Star Wars Discussion Thread Canon/Legends- Episode IV The Phantom Lore

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I also wish Grevious was more of a badass, much like how he was in the Tardekaski Clone Wars.

 

[ByAsura]

The Clone Wars writers said they intended him to some moustache twirling villain who runs and has a reputation based almost entirely on hearsay. Outside the Clone Wars TV show, he's actually fairly badass, such as Age of Republic - General Grievous #1, even spreading republic forces thin in the Clone Wars film.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

He was a Badass in the old Hand drawn animated series, but a pushover in Revenge of the Sith and the newer CG version. Legends in general does make him more badass than his Disney counterpart.

 

[ByAsura]

I was talking about canon comics. He's still less of a badass than the 2-D Clone Wars, though.

 

[Catalyst75]

He was a Badass in the old Hand drawn animated series, but a pushover in Revenge of the Sith and the newer CG version. Legends in general does make him more badass than his Disney counterpart.

Didn't Legends always make characters vastly more impressive than their film or TV show counterparts (most evident with Prequel material)?

 

[Hellbeast1]

Yes

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Solo needed to make 720 Million dollars to breack even on a 300 million dollar Budget. 150 Million at least for marketing and the company only gets around 60 percent of that. It might not hit a billion it should be doing Endgame numbers . It has made around 940-960 Million dollars in 40 weaks. Disney has lost over 50 percent of the fan base. Fans sea a movie mulitple times. Non fans do not. TLJ made for a 300 Million dollar Budget it is at least 350 million dollar buget . This movie will make less than 150 Million dollars in profit

Solo had a 275 Million Dollar budget not sure what you are smoking and only needed 500 Million to break even.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

2017-2019 had 3 movies each. It is not Irrational to suggest the a final flim in the Skywalker sage sould be doing at the very least Infinity War Numbers. I very highly doubt with the massive reshoots post and pre-production and everything else that it was made for only 275-300 Million dollars. 325-350 Million seems better for the final movie of the skywalker sage. It will barely go do Rogue One numbers that that is a spin off movie.4 Weaks since release and it has only made 954 Million dollars in total. It is barely going to break a Billion dollars. That is not want you should have been expecting for the final flim in the skywalker saga. Yeah, the movie is a disaster in terms the fact it makes zero sense.

Infinity war almost made the same amount as Force Awakens which is something star wars isnt going to touch in a long time. The film financially is OBJECTIVELY not a Failure, do you want to argue that it could have made more? sure but it's not a failure, Solo is a Disaster.

For context TROS is making a Billion Dollars while being panned by critics, has a terrible Cinemascore, the worst for a main star wars series which effect the films legs.

by the sound of your comments it sounds like you watched some angry youtube Video and got the Information from there.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

Yes it is Objectively a screw up, It should not be struggling to break a billion dollars and it did not in a month. I am watched the movies 2 times now. Stop blaming star wars on Youtubers. It is Making ROUGE ONE numbers that is a spin off number and not a Skywalker Saga movie It is barly going to fack in 150 Million dollars in profits. It is Disaster on every level you can think off. It needed at least 3 more years to get it going. Rouge One has more than the the final skywalker movie will even make. It is not doing that well. They have lost 50 percent of thier fanbase in 4 years. Raylos are out of control sending death threats and threatening star wars cast members people and employees at almost every level. I never said it was bombing. It has made 956 Million dollars in like 3 or 4 weaks. Yeah that is failing for the final movie in the Skywalker saga, Faling and bombing are to different things it is Objectively failing but not bombing .Movie studios only get 60 percent of the movies box office totals. The Force Awakens Made less then 800 Million dollars even though it made 2 Billion at the box office. Plus 50 -60 percent on marketing.Solo was made for 250-300 Million.Plus,50-60 for both the marketing and getting the budget back that you broke even, 250 Times .5 is 375 Millions plus 60 percent is likley around 500-550 million. 300 Million times .5 is 450 Million plus 60 percent is around 650-700 Million dollars. Studios spent around 50 percent on marketing plus they only get around 60 percent of that total number.It never hit 400 Million total worldwide at the box office. It is making money but not the 780 Million the Force Awakens did. It might barely scrap a billion dollars in total. For the Final movie in the Skywalker saga that is failing on so many levels it is not even funny.

 

[ByAsura]

It's still doing pretty well for any other movie, the budget and return is comparable to most of the Pirates of the Caribbean films. Also, you can clearly tell the articles saying these things are straight up using click-bait titles, comparing it to any other money-making Star Wars film (the biggest franchise in the world), referring to its opening weekend where it "underperformed", or simply talking about its lack of success in China.

May I remind you that the Phantom Menace, a film universally agreed to be terrible, made the top 50 highest grossing films. So return isn't an objective measure of quality.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

Yes I can But this movie is really do doing well is doing excellent for a normal movie. The Phantom Mence has some really nice things about it. One might have bombed mate. One of those movies did rouge one numbers on like a 380 Million dollar budget. How the hell should star destroyer be real planet killers. They lack the power generation. But now the can kill Jupiter sized planets. Destorying a planet in 15 seconds would be large planet levels I think. I thought it took a dreadnought a battle station or a real planet to kill one. Planets are not hard to destroy they are very easy to destroy. Even stars galaxies and universes are easly enough to destroy. Gravity is extrmeley weak you need thousands of kilometers of rock dirt and molten metal to keep your body plated to the ground of a planet.

 

[ByAsura]

And The Rise of Skywalker doesn't have nice things about it?

Why can't Star Destroyers be planet-killers? Previous ones lack the power generation, these are new ones (fitted with axial superlasers) designed directly for that purpose. They've never destroyed a Jupiter-sized planet, one blew up Kijimi, which is 9,874 kilometers in diameter—smaller than Venus, let alone Jupiter—with a prolonged blast. The Death Star I can much more violently destroy larger planets with one blast.

The difficulty of destroying a planet is literally why they made these ships. It's because they can destroy a planet that they are a massive threat to the galaxy.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

First it is not that hard to destroy a planet. They have the energy requirements to dispaite the fact in cannon only things like the death stars to blow up a planet. I am talking about the energy needed to Blow up a large planet such as jupiter. Because it degrades space battles it it takes one shot to win , It is plot dvice and nothing more. We do not need super weapons in star wars anymore. Blowing up a city and blow up a planet is about 18 orders of magatue in power generation. Our suns puts out around 10 to the 26th watts of power. And takes around 10 to the 41 joules to destroy it . And those are pretty much scaled-up version of the Rouge One Imperial Star Destroyer.Because superweapons have always been a plot device .

 

[ByAsura]

It didn't blow up a large planet like Jupiter, so this is irrelevant. It's entirely possible that they can't in ship-to-ship combat, like the OG Death Star. Plus, power generation is irrelevant to an extent, the Death Stars worked using Kyber Crystals for energy focusing and intensifying.

You don't want another superweapon, ok. But that doesn't represent everyone. For example, I actually liked the Conqueror from Legends and thought these ships were a cool addition to canon.

According to the Visual Directory, they're entirely new ships that just look like the Imperial-class.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

Most people likley. I love the eclipse and sovereign class too. It has the power generation needed. First Hypermatter could be some over powered form of dark matter with the density of neutronium or something like that it does not have to be normal matter or antimatter.

 

[ByAsura]

The Death Star used kyber crystals to intensify the beam, which was powered by the hypermatter reactor. Rogue One made this clear. It did have a hypermatter reactor, but that wasn't the reason why it could destroy a planet. This is even stated in Catalyst: A Rogue One Novel

• The weapon will prove to be our greatest challenge. The hypermatter reactor, the drives, all the rest, are merely elaborations of the armaments our finest engineering firms have been able to provide to Star Destroyers and other vessels. But the weapon...the weapon won't merely be a larger version of the turbolaser. It will be something that has yet to be seen.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

Maybe the Xyston has a solar ionization reactor witch is a fusion type reactor. At least with antimatter it only takes hundreds of trillions of metric tonnes to blow up a planet, it might take the moons mass with fusion to blow up a planet with fusion power.

 

[ByAsura]

That's never stated or implied. If you need to say "well, it could be this instead" and overcomplicate something with explainations, your argument really begins to fall apart.

Hypermatter is just fuel.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

It is matter and matter can be used has fuel.

 

[ByAsura]

Exactly my point. You hit the nail right on the head. It's not antimatter.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

Antimatter acts like normal matter mate. It has to be contained while in a normal matter environment but it acts extremely like to normal matter besides that. It just has opposite charges compared to normal matter .That is mostly it.

 

[ByAsura]

Stop going back on your own arguments, it's getting ridiculous at this point. Also, hypermatter is never implied to be antimatter, not even by Legends, and mining droids can handle it normally.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

I am not just say that it acts mostly like normal matter. Hypermatter is some sort of matter crealy it has matter in the name so it must be a kind of matter. It is not getting ridiculous. Hey have opposite charges but otherwise they act mostly the same. Hence why it is called Antimatter and not matter. Never siad that antimatter was hypermatter. I said that Dark Matter might be Hypermatter. Dark Matter is not Antimatter .But Anti particles of dark matter might exist. Hypermatter is for Hyperdrives. Hence why Hyperdrives need Hypermatter. in order to function. We have zero idea why solar ionization or hypermater annhilation reactors are. just that they annhiliate hyperparticles and ionize solar particles

 

[ByAsura]

First, you say it's matter, and then you say it's antimatter. Chose. They act the same, but they're not the same and nothing implies it is Hyperfuel in Star Wars, frankly it's the opposite. No, Dark Matter/Dark Energy and Hypermatter are two different things in Star Wars, and the latter is made unnaturally and the former is natural (permeating throughout the entire universe) but was previously impossible to harness.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

I said it was Dark Matter witch is not normal matter by anyones meaning of matter by a cosmic longshot. They are different things that act the same. Never said it was antimatter only maye dark matter.How is Dark Matter made? Sorry if I am upsetting you .

 

[ByAsura]

I didn't say it was normal matter, I said hyperfuel and dark matter/energy are two different things. It's natural in Star Wars, and is implied to be the same as it is in this universe, with the exception of superweapons harnessing its power.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

The rise of skywalker does have nice things about. Some not many. Galaxies contain Hundreds of Millions to many Trillions of stars I do not think a star destroyer fleet will be a threat. Not even a minor one. at the Very worst. The fleet of good guy ships was nice the goddam snake thing and worm thing was nice.The Y Wings were nice the new walker and TIE fighters were nice. The new troopers were nice.

 

[Naitez]

The actors were good in the movies even if they had some annoying dialogue like the MCU-like banter during some of the chase scenes that's worse than anything Joss Whedon could write. Adam Driver is the best actor in the movie. Even the lightsaber fight between young Luke and CGI Leia looked sort of how the Jedi would fight in the prequels.

If there is one thing TRoS got down, it's the technical aspects. Then again, so did the prequels even with its dated CGI.

 

[ByAsura]

By the way, why could those First Order TIE Fighters keep up with the Falcon?

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

It is supposed to be based on the "Hyperspace Tracking" technology the First Order invented by the events of the Last Jedi.

In Disney canon, the Millennium Falcon has a Class 1 hyperdrive, while the new TIE Fighters have Class 2 hyperdrives. So either the difference between the hyperdrives isn't that big, or the TIE Fighters are able to reuse the Hyperspace portal the Millennium Falcon created.

The hyperspace skipping sequence was still stupid. He keeps hyperspacing through obstacles inside planets, and conveniently stopping a short distance from other obstacles inside other planets? Does Poe have probability manipulation? Did hyperspace get retconned into literal teleportation instead of a dimension that allows MFTL travel?

Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova, and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?
	~ Han Solo, to Luke Skywalker​

 

[ByAsura]

I understand the hyperspace tracking thing, but they still followed the ship (not just through the portal) after it had a head start. The Falco has a Class 0.5 in Disney canon, also, the difference isn't small given how Class 1s are portrayed as much faster than most of the Empire's ships, they even say this in Tarki, where the Carrion Spike is the fastest ship in the fleet.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

So it is down to First Order ships having technology that allows them to replicate the speed of whatever ship they follow into hyperspace, or this being plot-induced stupidity. It is probably the later since the whole scene contradicts multiple hyperspace travel rules.

 

[ByAsura]

I'd also say it's the latter. Or they recently decided to refit over a dozen tiny TIEs (the Falcon's later hyperdrive is twice the size of Lando's Class 1, for reference) with a Class 0.5 hyperdrive.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Yes it is Objectively a screw up, It should not be struggling to break a billion dollars and it did not in a month. I am watched the movies 2 times now. Stop blaming star wars on Youtubers. It is Making ROUGE ONE numbers that is a spin off number and not a Skywalker Saga movie It is barly going to fack in 150 Million dollars in profits. It is Disaster on every level you can think off. It needed at least 3 more years to get it going. Rouge One has more than the the final skywalker movie will even make. It is not doing that well. They have lost 50 percent of thier fanbase in 4 years. Raylos are out of control sending death threats and threatening star wars cast members people and employees at almost every level. I never said it was bombing. It has made 956 Million dollars in like 3 or 4 weaks. Yeah that is failing for the final movie in the Skywalker saga, Faling and bombing are to different things it is Objectively failing but not bombing .Movie studios only get 60 percent of the movies box office totals. The Force Awakens Made less then 800 Million dollars even though it made 2 Billion at the box office. Plus 50 -60 percent on marketing.Solo was made for 250-300 Million.Plus,50-60 for both the marketing and getting the budget back that you broke even, 250 Times .5 is 375 Millions plus 60 percent is likley around 500-550 million. 300 Million times .5 is 450 Million plus 60 percent is around 650-700 Million dollars. Studios spent around 50 percent on marketing plus they only get around 60 percent of that total number.It never hit 400 Million total worldwide at the box office. It is making money but not the 780 Million the Force Awakens did. It might barely scrap a billion dollars in total. For the Final movie in the Skywalker saga that is failing on so many levels it is not even funny.

no that's not how marketing works where the hell are you even pulling these numbers.

the rule of thumb is production budget times 2.5.

also for your rogue One comparision, you do realize both Revenge of the Sith and Return of the Jedi adjusted for Inflation would barely cross a Billion right?, Rogue One is an Outlier and benefitted from the honeymoon phase of star wars being back.

also im not blaming youtubers on star wars stop strawmanning me, i stated that what your talking and complaining about sounds like something factory default ragebait youtubers say.


TROS is not a failure it is just blandly fine.

It's not amazing and it's not terrible.

 

[Catalyst75]

Resurgence hasn't said anything coherent since he got on here, as far as I am aware. Just ignore him.

 

[Catalyst75]

As for the light-speed skipping, it definitely is rather confusing. Best I can figure for justification is that either the jumps were short-range enough that they were still within the same star system (or light-year), or it was a pre-plotted course in case of pursuit to avoid tracking by bigger ships.

 

[Naitez]

So it is down to First Order ships having technology that allows them to replicate the speed of whatever ship they follow into hyperspace, or this being plot-induced stupidity. It is probably the later since the whole scene contradicts multiple hyperspace travel rules.

I would call this either a total ass pull or headscratcher since it raises so many questions. Either way, the real reason why they can do it is so the movie can start with a space chase thats more than just avoiding Asteroids or dogfighting. Don't question it, just consume product.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

Catalyst75 please stop with this behavior you have already been called out multiple times form star mabbers. You also have not said anything worth anything. The Rise of Skywalker might not hit joker numbers. In the final flim of the Star Wars saga it is Objectivity failing. In comparasion for a movie of that caliber Joker Rouge one will make more.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

It is one of the worst performing movies in trems of lags. They are still paying back that 4 Billion dollars they are paying for it. The rise of skywalker has made almost 70 Million dollars in profit. Joker is the most profitable comic book movie of all time.

 

[Catalyst75]

Current box office after the weekend puts it into the top 50 highest grossing films of all time at 989 million dollars (as I predicted). Within the week, it will easily pass the 1 billion dollar mark. That puts it solidly on-track to pass Rogue One and Joker, within the week at minimum.

Where it will end up by the end of its full run, only time will tell.