(Staff discussion) Re-adding Goku's resistance to Time stop

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Ok, I've started a new thread, I'm going to just copy paste the suggestion of the previous OP.
Antvisma asked me to do this.

This feat is legit. One thing can be sure is that Immeasurable speed via Time-Skip could possibly be an outlier but the by product of it which is Time-Stop it is not.

King Kai says "But I heard you predicted a few seconds in time at the martial arts match, right?" (6:20). Implying that Hit's Time Skip goes forward in time to attack which Time Stops because Son Goku's actions haven't been decided in the future. Son Goku forced his way in the future to resist and counter hit's time skip which gives him resistance to it (20:24). Until Hit power up further (8:20).

According to the Speed page, Note 7. Supports this feat.

Vados statement is partially correct (14:11) which was taken out of context. First of all, this is not a retcon to their previous confrontation. This is her saying that it is not Time Stop and that Hit is just skipping time. But what happens when you skip time? Again look above!

Conclusion:

Resistance to Time Stop needs to be added.



Hit's range for his Time Skip needs to be added because it is not Universal. It is a Pocket Dimension (17:42). Seems to be Tens of Meters.

Hope this helps

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I agree.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

I agree.

Only Staff

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Only Staff

Then fix the title bruh. "Stuff discussion"

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Then fix the title bruh. "Stuff discussion"

It's already there

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Bro there is a typo in your title, "Stuff discussion", change it to staff.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Bro there is a typo in your title, "Stuff discussion", change it to staff.

Ah ok thanks

 

[Antvasima]

I also agree with this to be added. In addition, I think that we agreed about adding battle precognition for Goku as well, based on his fight with Hit, in our previous thread about this.

 

[BetterThanYou]

Can't goku gets time stop resistance from scaling with jiren, who broke out of time cage through sheer might while beingsuppressed.
I know this is a staff thread but I really want to get my point across.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that is also a valid feat to scale from.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

I suppose that is also a valid feat to scale from.

Wait, do we really scale resustances, I thought Hax wasn't releated with AP

 

[Bernkastelll]

Wait, do we really scale resustances, I thought Hax wasn't releated with AP

Time Cage could be broke by pure strenght by Jiren, and Goku strength surpass Jiren one

 

[DontTalkDT]

Not going to say anything about this (yet).
Here's the thread where it was removed, though:

https://vsbattles.com/threads/removing-gokus-time-stop-resistance.112235/

Thought other people that evaluate this might find it useful to read what the reasons were for that.

 

[BetterThanYou]

Wait, do we really scale resustances, I thought Hax wasn't releated with AP

In this case, we should. Suppressed jiren did it by sheer might so everyone who scales to suppress jiren should get resistance to time stop.
Ui omen goku, post ui omen SSB goku, MUI goku, SSBE Vegeta, GOD Toppo, Post TOP Golden Frieza, Ikari ssj and ssjfp broly, and gogeta should scale to this. Possibly kefla should scale too.

 

[BetterThanYou]

And yeah all GODs, Angels, and Grand Priest should scale to this too.
Hopefully I am not missing anyone.

 

[Bernkastelll]

In this case, we should. Suppressed jiren did it by sheer might so everyone who scales to suppress jiren should get resistance to time stop.
Ui omen goku, post ui omen SSB goku, MUI goku, SSBE Vegeta, GOD Toppo, Post TOP Golden Frieza, Ikari ssj and ssjfp broly, and gogeta should scale to this. Possibly kefla should scale too.

Not sure about it, it seems more like a weakness of Time Cage that can be broken by people stronger than Hit

 

[BetterThanYou]

Not sure about it, it seems more like a weakness of Time Cage that can be broken by people stronger than Hit

Maybe. But if you guys choose to scale goku's time stop resistance from jiren then all these characters that I mentioned will scale.

 

[SirAlex09]

Not sure about it, it seems more like a weakness of Time Cage that can be broken by people stronger than Hit

Well Vados said : His strength transcends time

 

[ArmBill]

If scaling hax resistance is applied for people negating time powers, then other abilities that have been proven to be negated with power should as well. Like hakai, transmution, etc.

Also I would say it isn't a weakness of the hax, due to power being the cause to these negations, these abilities still have the same affect as the haxs they're representing. Power in Dragonball also created the vice shout, you wouldn't logically let other verses use that, so this should be no different. Other verses which are stronger than the Dragonball characters who uses an ability shouldn't be able resist it unless proven in their series.

T̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶i̶m̶m̶e̶a̶s̶u̶r̶a̶b̶l̶e̶ ̶s̶p̶e̶e̶d̶,̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶s̶i̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶a̶l̶o̶t̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶m̶y̶ ̶p̶o̶i̶n̶t̶s̶ ̶w̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶i̶g̶n̶o̶r̶e̶d̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶l̶a̶s̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶e̶a̶d̶.̶ ̶I̶'̶l̶l̶ ̶g̶i̶v̶e̶ ̶a̶n̶ ̶e̶d̶i̶f̶i̶c̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶n̶e̶x̶t̶ ̶b̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ th̶a̶t̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶r̶e̶l̶a̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶e̶a̶d̶.̶

 

[Antvasima]

Wait, do we really scale resustances, I thought Hax wasn't releated with AP

It seldom is as far as I am aware. I just thought that Jiren resisting time stop should warrant the ability being listed for him as well.

 

[Antvasima]

@Elizhaa @Theglassman12 @TISSG7Redgrave @Promestein @Dino_Ranger_Black @Dragonmasterxyz @Liger686 @Soldier_Blue @DarkDragonMedeus @KLOL506 @Therefir @Super_Saiyan_God_Julian @DemonGodMitchAubin @Migue79 @The_real_cal_howard @Antoniofer @LordGriffin1000 @Starter_Pack @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @AKM sama

What do you think about this?

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

@Elizhaa @Theglassman12 @TISSG7Redgrave @Promestein @Dino_Ranger_Black @Dragonmasterxyz @Liger686 @Soldier_Blue @DarkDragonMedeus @KLOL506 @Therefir @Super_Saiyan_God_Julian @DemonGodMitchAubin @Migue79 @The_real_cal_howard @Antoniofer @LordGriffin1000 @Starter_Pack @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @AKM sama

What do you think about this?

Shouldn't we just give Goku resistance to time stop due to Hit?

 

[Antvasima]

That is fine with me, yes.

 

[Vietthai96]

Again, it never implied Time Skip is Time Stop, or else other character will just stated that Hit stop time.

 

[AKM sama]

I agree with adding time stop and resistance to it. Vados' explanation of Hit's ability is not incorrect. But she was only explaining why Goku couldn't hit Hit. And that's because Hit stores the time he skips and converts it into his parallel dimension. That's not to say he doesn't stop time either. One ability has many applications in this case. In just the previous episode, Hit himself stated that he had stopped time for everybody except the Mob boss. And the visual effect of when he stops time during that instant is the same visual effect we see in his fight with Goku.

The ability is described weirdly but it functions exactly like a time stop in their fight, and we have a statement and confirmation that Hit can in fact stop time using the same visual effects. So it makes more sense to treat it that way. It's obviously better than assuming Hit and Goku can consistently travel at immeasurable speeds.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

I agree with adding time stop and resistance to it. Vados' explanation of Hit's ability is not incorrect. But she was only explaining why Goku couldn't hit Hit. And that's because Hit stores the time he skips and converts it into his parallel dimension. That's not to say he doesn't stop time either. One ability has many applications in this case. In just the previous episode, Hit himself stated that he had stopped time for everybody except the Mob boss. And the visual effect of when he stops time during that instant is the same visual effect we see in his fight with Goku.

The ability is described weirdly but it functions exactly like a time stop in their fight, and we have a statement and confirmation that Hit can in fact stop time using the same visual effects. So it makes more sense to treat it that way. It's obviously better than assuming Hit and Goku can consistently travel at immeasurable speeds.

Even in the official sypnopsis for DBS chapter 39 from Toei's official Web, it says that Hit Time stops.
It's stated in the summary:

東映アニメーション　 ドラゴンボール超

テレビシリーズ初！鳥山 明オリジナル原案！「ドラゴンボール」アニメ新シリーズ

www.toei-anim.co.jp

It says Time stop in Spanish, English, Italian, German, etc, here is the little fragment where is stated, translated in English:

"Goku predicts the movement after 0.1 seconds and counterattacks brilliantly at the "time skip" that stops the time for 0.1 seconds and attacks!"

 

[Antvasima]

So can this be applied now then?

Also, should we add battle precognition for Goku as well?

Can somebody re-post the evidence for this from the previous thread?

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

̶a̶l̶o̶t̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶m̶y̶ ̶p̶o̶i̶n̶t̶s̶ ̶w̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶i̶g̶n̶o̶r̶e̶d̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶l̶a̶s̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶e̶a̶d̶.̶ ̶I̶'̶l̶l̶ ̶g̶i̶v̶e̶ ̶a̶n̶ ̶e̶d̶i̶f̶i̶c̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶n̶e̶x̶t̶ ̶b̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ th̶a̶t̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶r̶e̶l̶a̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶e̶a̶d̶.̶

Sorry for the comment. Anyway, this is why I disagreed with making the thread staff only, but seems like that got ignored too. Tbf you should just make a separate thread about it at this point

As for this, I agree with time stop resistance

 

[AKM sama]

So can this be applied now then?

I'd wait for some more staff members to respond here.

Also nice catch on Toei's official website description.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Sorry for the comment. Anyway, this is why I disagreed with making the thread staff only, but seems like that got ignored too. Tbf you should just make a separate thread about it at this point

As for this, I agree with time stop resistance

Nah, there is no need to, the official Toei website summary contradicts It, watch my last comment, with Toei's official Website link. And in the previous episode, Hit himself stated that he had stopped time for everybody except the Mob boss (the rich Alien thing).

 

[Vietthai96]

Nah, there is no need to, the official Toei website summary contradicts It, watch my last comment, with Toei's official Website link. And in the previous episode, Hit himself stated that he had stopped time for everybody except the Mob boss (the rich Alien thing).

Hit only stop time in pre-ToP, he never stated that in U6 vs U7 arc that is backscale which make no sense

About Toei official site, we can ask translator for the summary

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Hit only stop time in pre-ToP, he never stated that in U6 vs U7 arc that is backscale which make no sense

No, that's what It says in the official Page, and I translated It on Spanish, German, English, Chinese, and It says that Hit stops times for 0,1 seconds. And again, the visual effect is exactly the same as when he "freezed" Goku in time on the U6 VS U7 ARC.
Also, as I said, Hit himself stated that he stops time when he was about to kill the Alien.

Also, the summary puts time Skip on comas " ": "time skip" and then after It, states that stops time.

 

[AKM sama]

Also, the summary puts time Skip on comas " ": "time skip" and then after It, states that stops time.

For context, the name of Hit's ability is "Toki-tobashi" which literally translates to "time-skip" in English. But that's just the name. As we already know, the applications are multiple. It can selectively stop time and also create an entirely different body of space-time for himself too. The "Time Cage" ability he used on Jiren that suspends someone in time is also an extended/continuous use of toki-tobashi on said person.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

For context, the name of Hit's ability is "Toki-tobashi" which literally translates to "time-skip" in English. But that's just the name. As we already know, the applications are multiple. It can selectively stop time and also create an entirely different body of space-time for himself too. The "Time Cage" ability he used on Jiren that suspends someone in time is also an extended/continuous use of toki-tobashi on said person.

Yeah that's right

 

[Therefir]

I agree AKM sama and God900, Hit's ability has always worked as a Time Stop throughout the anime (such as when he killed an alien while time was completely frozen). The technique that we saw in the Goku vs Hit round 2 episode was just another way to use his powers.

 

[Orange]

I mean there is a simpler [i lied] explanation [it ain't simple] hit can use time skip, he skips time, and the time he skips is stored, later on he shiewd the ability to time stop, Both look familiar.
1-hit can use time stop from the stored time from the skip
2- hit uses both abilities at the same time, he stops time, and then skips it [or both activate at the same time] [that's why we see goku kinda stopped in his time skip] he later can use the both abilities individually or together, he can use time skip, and tieds of time, and his intangible thingie [he dtires the time he skipped, creating a parallel world made from skipped time] vadis explained time stop, hit uses time skip.
Instead of treating the both abilities as one, it's easier to treat one as a byproduct of the other, or treat them separately.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with AKM Sama

 

[Elizhaa]

I am fine with AKM's and God900's points for additions.
Edited

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I agree with the addition.

 

[KingTempest]

Same