STRONGEST One-Punch Man Discussion Thread!

[Maitreya12]

Tbf…yeah it does seem Garou has a weakness to piercing damage…

Even when he labeled himself as a dragon level threat, he was still able to be completely skewered by royal ripper. Keep in mind RR’s slashes couldn’t even make a dent on BASE bug god, a demon level threat. Yet it was completely able to go right through Garou, despite him being able to tank and survive attacks from Dragon level threats that totally annihilate other demon level monsters.

So it seems the argument that Garou is weak to piercing attacks does have merit to it. Or at least a solid basis in the manga. Dude is only human after all.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Not talking about his spear. His body alone is stronger than most of these people through scaling.

As for his spear scaling to Garou, I'm neutral on that, but I just disagree with everyone else except for maybe Chain'n'toad since it's implied he did crack some bones.

The death Gatling squad being 9-B and 9-A always ticked me off a bit since the gap between high 7-C and 9-B is astronomical, to the point where they shouldn’t even be able to make a weakened Garou move an inch with their strongest attacks, yet you have glasses being able to stagger him and fend him off with a punch, chain n toad damaging him, him being damaged by their arrows and guns, and getting damaged by the spear. This is the same Garou that still has the strength to dodge attacks from genos despite losing stamina from the fight against death Gatling’s team.

 

[ByAsura]

For the most part, they aren't the same. He used Bang's breathing technique and the poison stopped affecting him, allowing him to totally dominate all those heroes.

That's not to say his durability increases, though. I'm just being pernickety.

 

[Epiccheev]

Garou has the same weakness as Baki characters where his skin can still get pierced by stuff like darts and shotgun fire, but it's hard to put him down with just that.

 

[Recon1511]

The death Gatling squad being 9-B and 9-A always ticked me off a bit since the gap between high 7-C and 9-B is astronomical, to the point where they shouldn’t even be able to make a weakened Garou move an inch with their strongest attacks, yet you have glasses being able to stagger him and fend him off with a punch, chain n toad damaging him, him being damaged by their arrows and guns, and getting damaged by the spear. This is the same Garou that still has the strength to dodge attacks from genos despite losing stamina from the fight against death Gatling’s team.

The only one that deserves to scale there is Glasses and even then it's a wacky justification since he gets absolutely bodied by Garou

 

[Bernkastelll]

wait so, what is the default assumption? the default assumption is "the character is unharmed" or "the character can be hurt"?

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Tbf…yeah it does seem Garou has a weakness to piercing damage…

Even when he labeled himself as a dragon level threat, he was still able to be completely skewered by royal ripper. Keep in mind RR’s slashes couldn’t even make a dent on BASE bug god, a demon level threat. Yet it was completely able to go right through Garou, despite him being able to tank and survive attacks from Dragon level threats that totally annihilate other demon level monsters.

So it seems the argument that Garou is weak to piercing attacks does have merit to it. Or at least a solid basis in the manga. Dude is only human after all.

Timeline inconsistencies
half monster Garou was the one that declared himself dragon level, not human Garou
he also proceeded to get his ass handed to him by Rover to humble him for saying that, so there’s that too.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

So would Garou just get folded by Snipe speed equalized?

 

[Qawsedf234]

wait so, what is the default assumption?

The default assumption is that a character's durability will behave as it would IRL. So no gun could ever harm Saitama for example. Because at 4-A durability no projectile would have enough pressure to damage him. But if a weaker character (let's say 10x or something) were to use a sword, the sword would allow them to damage Saitama because of the concentrated attack.

The exception is if there's a notable amount of evidence that a piercing attack can harm a character, then we don't scale their durability to sharp objects.

 

[Damage3245]

wait so, what is the default assumption? the default assumption is "the character is unharmed" or "the character can be hurt"?

The default assumption should be that a character could possibly be harmed by weaker attacks, if they're concentrated into a finer area - but the threshold for this becomes more untenable the higher tier a character becomes, and depends on the weapon of choice, the opposing character, etc.

