used as a durability feat.
 
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The_real_cal_howard said:
No we don’t. In the same way we don’t discredit ctg lightning if it’s brown or literal sunlight because it swiggles. If it’s natural, end of story.
I don’t want to get into the tanking song and dance, because that’s something I disagree with. I think you can tank a black hole if you don’t have your head up your ass with physics, as many fictions and sites like us use it as feats, but tanking isn’t even the issue.
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I once saw a lightning feat rejected because it was purple, it was uhh... pretty dumb
 
Personally if it's a naturally forming black hole from collapsed stars, as Galacy has shown us is what they are by the first game's ending, then I don't see the issue if Mario throws out most other logic based around black holes like they do most things with logic and science involved because that's just how their universe works.
 
Armorchompy said:
You were literally posting memes here a while ago, you don't get to act like you're cool and objective.
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Oh no, a meme to diffuse the situation! And i ain't cool, nor am i objective. I just learned how not to get heated over a mario debate. I recommend it too. Calms the nerves
 
DaReaperMan said:
All right, now everyone is getting heated, I think we all need a 30 or so minute break to listed to Bob Ross

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I live in the uk so the video is unavailable. This has just made me even more heated!!!

But im neutral on the black hole stuff anyways. I take it that its currently a debate on whether mario should be high 4-C or varying/at least some tier below that up to 4-C?
 
RethPo said:
But im neutral on the black hole stuff anyways. I take it that its currently a debate on whether mario should be high 4-C or varying/at least some tier below that up to 4-C?
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More or less, yeah.

Though I believe some would rather Mario have no cosmic tiering and only remain at nuclear
 
RethPo said:
I live in the uk so the video is unavailable. This has just made me even more heated!!!

But im neutral on the black hole stuff anyways. I take it that its currently a debate on whether mario should be high 4-C or varying/at least some tier below that up to 4-C?
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If you're gonna get rid of all of Uni Mario then yeah 4-C at least is the best place to put Mario.
 
Oh mah goodness! They made a downgrade thread to downgrade Mario! Unacceptable!

Like yeah bro that's kinda what needs to be done to downgrade something, a downgrade thread. What were they supposed to do downgrade via comments?
 
Regarding black holes, if you guys are treating it like a real one, then according to the site's standards, it won't scale to durability (I don't agree with it, but hey, feel free to change the standards). Bowser surviving the black hole which ate planets would just be rated as resistance to black hole.
 
Yeah, that sounds like a future CRT potentially because that seems uh, strange. I've seen so many ******* black hole scaling things on this wiki but whatever.

It's likely Bowser made the black hole though, because the characters appear on that same platform you fight Bowser on after the game mechanic shit to determine the Super Star happens and the black hole is gone. It's odd to argue the platform moved at all so it's likely Bowser's "true power" was him growing giant and causing that black hole and it went away after his defeat. In the animation you can even see space turning red around him
 
So the moon canon feat, the stadium explosion feat, the castle punt feat, and amped Bowser punching a castle around the world along with multiple storm feats which all yield Tier 7-6 are all not viable to support rating Mario at Tier 7-6, but one time where a random boss twinkles in the background and leaves a star and black holes (Which don't grant durability, as multiple people have pointed out) are? I have to wonder at this point what your standards are for what is viable.
 
If the moon canon feat is from Donkey Kong country for the ubtillienth time: DK has a key specifically for his appearances in Donkey Kong Country, any feats from Donkey Kong Country apply only to those in Donkey Kong Country to begin with.
 
I'd also like to mention: all of those feats specifically aren't one tier, they are spread out, making literally any solution there able to be countered by the 4-C feat.

Once again Varies is probably the best solution here due to Mario literally not meant to be consistent and called an actor by Miyamoto himself.
 
