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((SPOILERS)) Deltarune Chapter 2 Upgrades/Additions

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Imaginym said:
Swatch's dialogue implies Rouxls has been a customer/nuisance before, so Rouxls being there may be because of his own volition.... Or Spamton moved him in front of the Cafe? Maybe? Nonetheless, Rouxls's presence in that position, involuntary or not, blocks the doorway, keeping the Swatchlings trapped.
Click to expand...
You think that Roulx's petrified body will trap the swatchlings? I think not.
 
1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void said:
You think that Roulx's petrified body will trap the swatchlings? I think not.
Click to expand...
Lol. But on the off-chance you're not joking, what makes you so sure?
I mean, we're told "It's terrible... The butlers are all trapped in the cafe... Queen is nowhere to be found, and... With no one to defend it, a strange force has taken over the mansion!"

& Rouxls blocks Kris, Susie & Ralsei from getting into the cafe.
Unfortunately, I can't find footage of the text for interacting with that obstructive statue.
 
Imaginym said:
Lol. But on the off-chance you're not joking, what makes you so sure?
I mean, we're told "It's terrible... The butlers are all trapped in the cafe... Queen is nowhere to be found, and... With no one to defend it, a strange force has taken over the mansion!"

& Rouxls blocks Kris, Susie & Ralsei from getting into the cafe.
Unfortunately, I can't find footage of the text for interacting with that obstructive statue.
Click to expand...
Damn, these butlers's lifting strength SUCK, even Berdly can carry a 50 Ton statue of himself
 
Armorchompy said:
Eh, the whole fun gang had to fight the Queen (who had Berdly to be fair) while Kris by themselves could beat Spamton, I'd attribute that to some reality warping hax rather than AP
Click to expand...
Kris by themselves couldn't beat spamton, they needed noelle
Armorchompy said:
reality warping hax rather than AP
Click to expand...

Imo the likely thing is spamton has some form of reality warping (the paintings prove this), but I'm also wondering if he gets more powerful the more money he has, the more power he has. The reason I think this, is because the only difference between a snowgrave route and a normal route in relation to spamton, is the fact that you buy the ring from him. What's the purpose of this if he could just use the ring to get through the castle? I propose that the purpose was to get Kromer, which make him stronger.
 
Livinmeme said:
Or that is just PIS
Click to expand...
...
This is a dangerous argument. Berdly carrying a 50-ton statue as a gag vs Butlers being unable to push a stone statue as a integral part of the story.

The correct would be to assume Berdly is the outlier here, so I wouldn't use this argument.
 
Drhorrible100 said:
Kris by themselves couldn't beat spamton, they needed noelle
Click to expand...
Yes they could. Spamton healed every turn and used statistics amplification to overpower Kris. Normal Spamton NEO can be beaten.
Drhorrible100 said:
Imo the likely thing is spamton has some form of reality warping (the paintings prove this), but I'm also wondering if he gets more powerful the more money he has, the more power he has. The reason I think this, is because the only difference between a snowgrave route and a normal route in relation to spamton, is the fact that you buy the ring from him. What's the purpose of this if he could just use the ring to get through the castle? I propose that the purpose was to get Kromer, which make him stronger.
Click to expand...
... Money making you stronger, does that hax have a name or-
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Damn, these butlers's lifting strength SUCK, even Berdly can carry a 50 Ton statue of himself
Click to expand...
Lol. I mean, we never actually SEE Berdly lift it, & it seems unlikely that he did carry it during the roller coaster scene, because of, for one, stating that he had no strength left, & in the neutral route, having a damaged arm.

Also, while I was looking through dialogue (I was searching for statue-related dialogue because I couldn't find any text for interacting with Rouxls in front of the cafe.), I noticed that Sweet Cap'n Cakes have dialogue, too:

https://deltarune.fandom.com/wiki/Sweet_Cap'n_Cakes#K_K.27s_Box
  • K_K: Did you like the big statue?
  • Cap'n: Building it sucked!
  • Sweet: Took a lot of scrap.
  • Sweet: The other job we did was way better!
  • K_K: It was big.
  • Cap'n: It's gonna blow your mind!
  • K_K: It was big.
I did find this dialogue, though:
  • Queen told us to take out the garbage.
  • I'd never seen a garbage that big before.
  • Except for the dancing garbage that lives in the trash heap.
  • It was a horrible statue, but the execution was very good.
  • I would give it 2 stars...
  • One to cover each of the nipples.
  • It's in a better place now.
  • Really, where!?
Unfortunately, I found that 2nd set of dialogue in a text dump, so I'm not sure which NPC says it, or if it's even all from 1 NPC. I'm very sure it's a Swatchling, though, given the manner of speaking.