If a character has feats of bullets bouncing off their skin harmlessly, that's great and that helps raise the threshold.

If the character is shown being nicked by a guy wielding a machete, that's not so great and that lowers the threshold.

And so on. There is no absolute rule when it comes to this because how fiction depicts it can vary a lot.

 

[Qawsedf234]

So would Garou just get folded by Snipe?

Nah, to fast and skilled. He'd just bounce the projectiles into a wall or something.

 

[Recon1511]

So would Garou just get folded by Snipe?

He should be able to deflect his bullets with WSRF just like he did against Golden Ball

 

[ByAsura]

I've made a thread to downgrade Garou's speed.

 

[Maitreya12]

Timeline inconsistencies
half monster Garou was the one that declared himself dragon level, not human Garou
he also proceeded to get his ass handed to him by Rover to humble him for saying that, so there’s that too.

…,what?

Half monster Garou was the one who got skewered by Royal Ripper. He quite literally declared himself a dragon level threat actually the minute he broke Tareo free from RR’s grasp.

Garou still straight up tanked multiple bombardments of Rover’s attacks while just a single blast annihilated two other demon level threats.

Should we scale Royal Ripper to Rover just cause he could skewer Garou? The same Royal Ripper that couldn’t even make a dent on base bug god’s body? It makes no sense.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

…,what?

Half monster Garou was the one who got skewered by Royal Ripper. He quite literally declared himself a dragon level threat actually the minute he broke Tareo free from RR’s grasp.

Garou still straight up tanked multiple bombardments of Rover’s attacks while just a single blast annihilated two other demon level threats.

Should we scale Royal Ripper to Rover just cause he could skewer Garou? The same Royal Ripper that couldn’t even make a dent on base bug god’s body? It makes no sense.

He evolved after fighting royal ripper, and was still clearly heavily damaged by rover despite that
so just no

 

[Maitreya12]

He evolved after fighting royal ripper, and was still clearly heavily damaged by rover despite that
so just no

He literally declared himself a dragon level threat right after fighting RR. So he didn’t “evolve” then. Like what point in time are you claiming Garou evolved.

 

[TheRustyOne]

One more question from me. Important for a future verse I'm trying to work on.

If a character is shown to be bullet proof. Example: Character A walks through a barrage of bullets fired from multiple guns as if they don't exist.

These weren't pistols either, they're high caliber weapons used by the military. Kind of like this scene from Invincible.

But are stabbed/sliced by Character B's blade, and not because they stabbed the eyes or something. Does Character B's blade scales to Character A's durability?

Note: Not suggesting that Character B's physical strength scales to Character A's durability, just the sharpness of their weapon. Or is that not how it works?

 

[Qawsedf234]

But are stabbed/sliced by Character B's blade, and not because they stabbed the eyes or something. Does Character B's blade scales to Character A's durability?

The point I was making is that Garou has never shown evidence that he can take a sharp attack and not get cut. Then showed every instance of him interacting with a sharp attack from a notably weaker person and getting hurt in some fashion.

If the character is shown to withstand/take piercing damage and not get injured, and then be hurt by a weapon from another character, then it means that the character isn't specially vulnerable to sharp things.

In that case, the character would physically downscale though. Since swords > fists.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

let me get this straight, we by default assume that characters don't have an extreme weakness to being pierced
and at the same time, the burden of proof is on me to prove that garou isn't extremely weak to getting pierced
...absolutely bullshit

 

[ByAsura]

I think he means the burden of proof is now on you since he's provided evidence that you should address, or something like that.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I think he means the burden of proof is now on you since he's provided evidence that you should address, or something like that.

the entirety of the proof is "check out all the times garou has been pierced"
it's not proof. We would just default to assuming all of these situations are scaling to him unless actual proof is shown
a pretty blatant violation of the claim that bulletproof is the default assumption

 

[Qawsedf234]

let me get this straight, we by default assume that characters don't have an extreme weakness to being pierced
and at the same time, the burden of proof is on me to prove that garou isn't extremely weak to getting pierced
...absolutely bullshit

No, Asura answered this

I think he means the burden of proof is now on you since he's provided evidence that you should address, or something like that.

But to explain it step by step

• We default to assume a character isn't oddly weak to piercing damage
• I made the claim Garou was
• You said to give proof
• I gave multiple interactions where Garou was harmed by people by piercing attacks
• The ball is now in your court to counter my claims or provide counter evidence that Garou isn't oddly weak to piercing damage

The issue being, Garou has zero feats of being resistant to piercing damage. So there's nothing you could provide to counter my claims.

it's not proof.

That's literally proof. He's harmed by characters hundreds of thousands of times weaker than he is when they use sharp objects.

 

[Damage3245]

the entirety of the proof is "check out all the times garou has been pierced"
it's not proof. We would just default to assuming all of these situations are scaling to him unless actual proof is shown
a pretty blatant violation of the claim that bulletproof is the default assumption

Why is that the default for you?

 

[Damage3245]

That's literally proof. He's harmed by characters hundreds of thousands of times weaker than he is when they use sharp objects.

Nooo, don't you get it Qaws? Those characters are suddenly capable of outputting thousands of times more force when they use a sharp object in their hands... duh....

 

[ZillertheBucko]

That's literally proof. He's harmed by characters literally hundreds of thousands of times weaker than he is.

and where is your evidence that they are hundreds of thousands of times weaker than them? I mean, they did hurt him. You can't just be like "well they're weaker than him" and then when I say they aren't that much weaker because they damaged him you reply with "well that time doesn't count"
what you need is actual evidence that them hurting him shouldn't be possible due to contradictory scaling. This proof of yours is an insane amount of bullshit, all you're doing is bringing up times he got hurt by piercing. Cool, now where's your evidence that it shouldn't be possible?
This is a complete joke. You claim we default to assuming that characters must have piercing AP to hurt someone on that level, but when someone actually DOES hit garou with piercing, it's automatically "well he got pierced so he MUST be extremely weak to piercing, even if we are meant to be assuming otherwise.

Why is that the default for you?

see below

The default assumption is that a character's durability will behave as it would IRL.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Nooo, don't you get it Qaws? Those characters are suddenly capable of outputting thousands of times more force when they use a sharp object in their hands... duh....

Atomic Samurai.

 

[Damage3245]

and where is your evidence that they are hundreds of thousands of times weaker than them? I mean, they did hurt him. You can't just be like "well they're weaker than him" and then when I say they aren't that much weaker because they damaged him you reply with "well that time doesn't count"
what you need is actual evidence that them hurting him shouldn't be possible due to contradictory scaling. This proof of yours is an insane amount of bullshit, all you're doing is bringing up times he got hurt by piercing. Cool, now where's your evidence that it shouldn't be possible?
This is a complete joke. You claim we default to assuming that characters must have piercing AP to hurt someone on that level, but when someone actually DOES hit garou with piercing, it's automatically "well he got pierced so he MUST be extremely weak to piercing, even if we are meant to be assuming otherwise.

Ziller....

Garou makes it clear that if the group attacking him had brought even one S-Class hero (i.e., Genos) that they would have won over him... But instead you're arguing that all of these A-Class and B-Class heroes who failed to take on Garou are all on the same level as Genos who Garou scales to?

Your arguments just completely contradict the narrative.

 

[Epiccheev]

Those characters are suddenly capable of outputting thousands of times more force when they use a sharp object in their hands

Flashy Flash if he had his sword/s

 

[Qawsedf234]

and where is your evidence that they are hundreds of thousands of times weaker than them?

That they're base AP is hundreds of thousands of times weaker than Garou's base AP.

Cool, now where's your evidence that it shouldn't be possible?

The only way it would be possible is if they were in the same physical range as Garou, which isn't backed by anything. Since that would mean that B-Class heroes are as strong as Genos or that Stinger can take blows from someone who would demolish DSK.

You claim we default to assuming that characters must have piercing AP to hurt someone on that level, but when someone actually DOES hit garou with piercing, it's automatically "well he got pierced so he MUST be extremely weak to piercing, even if we are meant to be assuming otherwise.

I don't have any idea how you got there. If Garou didn't consistently get hurt by piercing weapons I wouldn't mind Golden Ball's weapons scaling to him (even if it would be a bit dumb). But he is consistently harmed by piercing weapons when we know that the universe will respect our rules with other characters, like Bug God, Darkshine, Saitama or Golden Sperm.

The fact that Garou is harmed by those attacks when they aren't, means that he's inconsistent with the verse itself.

Your arguments just completely contradict the narrative.

Exactly.

You need to take off the scaling blinders Ziller. Golden Ball just doesn't scale to Garou's durability.

You have also again failed to post any proof that Garou can take a sharp attack without being damaged. This is like the fourth or fifth time I've asked you for evidence.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Nooo, don't you get it Qaws? Those characters are suddenly capable of outputting thousands of times more force when they use a sharp object in their hands... duh....

I think that kind of sarcastic response is a bit unnecessary, even if you believe someone's arguments/reasonings to be wrong. That's just mocking them.

I don't agree with them either. As the reasoning being used is rather weak in my opinion. But that kind of response is a little on the harsh side.

I feel bad saying this, because any attempt I make at peace when I see possible harsh words usually gets me mocked afterward. But I think that way of speaking to someone just makes them less likely to listen. I don't think I'm being a whiny baby or whatever, I just want to help out and keep things civil.

Call me a hypocrite or whatever, I know I don't always keep my cool. But I do seriously want to be better.

Apologies if this came off weird, I just don't understand this stuff. I hope I wasn't being disrespectful.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Ziller....

Garou makes it clear that if the group attacking him had brought even one S-Class hero (i.e., Genos) that they would have won over him... But instead you're arguing that all of these A-Class and B-Class heroes who failed to take on Garou are all on the same level as Genos who Garou scales to?

Your arguments just completely contradict the narrative.

This is just ridiculous. They can have low 7-B piercing damage, they clearly failed because they don't have the durability, speed, skill, or comparable stamina to back it up
you'd have realized that this makes no sense as a response to what I said had you thought about it for a few seconds

That they're base AP is hundreds of thousands of times weaker than Garou's base AP.

well in the case of guns that doesn't matter since they're not using their own strength for it, but in the case of stinger we literally ALREADY HAVE HIM GOING FROM 8-B TO HIGH 7-C WITH A WEAPON
I can't believe you're making this argument given what's already accepted on the profiles

The only way it would be possible is if they were in the same physical range as Garou, which isn't backed by anything. Since that would mean that B-Class heroes are as strong as Genos or that Stinger can take blows from someone who would demolish DSK.

stinger is not in the high 7-C physical range. Not to mention, garou got his shit kicked in by genos anyways and was forced to be absolutely evasive the entire time, even faking being hurt by an attack as a trap to lure him into being blasted

I don't have any idea how you got there. If Garou didn't consistently get hurt by piercing weapons I wouldn't mind Golden Ball's weapons scaling to him (even if it would be a bit dumb). But he is consistently harmed by piercing weapons when we know that the universe will respect our rules with other characters, like Bug God, Darkshine, Saitama or Golden Sperm.

The fact that Garou is harmed by those attacks when they aren't, means that he's inconsistent with the verse itself.

And the evidence justifying why those attacks shouldn't be able to harm him is just nonexistent
give me a scaling chain. Give me anything more than this completely null bs about him being "consistently damaged by piercing, so clearly he must have an extreme weakness specifically to piercing attacs

You have also again failed to post any proof that Garou can take a sharp attack without being damaged. This is like the fourth or fifth time I've asked you for evidence.

This will be the 4th or 5th time that I tell you that it's a stupid request since the burden of proof is on you, and you haven't produced anything beyond some characters being able to harm garou.

 

[Cryo123]

KLOL evaluated and rejected it

Given KLOL's response, I don't think he really understood the calc at all. The only real point he made is it would scale to attack speed only.

 

[Cryo123]

That's literally proof. He's harmed by characters hundreds of thousands of times weaker than he is when they use sharp objects.

