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STRONGEST One-Punch Man Discussion Thread!

ByAsura said:
Я думаю, вы не видели, что я сказал в начале предыдущей страницы.

Нет.
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Why? The orb was destroyed by the first hit, and the remaining cuts are just a consequence of the AS style. Literally nothing tells us that he needs more than 1 hit to neutralize the orbs.

Moreover, given that the Homeless can block enemy attacks with spheres, such as Zombieman's bullets, it already makes it clear that slicing the sphere is an AP feat.
 
NikHelton said:
Why? The orb was destroyed by the first hit, and the remaining cuts are just a consequence of the AS style. Literally nothing tells us that he needs more than 1 hit to neutralize the orbs.
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What 'literally nothing' actually tells us is that he only needed a single hit to make the orb explode. It's only shown to explode after 35 hits. Although his enemies are cut with a single strike, it's not like they're reduced to a shower of blood, which is a far superior action overall to simply cutting an enemy in half.
NikHelton said:
Moreover, given that the Homeless can block enemy attacks with spheres, such as Zombieman's bullets, it already makes it clear that slicing the sphere is an AP feat.
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I'm not arguing that it isn't an AP feat, otherwise he wouldn't be scaled at all, more that nothing really tells us the cutting the orb is a comparable move to overpowering all the energy it produces while exploding. Energy density is a thing.
 
ByAsura said:
What 'literally nothing' actually tells us is that he only needed a single hit to make the orb explode. It's only shown to explode after 35 hits. Although his enemies are cut with a single strike, it's not like they're reduced to a shower of blood, which is a far superior action overall to simply cutting an enemy in half.

I'm not arguing that it isn't an AP feat, otherwise he wouldn't be scaled at all, more that nothing really tells us the cutting the orb is a comparable move to overpowering all the energy it produces while exploding. Energy density is a thing.
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Since, NikHelton brought this up again. I kind of still disagree with you Asura. I agree that it exploded after 35 slashes but that is just the Atomic Slash's way of doing things. It literally means an overkill. Atomic Samurai has been shown multiple times to use thousands of cuts to annihilate his enemies. That doesn't mean that it would have taken a thousand cuts to negate the attack. His ability to cut up the orb multiple times with any apparent difficulty already shows that he scales far above just 1/35th of that energy.

And you have no reason to assume that it isn't equatable. Just cause it is an energy orb, doesn't mean you can directly apply the logic of energy density as we have seen multiple times that Homeless Emperor can manipulate the type of orb he is using. Sometimes it is an exploding orb, other times it acts as a vaporizing attack. For all we know, it might not be an exploding type but instead the kind of solid vaporizing orb that he launched at Child Emperor. Earlier, I had to close that CRT cause the discussion wasn't going anywhere, but I still feel like I could convince you.
 
King said:
Since, NikHelton brought this up again. I kind of still disagree with you Asura. I agree that it exploded after 35 slashes but that is just the Atomic Slash's way of doing things. It literally means an overkill. Atomic Samurai has been shown multiple times to use thousands of cuts to annihilate his enemies. That doesn't mean that it would have taken a thousand cuts to negate the attack. His ability to cut up the orb multiple times with any apparent difficulty already shows that he scales far above just 1/35th of that energy.
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It takes all of his cuts normally to make people explode into gore rather than just bisecting them, which takes more energy overall. I don’t see why it’s so unreasonable to assume that he simply cut through the orb until it exploded, which we see happen in the panel.

He and GS do scale above 1/35th already, what your logic absolutely does not, under any conditions, show is that he somehow scales to the full energy of an orb he didn’t destroy with one attack.
King said:
And you have no reason to assume that it isn't equatable.
Click to expand...
Because it isn’t shown to be, and it takes 35 blows in the first place for it to even explode.
King said:
Just cause it is an energy orb, doesn't mean you can directly apply the logic of energy density as we have seen multiple times that Homeless Emperor can manipulate the type of orb he is using.
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Why would him being able to manipulate his orbs mean he’s shifting all of its durability to a single place? We’ve never seen that facet of his powers, and it isn’t consistent with the explosion being omnidirectional.
King said:
Sometimes it is an exploding orb, other times it acts as a vaporizing attack.
Click to expand...
When? Isn’t it typically both unless he’s using them to block far, far inferior projectiles?
King said:
For all we know, it might not be an exploding type but instead the kind of solid vaporizing orb that he launched at Child Emperor.
Click to expand...
It exploded against AS and Child Empeor, so no. It is basically always an explosion.
King said:
Earlier, I had to close that CRT cause the discussion wasn't going anywhere, but I still feel like I could convince you.
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It’s probably not that hard. Just get stronger points.
 
