- 16,080
- 9,325
- Thread starter
- #201
Take your time, I would prefer quality calcs over rushed ones.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Steven Universe and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Downgrade
- Thread starter Sir_Ovens
- Start date
- 7,357
- 2,067
Wasn’t Connie supposed to lose her instinctual reactions though.
Also her 9-B feat comes from a non canon comment and a discussion on the lower tiers has been going on. If that should be it’s own thread I can make one, but if you missed it the discussion isn’t that far back on this thread.
- 15,466
- 22,548
Yeeted the Diamond Trio to 6-C, I think that wraps up this matter until the High 6-B calc becomes a thing.
^I’ll make sure these are applied in the next thread.
Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E
He/Him- 3,579
- 2,105
- 22,381
- 18,589
We have Country level Diamonds.
I've asked for an eval.
Edit: I actually need to make some slight changes that'll slightly increase the results. But it's just a minor change.
Edit 2: The results have actually doubled.
I've asked for an eval.
Edit: I actually need to make some slight changes that'll slightly increase the results. But it's just a minor change.
Edit 2: The results have actually doubled.
Last edited:
Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E
He/Him- 3,579
- 2,105
Decent it seems... Well I had ideas regarding a certain character of the SU Verse and via these changes I am hearing, now my most concern is if they they are no longer 7-A... What tier are they?
Last edited:
- 2,831
- 6,517
Country level seems reasonable. I still don't think it came from homeworld though. I don't think there's enough to prove that it did.
As for scaling to Rose's shield I say no. Rose's shield has been broken by the likes of Spinel, Jasper, Bismuth, and a single stomp from Yellow was enough to break it. The shield blocked some, but not all of the attack.
So I will agree with 6-B Diamonds, but with the note that it's only with this one special attack. 6-B with Corrupting Light
As for scaling to Rose's shield I say no. Rose's shield has been broken by the likes of Spinel, Jasper, Bismuth, and a single stomp from Yellow was enough to break it. The shield blocked some, but not all of the attack.
So I will agree with 6-B Diamonds, but with the note that it's only with this one special attack. 6-B with Corrupting Light
- 22,381
- 18,589
It's not from Homeworld in the calculation, fortunately, just the moon.
That's Steven's Shield. Isn't it far inferior to Rose's?
I have disagree with it being this singular technique, just because we really don't have enough evidence that it's a special attack. It's not as if we've been told their powers in unison surpass a normal blast.
Edit: Should have clarified. Normal combined blast.
That's Steven's Shield. Isn't it far inferior to Rose's?
I have disagree with it being this singular technique, just because we really don't have enough evidence that it's a special attack. It's not as if we've been told their powers in unison surpass a normal blast.
Edit: Should have clarified. Normal combined blast.
Last edited:
- 15,466
- 22,548
Each Diamond scaling to 1/3 of the Corrupting Light should be fine. Not sure about who scales.
Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E
He/Him- 3,579
- 2,105
Nvm, checking more on it; I got my answer. That High 7-C although okay is not what I expected; like at the very least I thought they could have been a 7-B... Massive Oof...
Last edited:
- 16,080
- 9,325
- Thread starter
- #219
I feel like making the Diamonds 6-B defeats the point of their downgrade in the first place. We established that the corrupting light was a special attack, which is why their regular attack speed isn't MFTL. We can't accept 6-B without acknowledging MFTL, which is massive outlier.
- 22,381
- 18,589
And I strongly disagree with that logic. Part of your evidence here is even that nobody can undo the corruption, yet the Diamonds themselves can. Also, wiping away clouds isn't a special ability that bypasses inorganic durability.
Even then, the diamond's blasts have many special facets, such as puppetry, manipulation over Gems and their hard-light forms, electricity that blows up gems and emotional manipulation, so there's not necessarily anything unique to that singular property.
Here's a better one: their normal speed just doesn't scale to their blasts in general. The only one who's ever reacted is Steven, and even that was from a pretty big distance.
- 22,381
- 18,589
More like Pink Steven partially scales.
I don't think it really scales to Monster Steven, though, because A) he's huge, which tends to lower speed in most fiction, and B) he's almost completely mindless.
For reference, even Lapis was one-shot over something like a few hundred metres or a kilometre, so it should be PIS if the normal Gems ever do react.
I don't think it really scales to Monster Steven, though, because A) he's huge, which tends to lower speed in most fiction, and B) he's almost completely mindless.
For reference, even Lapis was one-shot over something like a few hundred metres or a kilometre, so it should be PIS if the normal Gems ever do react.
- 2,831
- 6,517
Steven's shield is the same as Rose's just like having her "gem", there's nothing to suggest Rose's shield was in anyway "superior". Regardless, it only partially blocked the light (protecting Pearl and Garnet) so I will disagree with 6-B durability if proposed.