Anyway, the bad news is:
Berdly's golden statue was apparently made of "a lot of scrap", which puts it being 100% gold (Or even real gold at all.) into question, when we don't see much evidence of gold being in the city, let alone considered scrap.
The good news is: 1 or more Swatchlings were able to carry it.
The bad news is: I dunno who would scale to Swatchlings, nor why, since practically no characters physically overpower them; Most characters attack with bladed weapons, & the Swatchlings themselves use their "bullets" & such projeciles. Also, if the statue isn't solid gold, depending on the scrap it was made from, it might indeed be lighter than Petrified Rouxls, which might explain it trapping the Swatchlings in the Cafe.
Drhorrible100 said:
Imo the likely thing is spamton has some form of reality warping (the paintings prove this),
Click to expand...
Spamton's takeover is described by 1 NPC as "a strange force".
But that's the same NPC who when at the dinner party, The Hacker in a wig tells her he's a hacker & "to keep it on the download" IIRC, she apparently doesn't know what to do with this information. I'd take what she says at face value, at least, but beyond that, I'm not sure she's the most knowledgeable.
Drhorrible100 said:
but I'm also wondering if he gets more powerful the more money he has, the more power he has. The reason I think this, is because the only difference between a snowgrave route and a normal route in relation to spamton, is the fact that you buy the ring from him. What's the purpose of this if he could just use the ring to get through the castle? I propose that the purpose was to get Kromer, which make him stronger.
Click to expand...
In Base Spamton's boss battle, you actually lose progress (Or don't gain progress.) towards Sparing him if you try to give him your money; The Check even tells you to make a deal, but don't give him your money.
He also tells Kris he didn't become a salesman for the money & was never in it for the money, but the freedom, apparently. Not to mention, with many battles giving out several tens or even a couple hundreds of Dark Dollars, yet Base Spamton probably will only take $20.... Plus, he only takes money for you making bad dialogue choices or getting hit; If Kris doesn't get hit & makes no wrong dialogue choices, Spamton takes $0 Dark Dollars from Kris.

I don't think money's that important to Spamton.

As for the Thorn Ring, his Weird/SnowGrave Route Spamton Neo Battle also tells us he didn't sell it for the money:
https://deltarune.fandom.com/wiki/Spamton#Quotes
  • I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN YOU WOULD HAVE USED MY [Ring] FOR [Evil]... OH, [ RIGHT ]. THAT'S WHY I SOLD IT TO YOU[Flying Heads]
  • Earlier, he says: I GAVE YOU MY [Commemorative Ring] FOR THE PRICE OF [My Favorite Year]! [Chained Heart]
So the price was 1997 because it's his favorite year. The ring is "commemorative". & he sold it to Kris because he expected them to use it for evil, although he ends up being sickened by Kris's later behaviour.
  • NO, I GET IT! IT'S YOU AND THAT [Hochi Mama]! YOU'VE BEEN [Making], HAVEN'T YOU! [Gripping Phones]
  • YOU'VE BEEN MAKING [Hyperlink Blocked]!
  • AND NOW THAT YOU HAVE YOUR OWN SUPPLY, YOU DON'T NEED ME!!! [Eyes, Nose, and Mouth]
  • I WAS TOO [Trusting] TOO [Honest]. I'VE ALWAYS BEEN A MAN OF THE [PIPIS]. A REAL [PIPIS] PERSON! [Chained Heart]
  • YOU THINK MAKING [Frozen Chicken] WITH YOUR [Side Chick] IS GONNA LET YOU DRINK UP THAT [Sweet, Sweet] [Freedom Sauce]? [Eyes, Nose, and Mouth]
  • WELL, YOU'RE [$!$!] RIGHT! BUT DON'T BLAME ME WHEN YOU'RE [Crying] IN A [Broken Home] WISHING YOU LET YOUR OLD PAL SPAMTON [Kill You] [Gripping Phones]
What he seems to be saying is he intended to supply Kris with something, once Kris went evil after acquiring the ring, but to Spamton's surprise & disgust, they've been "making" what he intended to supply to them with themselves, & he thinks Kris thinks they don't need it. Maybe it's the "Freedom Sauce"? Who knows.
GodlyCharmander said:
... Money making you stronger, does that hax have a name or-
Click to expand...
"Empowerment is the ability to strengthen oneself due to various circumstances and outside forces that may or may not be under their control. Unlike Statistics Amplification, empowerment is often involuntary and inherent to each character rather than an activated ability."
Or it could be Statistics Amplification, maybe?
GodlyCharmander said:
He beat Spamton NEO, and a scripted scene happened.
He can beat him normally, is what I mean.