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The fact that Homeless was in shock at the moment of hitting the sphere already hints that AS overcame the power of this.
If AS needed many hits to destroy the orb, he wouldn't be able to get through it easily and without damage at the time of the first hit. A lot of cuts are the result of his style.

Moreover, I re-read the chapters now and noticed that those remaining 34 cuts came from the center, which means that either AS scaled up to her physically, or suppressed all the energy with the first attack.
 
Or that he’s surprised he’s jumping into the sphere and attacking it directly, like Iaian and Sping. It’s not stated or shown that HE, Iaian and Spring Mustachio can sense power.

All he needs to be is some amount stronger than 1/35th. And his combined style makes the orb explode.

Why? Please explain your logic?
 
ByAsura said:
It takes all of his cuts normally to make people explode into gore rather than just bisecting them, which takes more energy overall. I don’t see why it’s so unreasonable to assume that he simply cut through the orb until it exploded, which we see happen in the panel.

He and GS do scale above 1/35th already, what your logic absolutely does not, under any conditions, show is that he somehow scales to the full energy of an orb he didn’t destroy with one attack.

Because it isn’t shown to be, and it takes 35 blows in the first place for it to even explode.

Why would him being able to manipulate his orbs mean he’s shifting all of its durability to a single place? We’ve never seen that facet of his powers, and it isn’t consistent with the explosion being omnidirectional.

When? Isn’t it typically both unless he’s using them to block far, far inferior projectiles?

It exploded against AS and Child Empeor, so no. It is basically always an explosion.

It’s probably not that hard. Just get stronger points.
Click to expand...
Ok, how about this. AS slashes it thirty-five times , the orb gets fragmented and flies off into a thousand pieces. How? Isn't that overkill just like the other cases of Atomic Slash? He didn't need to slash 35 times to make it explode, the orb would have exploded either way. Instead, he dispersed and slashed it into a multiple segments. He always cuts characters into multiple pieces, we don't use this logic those times so why the orb be the special case?

Another evidence or simple scaling. Swords men in Anime and Manga are scaled upon their ability to cut opponents of a certain durability right?
Like see it this way. Character A has High 7 A AP so his durability scales to that. Swordsman appears and cuts up character A. So wouldn't swordsman also scale to character A? In theory it would always take less energy to just cut up character A than completely explode him but we still scale swordsman to character A, don't we?

Ummm...the vaped crater definitely wasn't the work of an exploding orb but rather a focused attack.

my points are strong enough and I have faith and definitely enough logic to back it up as well. They don't need to be affirmed by just you to be correct.
 
King said:
Ok, how about this. AS slashes it thirty-five times , the orb gets fragmented and flies off into a thousand pieces. How?
Click to expand...
There’s not a thousand fragments, though. And those little particles could easily be from the explosion, since his orbs against Tats are the same colour.
King said:
Isn't that overkill just like the other cases of Atomic Slash?
Click to expand...
It’s an astronomically different case when the overkill is what causes the orb to explode fully. For the last time, when AS cuts something what happens? They’re split apart and then they explode to pieces? All of those pieces exploding apart objectively takes more energy than just the individual slices.
King said:
He didn't need to slash 35 times to make it explode, the orb would have exploded either way.
Click to expand...
That’s what happens, though. So I’m not taking your word for it.
King said:
Instead, he dispersed and slashed it into a multiple segments. He always cuts characters into multiple pieces, we don't use this logic those times so why the orb be the special case?
Click to expand...
Because it only disperses after 35, and we don’t have evidence that the durability of a section of the orb scales to its full energy.
King said:
Like see it this way. Character A has High 7 A AP so his durability scales to that. Swordsman appears and cuts up character A. So wouldn't swordsman also scale to character A? In theory it would always take less energy to just cut up character A than completely explode him but we still scale swordsman to character A, don't we?
Click to expand...
Because characters don’t scale to the energy needed to explode them in the first place. They scale to their ability to withstand attacks. What we don’t do is use that durability to calc-stack upwards for characters who obliterate them.

Edit: I should be clear, I’m not accusing you of calc stacking upwards.

Let’s put it this way. If a character smashes a concrete pillar with 35 blows, are they capable of destroying the pillar with 1?
King said:
Ummm...the vaped crater definitely wasn't the work of an exploding orb but rather a focused attack.
Click to expand...
We literally see an explosion.
King said:
my points are strong enough and I have faith and definitely enough logic to back it up as well. They don't need to be affirmed by just you to be correct.
Click to expand...
Your points are terrible. A biased evaluation is a biased evaluation.
 
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ByAsura said:
If a character smashes a concrete pillar with 35 blows, are they capable of destroying the pillar with 1?
Click to expand...
The character can be capable of dealing damage even if the pillar isn't destroyed, because, as you said, someone's durability isn't defined as the amount of energy it takes for them to explode. If HE didn't have his own feats, he would scale above Fuhrer Ugly because he was harming him with his spheres. He wasn't making FU explode, but he still would scale because of the damage delivered.

That said, it is impossible to know if AS dealt significant "damage" (I wonder if you can do that to energy) to the second orb with his initial slash.
 
ByAsura said:
There’s not a thousand fragments, though. And those little particles could easily be from the explosion, since his orbs against Tats are the same colour.

It’s an astronomically different case when the overkill is what causes the orb to explode fully. For the last time, when AS cuts something what happens? They’re split apart and then they explode to pieces? All of those pieces exploding apart objectively takes more energy than just the individual slices.

That’s what happens, though. So I’m not taking your word for it.

Because it only disperses after 35, and we don’t have evidence that the durability of a section of the orb scales to its full energy.

Because characters don’t scale to the energy needed to explode them in the first place. They scale to their ability to withstand attacks. What we don’t do is use that durability to calc-stack upwards for characters who obliterate them.

Let’s put it this way. If a character smashes a concrete pillar with 35 blows, are they capable of destroying the pillar with 1?

We literally see an explosion.

Your points are terrible. A biased evaluation is a biased evaluation.
Click to expand...
Rhino Wrestler, search up his images. . AS cut him and he exploded into multiple portions. That way AS downscales from Rhino Wrestler. The way you're using your logic, it would take exactly a hundred cuts to kill rhino wrestler.

Then Homeless' smaller orbs are also 7 A . AS took more slashes to cut up less number of orbs.

No, if I absolutely annihilate the pillar (which is far more than just breaking it) with 35 slashes, should I scale to it or not?

I am biased and you are justice incarnate.
 
King said:
Rhino Wrestler, search up his images. . AS cut him and he exploded into multiple portions. That way AS downscales from Rhino Wrestler. The way you're using your logic, it would take exactly a hundred cuts to kill rhino wrestler.
Click to expand...
That’s not my logic at all. Please read the point about someone exploding utterly not scaling to their actual durability.
King said:
Then Homeless' smaller orbs are also 7 A . AS took more slashes to cut up less number of orbs.
Click to expand...
AS took a single slash to burst those orbs, and they were individual orbs so they have no reason to scale.
King said:
No, if I absolutely annihilate the pillar (which is far more than just breaking it) with 35 slashes, should I scale to it or not?
Click to expand...
You should scale to the 1/35th of the value of annihilating it.

On the other hand, if the sword is cutting through something capable of taking Small Town level attacks, it should be Small Town level. But that’s not shown to the case with HE’s orb, where the entire energy is released with its explosion.
King said:
I am biased and you are justice incarnate.
Click to expand...
That is correct.

In all seriousness, I was just saying a self-evaluation isn’t objective.
ImposingTiger said:
The character can be capable of dealing damage even if the pillar isn't destroyed, because, as you said, someone's durability isn't defined as the amount of energy it takes for them to explode. If HE didn't have his own feats, he would scale above Fuhrer Ugly because he was harming him with his spheres. He wasn't making FU explode, but he still would scale because of the damage delivered.
Click to expand...
This would be an effective argument if we can confirm each slash area would be cutting through something as durable as the energy released by the entire orb.
 
Last edited:
ByAsura said:
That’s not my logic at all. Please read the point about someone exploding utterly not scaling to their actual durability.

AS took a single slash to burst those orbs, and they were individual orbs so they have no reason to scale.

You should scale to the value of annihilating it via 35 slashes.

That is correct.

In all seriousness, I was saying a self-evaluation isn’t objective.