I consider the Corrupting Light like a ritual, with the requirement of all 4 Diamonds. Since only 3 were present, the result was sorta of life wiping, except only for gems. I have to say I do think we need to categorize it as a special attack. It's obviously not something they can dish out at anytime. They need to get together and what not.
As for speed, nobody would scale to this. Steven did react to White's Blast, but it clearly was not the same kind of blast like the Corrupting Light. Since the calc is from the moon, I think MFTL speed is off the table, unless the "4-B" one got accepted?
I consider the Corrupting Light like a ritual, with the requirement of all 4 Diamonds. Since only 3 were present, the result was sorta of life wiping, except only for gems. I have to say I do think we need to categorize it as a special attack. It's obviously not something they can dish out at anytime. They need to get together and what not.
As for speed, nobody would scale to this. Steven did react to White's Blast, but it clearly was not the same kind of blast like the Corrupting Light. Since the calc is from the moon, I think MFTL speed is off the table, unless the "4-B" one got accepted?
- 22,381
- 18,589
Steven has yet to master even a fraction of his abilities. When he did master them, none of White's attacks could harm his shields, though it's more akin to Pink's abilities than Rose's.
There's a few scenes where it blocks the beam that causes the explosion, but it varies wildly.
I consider that assumption greatly lacking in evidence. Also, if they can reverse corruption together (a facet of their individual powers), it stands to reason that they can cause corruption together without some big song and dance ritual. Nothing even suggests that it's any more destructive (as in sweeping away clouds) than their normal blasts.
Seems fine, actually. Although, the calculation isn't saying the beam came from the moon, it's saying the explosion came from the moon.
There's a few scenes where it blocks the beam that causes the explosion, but it varies wildly.
I consider that assumption greatly lacking in evidence. Also, if they can reverse corruption together (a facet of their individual powers), it stands to reason that they can cause corruption together without some big song and dance ritual. Nothing even suggests that it's any more destructive (as in sweeping away clouds) than their normal blasts.
Seems fine, actually. Although, the calculation isn't saying the beam came from the moon, it's saying the explosion came from the moon.
- 22,381
- 18,589
I forgot about something else. The Red Eye calculation is just bad perspective. It varies a little throughout the episode, but you can see this from the way it follows the pod. If it were near the station in this scene, the Eye's central iris wouldn't rotate so much since the pod's far away from the station by this point.
The actual size of the Red Eye is also highly variable in Laser Light Cannon, with it being as large as Amethyst, a few times bigger, or large enough that its fragments alone are the size of cars.
The actual size of the Red Eye is also highly variable in Laser Light Cannon, with it being as large as Amethyst, a few times bigger, or large enough that its fragments alone are the size of cars.
Last edited:
Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E
He/Him- 3,579
- 2,105
Yeah, a gag I heard of being a constant is the complete inconsistencies of proportions.
- 22,381
- 18,589
Yeah, it's definitely supposed to be massive, but the best comparisons we really get are that it's massive compared to the light house.
On another note, the power of fusion is strongly inconsistent as well. We should probably discuss the individual ratings.
On another note, the power of fusion is strongly inconsistent as well. We should probably discuss the individual ratings.
- 15,466
- 22,548
Oh right, forgot about this. White Diamond, Pink Diamond, Blue Diamond, and Yellow Diamond need an 6-B upgrade, and the Laser Light Cannon’s destroying the Red Eye likely needs a recalculation.
- 15,466
- 22,548
The Corrupting Light was calculated at High 6-B, and each Diamond would scale to 1/3 of this value due this being a combined feat done three Diamonds. ByAsura and Sir Ovens seem to be okay with this calculation based on discussion above.
The pixel scaling for the Laser Light Cannon calc needs to be redone it seems:
- 167,857
- 76,474
Okay. Thank you. That seems fine to apply to me then.
Regarding the Red Eye calculation. Please be more specific what you need calculated for this feat, so I can ask some calc group members for help.
- 1,701
- 683
bump?
We seriously have to move forward with this, Opal escalated to "The Red Eye calculation" along with almost all the fusions due to "power scaling".
In addition to that fusions like Smoky Quartz scale over the gems that have just been nerfed, and that make them look bad.
We seriously have to move forward with this, Opal escalated to "The Red Eye calculation" along with almost all the fusions due to "power scaling".
In addition to that fusions like Smoky Quartz scale over the gems that have just been nerfed, and that make them look bad.
- 22,381
- 18,589
I'll remove it soon and add the corrupting light stuff.
On another note, Fusions are not stated to be more powerful than the sum of their parts. Garnet just said they're more than the sum of their parts, referring to personality, their forms, etc.
Onto the actual power of fusions, it's extremely inconsistent and not just based on the strengths of both gems. For example, Sugilite is consistently portrayed in the TV show and comics as the most physically powerful fusion. This is substantiated by the fact that Stevonnie, a fusion between someone who's roughly on par with Garnet and Connie, is almost on par with Smoky Quartz, while Jasper's strength remained virtually unchanged after fusing with a corrupted Gem.