Maybe that's because they're not hundreds of thousands of times weaker than him? You have to make an odd assumption in order to come to that conclusion, instead of the more realistic conclusion that those characters simply downscale.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I can't believe you're making this argument given what's already accepted on the profiles

In both cases Stinger and his weapon are still harming someone far stronger than he is, which own its own might mean something if Garou wasn't harmed by every piercing attack that hit him.

stinger is not in the high 7-C physical range.

Which is even worse, since he's 8-B and with a naturally grown bamboo spear he can easily cut Garou

give me a scaling chain

???

Garou > Tanktop Master = Genos > Early Genos who can demolish a mountain

None of them remotely come close to this and they're one shot by people Genos one shots.

Give me anything more than this completely null bs about him being "consistently damaged by piercing, so clearly he must have an extreme weakness specifically to piercing attacs

Give you more evidence than multiple pieces of evidence?

At this point you're just rejecting what actually happened in the story for the sake of an upgrade proposal. That's just not how it works.

burden of proof is on you, and you haven't produced anything beyond some characters being able to harm garou.

The burden of proof was on me and provided the proof.

It is now on you to provide counter-evidence. But you can't because it doesn't exist. So instead of saying that you can't do it, you keep shifting the subject.

Garou has no showings of taking a slashing attack and not being harmed. It was decided that he falls into the same category as people like Wonder Woman, so we don't scale people to being able to cut him. It's that simple and we do that with plenty of profiles.

Maybe that's because they're not hundreds of thousands of times weaker than him? You have to make an odd assumption in order to come to that conclusion, instead of the more realistic conclusion that those characters simply downscale.

These characters are one shot by people weaker than Garou. They can't downscale when they're a bunch of Class Bs and low As.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Given KLOL's response, I don't think he really understood the calc at all. The only real point he made is it would scale to attack speed only.

or the calc was just wrong

 

[Cryo123]

These characters are one shot by people weaker than Garou. They can't downscale when they're a bunch of Class Bs and low As.

Why not? Irl, professional fighters can get cut up by an average dude with a sword, even if they could 1 shot them. That's the whole point of a weapon, it can make up AP and skill differences.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Why not?

Because they're one consistently defeated by Demon Level threats in one attack, struggle fighting Tiger level threats for some of them and some of the attacks Garou is hit by (like the arrows or pistols) wouldn't scale to any higher figures.

Irl, professional fighters can get cut up by an average dude with a sword, even if they could 1 shot them

This isn't an average person vs a MMA fighter. This is an average person trying to damage an Abrams tank with a sword but when they land a hit it somehow cuts the tank.

If it was just one time, they'd just upscale. But it's not one time, it's every time.

 

[Cryo123]

or it was just wrong

Take that up with the physicists. It's the scientifically approved formula that explains momentum at relativistic speeds and is taught at universities.

 

[Maitreya12]

The current discussion rn:

Qaws: Makes a claim (Garou is weak to piercing damage)

Ziller: Support that claim.

Qaws: Supports claim (cites instances of Garou being weaker to piercing damage)

Qaws: Provide counter evidence.

Ziller:…..Support your claim…

—Literally the last hour

 

[Cryo123]

Because they're one consistently defeated by Demon Level threats in one attack, struggle fighting Tiger level threats

Not fully true. Spring Mustachio's Tomboy was able to pierce and would have killed Kombu infinity (a pretty powerful Tiger level) had he not dodged. He was also capable of injuring BS and blocking attacks from HE.

Stinger was injured by tigers, but he was more than capable of 1 shotting them when he got serious. The simple explanation is his AP is higher than his dura. While he was 1 shot by DSK, that was after his injuries, and he still survived. In fact, even the lowest rated A class was able to take a hit from the empowered DSK without dying.

Lightning Max was able to 1 shot a demon level threat.

In fact, all A class, while really hurt, could survive DSK's punches, which could explain why piercing weapons could make up such a gap.

Edit: And the lowest rated A class could also 1 shot a demon.