This would be an effective argument if we can confirm each slash area would be cutting through something as durable as the energy released by the entire orb.
Click to expand...
Yes, their actual durability is far lower than the amount of power required to explode them. The orb's actual durability is lesser than the energy required to explode it completely.
So, it should stand like this: orb dura< energy req. to just cut it up into pieces<< energy req. to explode it<total yield
Literally nothing suggests that the orb's dura. is 35 times less than its AP. It is just an arbitrary division based on the number of slashes. Atomic should downscale but not be massively weaker like the case here.
 
ByAsura said:
At this point, it’s a good idea to make a CRT. I’m done with contesting this ‘logic’, so you’ll get it accepted if other people actually agree.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I proposed it already. But I have more imp. things to do like making OPM 7 A calcs that get rejected. (Don't worry we'll get there one day. )

Sure, if someone else will be kind enough to do it and give a proper summary of points for both sides so that we don't argue much.
 
King said:
Yes, their actual durability is far lower than the amount of power required to explode them. The orb's actual durability is lesser than the energy required to explode it completely.
So, it should stand like this: orb dura< energy req. to just cut it up into pieces<< energy req. to explode it<total yield
Literally nothing suggests that the orb's dura. is 35 times less than its AP. It is just an arbitrary division based on the number of slashes. Atomic should downscale but not be massively weaker like the case here.
Click to expand...
I really don’t see scaling how Atomic Samurai 1/35th lower via doing 35 slashes to make it explode is more arbitrary than claiming with no proof that the power needed to cut through the orb isn’t that far inferior to its total energy.

But whatever, to each his own.
 
King said:
Yeah, I proposed it already. But I have more imp. things to do like making OPM 7 A calcs that get rejected. (Don't worry we'll get there one day. )

Sure, if someone else will be kind enough to do it and give a proper summary of points for both sides so that we don't argue much.
Click to expand...
I can actually list multiple calcs that got rejected. First one was rover's AP. I got High 7 A results with that one. But people were not sure whether the earthquake happened throughout the city or not. Despite the fact that the main part of the MA is in the centre of the city and the Ghost Town (where Saitama Lives) is towards the eastern edge. So, if even Saitama can feel the shaking then it should be obvious that the earthquake happened throughout the city. But alas.

The next one was using one of Rover's orbs. I got 7 A. But people said that Rover's orbs do not vaporize despite the fact that they completely erased Super Mouse from existence. So, that got rejected too. I proposed another method and we ended up with Small City Level Rover.

Next one was using Orochi's KE. I used density of muscle or something for his arm's weight. I was new back then, so didn't know better and it got rejected due to calc stacking.

Another one was using Elder centipede's carapace strength. Bang and Bomb got High 7 A yet again. But got rejected as even AP has calc stacking issues I guess. AND NOBODY BOTHERS TO UPDATE THAT PAGE DESPITE THE FACT THAT IT MAY CONFUSE NEWCOMERS! I SPENT TWO HOURS ON THAT CALC AND IT GOT REJECTED CAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THAT! AAA!
 
King said:
I can actually list multiple calcs that got rejected. First one was rover's AP. I got High 7 A results with that one. But people were not sure whether the earthquake happened throughout the city or not. Despite the fact that the main part of the MA is in the centre of the city and the Ghost Town (where Saitama Lives) is towards the eastern edge. So, if even Saitama can feel the shaking then it should be obvious that the earthquake happened throughout the city. But alas.

The next one was using one of Rover's orbs. I got 7 A. But people said that Rover's orbs do not vaporize despite the fact that they completely erased Super Mouse from existence. So, that got rejected too. I proposed another method and we ended up with Small City Level Rover.

Next one was using Orochi's KE. I used density of muscle or something for his arm's weight. I was new back then, so didn't know better and it got rejected due to calc stacking.

Another one was using Elder centipede's carapace strength. Bang and Bomb got High 7 A yet again. But got rejected as even AP has calc stacking issues I guess. AND NOBODY BOTHERS TO UPDATE THAT PAGE DESPITE THE FACT THAT IT MAY CONFUSE NEWCOMERS! I SPENT TWO HOURS ON THAT CALC AND IT GOT REJECTED CAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THAT! AAA!
Click to expand...
BTW, I got one of my calcs accepted for MHA. And it downgrades the verse. I am scared of facing the opposition if I make a CRT.
 
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