I'll go through each of their strengths one-by-one soon.
On another note, Fusions are not stated to be more powerful than the sum of their parts. Garnet just said they're more than the sum of their parts, referring to personality, their forms, etc.
Onto the actual power of fusions, it's extremely inconsistent and not just based on the strengths of both gems. For example, Sugilite is consistently portrayed in the TV show and comics as the most physically powerful fusion. This is substantiated by the fact that Stevonnie, a fusion between someone who's roughly on par with Garnet and Connie, is almost on par with Smoky Quartz, while Jasper's strength remained virtually unchanged after fusing with a corrupted Gem.
I'll go through each of their strengths one-by-one soon.
Last edited:
- 22,381
- 18,589
At least Large Town level
Stevonnie: Between Pearl and Garnet. Fought Jasper.
Smoky Quartz: Comparable to Garnet. Fought and defeated Corrupted/normal Jasper. Easily one-shot a Corrupted Gem that was overwhelming Amethyst.
Rainbow Quartz 2.0: All we know is that RQ is superior to Steven and Pearl individually.
likely higher
Opal: Stronger than Garnet. Defused a massive fusion that forced Pearl and Amethyst to run after it ate the former's weapons.
Sardonyx: Her relative strength is unknown, but she easily cut through a chamber that was going to crush Garnet and Pearl and defused the Ruby fusion that was going to overpower the Crystal Gems.
Sugilite: Consistently portrayed as superior to the other two-way fusions.
Sunstone: Overpowered an attack that would have most likely defused all of the Crystal Gems.
likely far higher
Rainbow Quartz: Superior in some way (likely quite massively given Rose and Pearl's stability) to Rose Quartz, who scales to Hessonite, who one-shot Sugilite and Sardonyx.
Malachite/Alexandrite: As much as I don't like it, they're straight up featless.
On this note, I have 2 other things to bring up.
Firstly, the Diamonds should lose their likely higher/far higher. The Corrupting Light was a feat they performed in unison, not apart. The fact that they're so far superior to Gems means literally nothing when nobody else has a Country level feat.
Secondly, all of the Gems should get Higher with Shapeshifting. An example of this is Reformed, where Amethyst's larger physical form allowed her to fight on par with a Corrupted Gem that easily poofed her on numerous occasions. Similarly, Garnet was able to fend off Monster Steven in the finale.
Stevonnie: Between Pearl and Garnet. Fought Jasper.
Smoky Quartz: Comparable to Garnet. Fought and defeated Corrupted/normal Jasper. Easily one-shot a Corrupted Gem that was overwhelming Amethyst.
Rainbow Quartz 2.0: All we know is that RQ is superior to Steven and Pearl individually.
likely higher
Opal: Stronger than Garnet. Defused a massive fusion that forced Pearl and Amethyst to run after it ate the former's weapons.
Sardonyx: Her relative strength is unknown, but she easily cut through a chamber that was going to crush Garnet and Pearl and defused the Ruby fusion that was going to overpower the Crystal Gems.
Sugilite: Consistently portrayed as superior to the other two-way fusions.
Sunstone: Overpowered an attack that would have most likely defused all of the Crystal Gems.
likely far higher
Rainbow Quartz: Superior in some way (likely quite massively given Rose and Pearl's stability) to Rose Quartz, who scales to Hessonite, who one-shot Sugilite and Sardonyx.
Malachite/Alexandrite: As much as I don't like it, they're straight up featless.
On this note, I have 2 other things to bring up.
Firstly, the Diamonds should lose their likely higher/far higher. The Corrupting Light was a feat they performed in unison, not apart. The fact that they're so far superior to Gems means literally nothing when nobody else has a Country level feat.
Secondly, all of the Gems should get Higher with Shapeshifting. An example of this is Reformed, where Amethyst's larger physical form allowed her to fight on par with a Corrupted Gem that easily poofed her on numerous occasions. Similarly, Garnet was able to fend off Monster Steven in the finale.
- 1,701
- 683
in something apart, this also affects all those who scale to fusions:
-Rose Quartz
-White light
-Hessonite
-Squaridot....
However... (in something even more apart)
Why Squaridot in his "Half Levi-Sphere" scales to fusions?
-At no time in history is it implied that fusions were used against her
-Damaging fusions and taking their blows is pure gameplay mechanics, as even monster fodders can do it.
-And is not one of these ships the origin of the entire high 7-C category?
Agree
Last edited:
- 22,381
- 18,589
Do we have any profiles or scaling that would be affected by this?
As for the weakest Era-1 Gems, they should probably scale above Cluster Gems (they're fusions, but drastically weakened to the point where fodder Corrupted Gems have better performance against humans/crystal gems), who are durable enough to survive deep in the asthenosphere and would have eventually damaged a drill capable of withstanding 'up to 360 gigapascals of pressure and temperatures [of] 9,800 degrees'.
I think that's Wall level.
Last edited:
