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and isn't the difference between the player and those he controls very important to the undertale/deltarune lore as a whole?
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((SPOILERS)) Deltarune Chapter 2 Upgrades/Additions
- Thread starter ShockingPsychic
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Correct yourself:
You said "he is said to survive without a soul".
Thanks for the evidence. None of them are statements, but they are feats.
In theory, maybe Kris has a SOUL of their own, & maybe that's why they reject the control we exert on them, but that's speculation.
There is a save file Kris SOMEHOW made through unknown means that the player didn't make. Also, Deltarune doesn't use all the same rules as Undertale, so we can't assume it's Time Manipulation without evidence to the contrary.
But yeah, my issues with Multiple Selves are:
1. If it's Multiple Minds, how do we know the SOUL isn't just a remotely controlled means of physically controlling Kris that lacks a mind of its own? Their emotions, expressions, & how they execute commands are still their own.
2. Does Kris have a Soul of their own that isn't the SOUL? If not, does it still qualify as Possession to control such a SOUL-less body?
I'd ask for more input on those matters, but they aren't a big deal, so I understand if folks don't wanna discuss them.
ShockingPsychic
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While we're on the topic, Kris' gender is left ambiguous, it's fine to refer to them as whichever pronouns you want. However, for the profiles, we should refer to Kris with they/them.
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ok, one sec, I will read all later with more concentration, I'm doing some other things now
ShockingPsychic
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This is still being debated.
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No problem. I'm worrying the thread is going a bit faster than some would prefer. Also, off-topic, but, plus, I have food & want to take time to eat, since I've been typing non-stop a lot recently.
I'd assume my stance on the matter is sufficiently well-established that it's understood, but I can continue debating it if there's points people want to bring up with me.
ShockingPsychic
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The discussion on the Giga Queen scaling is being divided by two separate threads, perhaps we need to explain that here rather in the general Deltarune Discussion thread. I'll edit in my part to the main OP later.
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ok, we are not here to discuss their gender
here is Kris profile about It
referring to the end of chapter 1 when he ripped out their soul/The palyer and went to eat Toriel's pie
Spanton neo talking to Kris in the PR (2:25) fight about needing his soul? And given support that he's talking about the heart-shaped object (I'll refer to this as "player" from here on) as he previously asked the player for kris during his fight next to his dumpster
It's unlikely with how many times it's shown that the Player is their soul, there must be other examples besides Spamton like the books in the library, but I'll now go after answering the rest of your messages
Deltarune is certainly at least in the same verse as Undertale, this is mainly seen in the fact that Sans was there and brought his house from the Undertale universe to Deltarune (this is visible in the fact that the snow on top of his house) so unless you want to make sans be able to travel between different verses i doubt a bit they are both not within the same verse with at least similar rules, i don't know about this save file you're talking about that wasn't created by the player, could you show me a video or something about it?
Deltarune actually has close to 0 mentions that its save system is time manipulation, but what sans inside deltarune's universe shows us is that it reminds us (player) which would only be possible if we were the same player who played undertale, this is shown with him making fun of the fact that Kris shouldn't know who he is (perhaps another proof that the player in undertale and deltarune are the same entity and the fact that you can talk about alphys to Undyne in deltarune, 2 characters who shouldn't even know each other, and the player shows himself to just make Kris talk about things he knows, not just any crap, showing that the player in deltarune knows about undertale at least, but this is debatable)
1- could you write this point? I think I didn't understood It
2- Kris clearly has a mind, so even without a soul it would still be a form of possession.
i think some of my arguments must have been considerably confused, sorry about that
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I think this is a subject that should have its own CRT
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Forget the sans talk argument, just stik with his house one
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one more thing
the player profile show the deltarune one as a upgraded version of the undertale player
and kris profile shows this as time manipulatin
the player profile show the deltarune one as a upgraded version of the undertale player
and kris profile shows this as time manipulatin
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one more thing, if the term for having multiple selfes is so specific, spanton shouldn't have that in his profile
ShockingPsychic
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Spamton's profile has a few issues at first glance.
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Whatever. I just asked a question about where a statement happened where you used the wrong terminology, & you responded with only a correction about the word you erroneously used that I had quoted.
As far as I can tell, Kris's profile lacks an explanation for WHY Kris can take physical attacks as attacks on their SOUL. Combined with us knowing the SOUL can leave (Ex: To go to the Susie vs Lancer fight, or to view the Susie & Noelle cutscene & make decisions.), & the stuff about the SOUL having Damage Transferral, it feels weird saying that that ability is Kris's when it's probably just the SOUL damage transferring to Kris.
A reasonable, if mostly off-screen feat that we lack a lot of info about. (Ex: Timeframe.)
Yes, Spamton Neo wants the SOUL.
For clarity's sake, I'll post the text of the book about SOULs here:
"The SOUL has long been called many things. The font of our compassion. The source of our will. The container of our "life force.". But even now, the true function of it is unknown."
Perhaps it is what Kris was born with, though it feels weird, since Kris's SOUL doesn't seem to be the source of THEIR will, & they're certainly willfull even without it. Not to mention having a SAVE that isn't ours.
(Not to mention there's the possibility that the SURVEY at the start is in fact putting us into Kris.)
Though, the SOUL being Kris's might be supported by how they move; It's very stunted & jerky, which I could believe are indications that they're disconnected from the "container of their 'life force'."
No.
"How does this game relate to UNDERTALE? Is it a sequel?
Please don't worry too much about that.
Essentially, this is not the world of UNDERTALE.
If you completed UNDERTALE, the ending and world are as you left it.
If everyone was happy there, the people in the UNDERTALE world will still be happy.
So, please don't worry about those characters, and that world. It will remain untouched.
To rephrase that, DELTARUNE's world is a different one.
With different characters, that have lived different lives.
A whole new story will happen...
I don't know what you call this kind of game.
It's just a game you can play after you complete UNDERTALE, if you want to.
That's all."
The creator of the game himself said Deltarune is not the world of Undertale.
Quoting the above for Toby said:
"If you completed UNDERTALE, the ending and world are as you left it.
If everyone was happy there, the people in the UNDERTALE world will still be happy.
So, please don't worry about those characters, and that world. It will remain untouched.
To rephrase that, DELTARUNE's world is a different one.
With different characters, that have lived different lives."
So I would assume it goes without saying that Sans Undertale DID NOT travel between universes. Deltarune Sans lived a different life, & Undertale's world is untouched, still happy. & I doubt Papyrus is still happy if his brother ditched him.
Kris's save file. It can be only viewed by accessing a SAVE point with no save data on ANY of the save files.
Bizarrely, it has a time of 0:00, which is weird because if you do a SAVE in Deltarune, you'll notice that the time is updated when the SAVE is completed. Meaning Kris's SAVE was created/updated at a time of 0 hours & 0 minutes, & possibly 0 seconds.
Kris is also Level 1 on their SAVE file, for some reason.
If you have data on a DIFFERENT save file when accessing a SAVE Point with no data on the CURRENT Save File, it shows as Level 0, named EMPTY, & a time of 0:00.
AFAIK, Kris is never Level 0, & considering it calls a save file with no data as Level 0, this would imply Kris did exist when they made their Save File, & that the qualifications to be Level 0 are to not exist, & the qualifications to be Level 1 are to exist.
The Player might know of Undertale, but I'm skeptical that makes its SOUL of the same variety, or such.
The only explanation I can think of is that Kris is a prankster (Something we know about Kris.), & it's their idea of a joking way to greet this stranger who just moved into town.
Though, the alternative being "Who the hell are you" makes it seem like Kris is kinda edgy, if Kris proposed that dialogue option, or the player is oddly hostile; Why would they be so snappy if they didn't know who Sans was, when they seem peacefully talkative with everyone else?
You didn't understand this?: "1. If it's Multiple Minds, how do we know the SOUL isn't just a remotely controlled means of physically controlling Kris that lacks a mind of its own? Their emotions, expressions, & how they execute commands are still their own."
If so: I meant that the SOUL might not have a mind of its own, but be controlled by an external being. Like a remote-controlled car or a machine or a puppet. It still tells Kris what to do, but the mind controlling it isn't in the SOUL that's in Kris.
I agree that Kris has a mind.
But there are 3 kinds of Possession, as our Wiki's page ponts out:
- Mental Possession: The user possesses the victim by entering their mind or projecting their consciousness into their body so that they can control them.
- Physical Possession: The user possesses the victim by entering their body and controlling them from the inside out.
- Spiritual Possession: The user possesses the victim by entering their body with their own soul and taking control of their actions.
Type 1 (Multiple Minds): Generally describes those who has one or more personas or personalities co-inhabiting their mind. Note that characters that simply suffer from a dissociative identity disorder (also known as multiple personality disorder) don't normally qualify for this ability; in order to meet the requirements, their alternative identities must be extremely relevant, influent and grant them exceptional or supernatural powers, abilities and/or resistances, sometimes even affecting the very structure of their body.
- Examples: Kenshin Himura (Rurouni Kenshin), Alien X (Ben 10), Majin Buu (Chou) (Dragon Ball)
- Examples: Yugi Muto (Yu-Gi-Oh!), Diavolo (JoJo's Bizarre Adventure)
- Examples: Venom (Edward Brock) (Marvel Comics), Shinichi Izumi (Parasyte), Ryūko Matoi (Kill la Kill)
It feels like a dubious case for Type 2, because we don't know if the SOUL is "sentient", as opposed to just a remotely-controlled means of puppeteering, remotely operated by the player & engineered by Gaster or whoever set up the Survey or something.
I guess Likely Multiple Selves (Type 2) might make sense?
No problem.
Sorry about the long post, all.
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Are them Noelle and Queen profiles coming?
Lacku
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Somebody made a Noelle profile already however its very off and needs a lot of clean up and revision, a Queen profile hasnt been made yet though
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So does Thrash get its own profile?
Lacku
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I got lucky on my first try and spared him with less than 10 hp for all three characters
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Possibly. Or as a key for a profile for The Delta Warriors. (Which I feel should be a team profile, due to some ACTs involving multiple party members, including Dual Heal & Red Buster.)
I have no idea. There was a Noelle (Deltarune) page, but Noelle probably should have the following:
1. Lower base stats than the other Delta Warriors (Starts at Level 1, instead of Level 2. Becomes Level 2 after using IceShock at all, or from observing moss.)
(Also, notably, we don't know if she can become Level 3, which occurs after sealing a Fountain, & can be noted in the post-Chapter 2 Castle Town.)
2. She should probably have Accelerated Development, since, unlike the others, who's stats increment every 10 violent battles, Noelle's increment every four. Also, battles won where she freezes enemies say "Noelle became stronger". I've read it's +1 ATK & +1 MAG per level, but I haven't checked this myself. She also gains +4 HP per violent battle, as opposed to everyone else's +2 HP (With Susie also gaining +1 every 2nd violent encounter.).
3. Because of this list of animation differences for Weird/Snowgrave Route Noelle:
4. Limited Water Manipulation, Air Manipulation, & Ice Manipulation & Sleep Manipulation for Sleep Mist? (Unsure how to classify Sleep Mist.). Healing (Heal Player), Magic.
5. Possibly Enhanced Senses, since she can still hear the SOUL's commands when Kris is down in Berdly's battles. (But this could just be for everyone.) She also heard The SOUL/Player calling them against Weird Route Spamton Neo.
6. ....& since the sound & SFX match IceShock, it seems like it's probably Durability Negation, since it's Magic, & did several hundreds of damage per hit (In a cutscene.) against a statedly higher DEF form of Spamton Neo when Kris's statedly physical attacks couldn't do more than 10.
7. Standard equipment of a Snow Ring & Silver Watch.
Optional equipment is the Royal Pin (Queen gave it to her, & it's sold in the Swatch Cafe in Queen's Mansion.), for the express purpose of creating a Fountain. Possibly other stuff, like the Freeze (Which seems to have a 1-time Sealing since the Addison offering it is implied to be trapped inside.) & Thorn Ring (Which has the "Trance" effect?), & stuff like Kris or Noelle Tea, & the Light Candy/chalk.
The Thorn Ring, besides the stat boosts, also halves TP costs of IceShock & SnowGrave.
8. Might be other stuff. (Ex: She, as well as other party members, can dress up as in hospital garb for the Virovirokun's Take Care ACT.)
9. Weaknesses section probably includes that she is often meek & too quiet, & can be weak-willed, being easily coaxed into doing things or not speaking up for herself. Not to mention that in Weird Route, she initially mistook Berdly for another enemy to freeze. (Maybe that's meant to be dialogue for the "Trance" effect? Dunno if it happens with it off.)
Also, the Thorn Ring decreases her HP in battle to 55, decreasing HP (apparently from pain) even if you're just idling during your own turn, IIRC, & because SnowGrave costs 200% TP normally, cannot be cast without The Thorn Ring. (Not to mention she claims she doesn't know the spell, even after being goaded into trying it, & doesn't seem to realize she can & did cast it afterwards.)
& based on Noelle, after SnowGrave-ing Berdly, saying she doesn't feel good & deciding to go home, & Queen saying she is in no position to help with her plans, SnowGrave &/or the Thorn Ring may have other detrimental effects, besides the ostensible feeling bad afterwards.
10. Oh, & her profile also needs her last name. Previous page's title was Noelle (Deltarune), but she has a full name: Noelle Holiday.
(Also, notably, we don't know if she can become Level 3, which occurs after sealing a Fountain, & can be noted in the post-Chapter 2 Castle Town.)
2. She should probably have Accelerated Development, since, unlike the others, who's stats increment every 10 violent battles, Noelle's increment every four. Also, battles won where she freezes enemies say "Noelle became stronger". I've read it's +1 ATK & +1 MAG per level, but I haven't checked this myself. She also gains +4 HP per violent battle, as opposed to everyone else's +2 HP (With Susie also gaining +1 every 2nd violent encounter.).
3. Because of this list of animation differences for Weird/Snowgrave Route Noelle:
- Noelle gains a new set of encounter animations:
- When Noelle enters an encounter, she is no longer scared.
- When Noelle gets hit, she does not react.
- When Noelle attacks, she mimics casting a spell instead of frantically waving her hands.
- When Noelle defends, she constructs an ice wall instead of covering her eyes with her hands.
- When Noelle ACTs with TakeCareX, she doesn't fall over.
- Upon victory, Noelle appears to pray, and surrounds herself with a blue, snowglobe-like orb.
4. Limited Water Manipulation, Air Manipulation, & Ice Manipulation & Sleep Manipulation for Sleep Mist? (Unsure how to classify Sleep Mist.). Healing (Heal Player), Magic.
5. Possibly Enhanced Senses, since she can still hear the SOUL's commands when Kris is down in Berdly's battles. (But this could just be for everyone.) She also heard The SOUL/Player calling them against Weird Route Spamton Neo.
6. ....& since the sound & SFX match IceShock, it seems like it's probably Durability Negation, since it's Magic, & did several hundreds of damage per hit (In a cutscene.) against a statedly higher DEF form of Spamton Neo when Kris's statedly physical attacks couldn't do more than 10.
7. Standard equipment of a Snow Ring & Silver Watch.
Optional equipment is the Royal Pin (Queen gave it to her, & it's sold in the Swatch Cafe in Queen's Mansion.), for the express purpose of creating a Fountain. Possibly other stuff, like the Freeze (Which seems to have a 1-time Sealing since the Addison offering it is implied to be trapped inside.) & Thorn Ring (Which has the "Trance" effect?), & stuff like Kris or Noelle Tea, & the Light Candy/chalk.
The Thorn Ring, besides the stat boosts, also halves TP costs of IceShock & SnowGrave.
8. Might be other stuff. (Ex: She, as well as other party members, can dress up as in hospital garb for the Virovirokun's Take Care ACT.)
9. Weaknesses section probably includes that she is often meek & too quiet, & can be weak-willed, being easily coaxed into doing things or not speaking up for herself. Not to mention that in Weird Route, she initially mistook Berdly for another enemy to freeze. (Maybe that's meant to be dialogue for the "Trance" effect? Dunno if it happens with it off.)
Also, the Thorn Ring decreases her HP in battle to 55, decreasing HP (apparently from pain) even if you're just idling during your own turn, IIRC, & because SnowGrave costs 200% TP normally, cannot be cast without The Thorn Ring. (Not to mention she claims she doesn't know the spell, even after being goaded into trying it, & doesn't seem to realize she can & did cast it afterwards.)
& based on Noelle, after SnowGrave-ing Berdly, saying she doesn't feel good & deciding to go home, & Queen saying she is in no position to help with her plans, SnowGrave &/or the Thorn Ring may have other detrimental effects, besides the ostensible feeling bad afterwards.
10. Oh, & her profile also needs her last name. Previous page's title was Noelle (Deltarune), but she has a full name: Noelle Holiday.
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Good luck. Hopefully it doesn't get deleted for being below Profile Standards. No offense; I sincerely mean that, & feel it happens an unfortunate amount.
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Doubtful; Not much implies they're bigger than he is, & Noelle says Berdly hit her in the face with a tornado, which would be a bit awkward if the tornado was big enough to affect her whole body.
Tweester (Mario)
vsbattles.fandom.com
Ignoring that Berdly might scale above Jevil's feat, since he's a Ch2 Lightner Boss & thus, should be stronger than Ch1 bosses like Jevil, or at least close. Not to mention, I wouldn't be surprised if Berdly is above Lancer, who's bike crash explosion blew away Ralsei (But then again, that MIGHT mean scaling above Level 1 Ralsei?), & which was calced at a value almost 20% that of Jevil's feat. I wouldn't be surprised if Berdly was above early-game Lancer & Level 1 Ralsei enough to be close to be 5 times stronger....
Still, whether or not you think that'd be impressive for some of Deltarune's 9-B characters, I think the evidence opposes claiming Berdly's tornados are anywhere close to over seven times bigger than a person.
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I made a sandbox profile for Noelle. I still need a quote for her Dark World tabber and some references to use, but if anyone has any additional suggestions, feel free to propose them.
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Who's gonna calculate snowgrave?
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You mean "Who has already calculated SnowGrave?".
Noelle commits murder
vsbattles.fandom.com
However.... Unfortunately, no Calculations Group Member has evaluated the calc for either method for the calculation shown in that blog.
Needs evaluations.
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noiceYou mean "Who has already calculated SnowGrave?".
Noelle commits murder
However.... Unfortunately, no Calculations Group Member has evaluated the calc for either method for the calculation shown in that blog.
Needs evaluations.
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You erroneously named Sleep Mist as "Sleeping Mist" in her Powers & Abilities.
"The Thorn Ring decreases her HP from pain even during the player's turn." is a little misleading, since it also decreases HP during the opponent's turn, too, even if Noelle isn't getting hit; The only time it stops damaging her in battle is if she's at 55 or less HP.
Her weaknesses section should probably also make note of that she doesn't think she knows Snowgrave, nor does she think she knows how to use it, even when the spell is accessible to her.
She may also need (Limited?) Levitation, since she does so (Seemingly involuntarily) when using SnowGrave.
Although I agree with the listed abilities, I don't entirely agree with some things you omitted from her justifications, given reasoning I've already explained above, but I can understand you choosing to think differently, & that's fine.
Yeah. Though. it's a temperature-based feat, so the Durability for surviving it & IceShock would be temperature-related Durability, AFAIK, even though Magic in Deltarune is probably a Universal Energy System. So it may be possible other characters COULD achieve similar AP with Snowgrave.... But to use it at all, Noelle had to get stronger (By an Unknown Amount.), like, 20 times, IIRC, & it one-shot Berdly, too.
So I'm kinda skeptical anyone can scale to SnowGrave, but it's good to have it calc'd.
Has anyone calc'd IceShock? It would be good if we want to assume we can scale characters to one another via Magic.
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"Leave... Leave Susie ALONE!! You think listening to YOU makes me happy!? No! I'll never be happy! Not if I'm controlled by you! Why can't you understand that!?"
- Noelle, after Giga Queen is defeated.
Noelle:"Queen... she said... "Choose the world that makes you happy..." I... don't want to live in a world ruled by her.... but, if that wasn't the case... I wonder if this world... wouldn't be so bad?"
Ralsei: "Huh?"
Noelle: "... Susie, don't you think so too...?"
Susie: "I... uh, Now that you mention it... Kris, isn't this world just... BETTER? We make so many... friends here. Y'know?"
Noelle: "I've never... had an adventure like this before."
Susie: "With axes... and battles... and magic."
Noelle: "Where everything can be healed with a little spell."
Susie: "And no matter what happens... No one tells us what to do!"
Noelle: "Gosh, yeah! S-so, even if things were really scary just now... ... I mean..."
Berdly: "So is there any reason not to...?"
Noelle: "Not that I can think of."
Susie: "Me neither."
Ralsei: "Huh?"
Noelle: "... Susie, don't you think so too...?"
Susie: "I... uh, Now that you mention it... Kris, isn't this world just... BETTER? We make so many... friends here. Y'know?"
Noelle: "I've never... had an adventure like this before."
Susie: "With axes... and battles... and magic."
Noelle: "Where everything can be healed with a little spell."
Susie: "And no matter what happens... No one tells us what to do!"
Noelle: "Gosh, yeah! S-so, even if things were really scary just now... ... I mean..."
Berdly: "So is there any reason not to...?"
Noelle: "Not that I can think of."
Susie: "Me neither."
Dialogue from this battle where Noelle learns about battling using ACTs:
Noelle:"H... huh? What are you telling me to do? ACT...? Can someone please explain what's going on?!"
Virovirokun: "Oh boy, is this your first time in a battle?"
Noelle: "Uh... well... um... yes."
Virovirokun: "Oh boy..."
Narration: "You and Virovirokun explained how battles work to Noelle."
Noelle: "I get it! It's kind of like Dragon Blazers!"
Noelle: "And if we're nice to you, we can win through mercy?"
Virovirokun: "Yeah"
Noelle: "And the way I have to do that is... Dressing up in a weird costume."
Virovirokun: "Yeah" Narration: ...
Battle then resumes. (Usually, by having Noelle suddenly in a nurse outfit before she trips & faceplants into the stuff she was carrying in the tray, with a cartoon splat effect.)
Virovirokun: "Oh boy, is this your first time in a battle?"
Noelle: "Uh... well... um... yes."
Virovirokun: "Oh boy..."
Narration: "You and Virovirokun explained how battles work to Noelle."
Noelle: "I get it! It's kind of like Dragon Blazers!"
Noelle: "And if we're nice to you, we can win through mercy?"
Virovirokun: "Yeah"
Noelle: "And the way I have to do that is... Dressing up in a weird costume."
Virovirokun: "Yeah" Narration: ...
Battle then resumes. (Usually, by having Noelle suddenly in a nurse outfit before she trips & faceplants into the stuff she was carrying in the tray, with a cartoon splat effect.)
Dialogue from Noelle introducing herself into the party:
"Kris, I... um... if it's okay... ... G-got any room for another truce?
Kris: "No Triple Trucies"
Noelle: "Har har, very funny! Well, I'd rather take my chances with you than her!" (Noelle joined the party!)
"Kris, I... um... if it's okay... ... G-got any room for another truce?
Kris: "Of course
Noelle: "Thanks, Kris..." (Noelle joined the party!)
Or such as the dialogue for saying you have a truce... or that she is our enemy.
Maybe for Weird Route Noelle, the dialogue where she says "Kris, it looks like another enemy. Should I freeze them?"
Maybe other dialogue from that scene?
Though, Weird Route might be a bit spoilery to have as a quote for.... (Though, personally, I think Weird Route Noelle should be her own Key, due to being stronger & behaving differently & such.)
The Deltarune Fandom Wiki also has a Gallery showing some of her animations, too. (Doesn't seem to have the one for SnowGrave, but I can imagine why they might not.)
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What are the conclusions here? Finally got around to beating Ch2
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I updated the sandbox profile with suggestions from Imaginym as well as my own reasoning. Further feedback would be appreciated.
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You should make it clear that the first key doesn't have those P&A. Also I think going into what her equipment does might be helpful.
The profile never links to any calculation/profile for her stats, which should definitely be done.
Also I don't think ESP is an actual ability of hers, The Player has shown the ability to control others (Such as Susie in chapter 1) so clearly their influence isn't limited to Kris.
Durability Negation also just seems like AP to me.
Rest seems good
The profile never links to any calculation/profile for her stats, which should definitely be done.
Also I don't think ESP is an actual ability of hers, The Player has shown the ability to control others (Such as Susie in chapter 1) so clearly their influence isn't limited to Kris.
Durability Negation also just seems like AP to me.
Rest seems good
GodlyCharmander
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If Chapter 1 Characters are Wall Level, the late party should be Wall Level+ going off Spamton NEO's statement of having 3x his normal fire power.
GodlyCharmander
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My mistake, I believe I forgot to ask for evaluation beforehand, I will do so right now.You mean "Who has already calculated SnowGrave?".
Noelle commits murder
However.... Unfortunately, no Calculations Group Member has evaluated the calc for either method for the calculation shown in that blog.
Needs evaluations.
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I dunno if that statement is trustworthy, right after saying he's got thrice the firepower he says he's got twice the waterpower and that doesn't really mean anything
GodlyCharmander
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I made it an extra key for each character on my personal wiki, see how it looks like
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The chapters 1 are 9-B+ tho shouldnt they be 9-A?
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