Seol404 said:
So the moon canon feat, the stadium explosion feat, the castle punt feat, and amped Bowser punching a castle around the world along with multiple storm feats which all yield Tier 7-6 are all not viable to support rating Mario at Tier 7-6, but one time where a random boss twinkles in the background and leaves a star and black holes (Which don't grant durability, as multiple people have pointed out) are? I have to wonder at this point what your standards are for what is viable.
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Where can we prove these storm feats scale to physicals? Stadium explosion is still dubious. And lol at arguing amped Bowser when y'all were crying about characters scaling to any amped forms before.

The castle feat is actually a gag but one we accept so it's whatever
 
I also want ti adress in the OP real quick that if they argue for DK to be a supporting thing now then we can use the "actual size" thing to upgrade the Moon Punch to Tier 5 for similar reasons to updating the Dark Bowser feat because of Odyssey, right?
 
image0.jpg
The Planets in the MP9 Black Hole seem to be small anyway
 
Due to the inconsistency and lack of continuity we should just use the sizes shown in the specific games where the feats occurred to calculate them.

Then again as long as Wario Land/World and DKC are separate keys their feats can’t be used for Mario.

Actually, why is that a thing again? We don’t separate Mario & Luigi, Party, Sports, ect just because they’re spin-offs
 
Foxthefox1000 said:
Where can we prove these storm feats scale to physicals? Stadium explosion is still dubious. And lol at arguing amped Bowser when y'all were crying about characters scaling to any amped forms before.

The castle feat is actually a gag but one we accept so it's whatever
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The storm feats stack on top of the other feats, if it was just the storm feats alone I wouldn't be arguing for Tier 7-6, they do however help to support the ratings being at Tier 7. Amped Bowsers punch wouldn't scale to anyone but him and Castle Robot, but it's monstrously stronger than any of the Tier 7 feats, because he's amped.

The Raphael feat is also a gag and you're basing half your justification for 4-C on that.
 
Seol404 said:
The storm feats stack on top of the other feats, if it was just the storm feats alone I wouldn't be arguing for Tier 7-6, they do however help to support the ratings being at Tier 7.
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That doesn't sound like scaling to physicals. Also
DaReaperMan said:
I'd also like to mention: all of those feats specifically aren't one tier, they are spread out, making literally any solution there able to be countered by the 4-C feat and vice versa.

Once again Varies is probably the best solution here due to Mario literally not meant to be consistent and called an actor by Miyamoto himself.
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Storm scaling seems to be based on the same logic as the Tier 4 Power Star/Kamek scaling (“Universal Energy Systems/“Both powers stem from the same source”).

Maverick_Zero_X said:
Due to the series lack of continuity and Miyamoto stating Mario’s characteristics fluctuate to suit the plot of each game I personally wouldn’t be opposed to a Varies compromise if it comes down to that, but that’s definitely been rejected before.
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Variable Tier pitch #2

Q: How do you think Mario has become such a big phenomenon?

A (Miyamoto): “I think it was fortuitous that we didn’t put any restrictions on Mario as a character. Normally when you create a character and present him to the world, all the details get filled in: what’s his favorite color? what kind of food does he like to eat? But with Mario, aside from the fact that he’s about 24-25 years old, we didn’t define anything else. The reason why is that we wanted to be able to use Mario in later games, and that wouldn’t work so well if he had characteristics that interfered with a given game’s story. When we make a game we take care not to add incongruencies to that game’s world. With that caveat in mind, I’d like to keep using Mario in future games.”

All of Mario’s characteristics are intentionally inconsistent and malleable to suit the plot of each game.
 
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The planets aren't that small. It's literally perspective lmao when he gets sucked in he's as small as a dot while the planets are still bigger. Plus, they're in outer space they are clearly intended to be planets.

As for a varies tier, isn't the problem with that that Mario would have one of the biggest ranges for no reason?

I guess I don't really mind it too much
 
Foxthefox1000 said:
The planets aren't that small. It's literally perspective lmao when he gets sucked in he's as small as a dot while the planets are still bigger. Plus, they're in outer space they are clearly intended to be planets.
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image0.png

he’s pretty much the same size as the the planets moments before going in, you can clearly see the planet is in front of him here
 
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