Kris scales to Spamton NEO, but he doesn't scale to his Bluelight Specil self.
Click to expand...
Well, it does say "Spamton Neo's ATTACK dropped!
Spamton Neo's DEFENSE rose drastically!"
So he has lower ATTACK with Bluelight Specil. Though, he only attacks with Pipis in that state, & IDK if those are affected by his ATTACK or if they have their own.
 
Last edited:
Pesky Spamton dialogue having [ RIGHT ] without spaces screwed up a bunch of formatting. Cleaned up my post a little & put some of the dialogue copy-pastas in spoiler brackets to try & make my post a little shorter. Pardon me & that, please.
 
Imaginym said:
https://deltarune.fandom.com/wiki/Sweet_Cap'n_Cakes#K_K.27s_Box
  • K_K: Did you like the big statue?
  • Cap'n: Building it sucked!
  • Sweet: Took a lot of scrap.
  • Sweet: The other job we did was way better!
  • K_K: It was big.
  • Cap'n: It's gonna blow your mind!
  • K_K: It was big.

Anyway, the bad news is:
Berdly's golden statue was apparently made of "a lot of scrap", which puts it being 100% gold (Or even real gold at all.) into question, when we don't see much evidence of gold being in the city, let alone considered scrap.
The good news is: 1 or more Swatchlings were able to carry it.
The bad news is: I dunno who would scale to Swatchlings, nor why, since practically no characters physically overpower them; Most characters attack with bladed weapons, & the Swatchlings themselves use their "bullets" & such projeciles. Also, if the statue isn't solid gold, depending on the scrap it was made from, it might indeed be lighter than Petrified Rouxls, which might explain it trapping the Swatchlings in the Cafe.
Click to expand...
Using solid waste density, the statue would weight 932.94kg, nearly a ton. Not bad. That's still Class 1
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Using solid waste density, the statue would weight 932.94kg, nearly a ton. Not bad. That's still Class 1
Click to expand...
Nice! Didn't even know we had density values for solid waste, but thanks for doing the maths. Solid waste = Scrap metal?

I wish I knew which Swatchling said the dialogue so we could figure out carried it. Also, anyone have a Weird/SnowGrave route file to check the Rouxls statue in front of the Cafe?
 
Last edited:
Ah. I found some info on where the Swatchlings who talked about moving Berdly's statue were!

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/Deltarune
  • If you back-track to where Berdly's giant gold statue originally was after entering Queen's mansion, you'll find two Swatchlings sweeping up, stating Queen ordered them to throw that giant "garbage" away (explaining how it ended up in the toilet).
So it was probably just those 1 or 2 Swatchlings who moved it, & they hauled it from where it originally was, to... the third floor in the castle? A toilet is a strange place to put garbage, but it seems like the facts speak for themselves, lol.
They also had to lift it enough to place it in the toilet, & flip it over, since it's in the toilet headfirst; Upside-down.
 
Adem_Warlock69 said:
Queen believed that Kris could survive her car exploding. Blowing up a car is 48,471,794.25 Joules (9-A)
Click to expand...
Eh, she says "I was just concerned because it hadn't exploded yet", & that concern is why she told everyone to get out.
Plus, she calls her exploding glass her "extra dangerous glass" after throwing it & seeing it blow up, showing she thinks explosions are dangerous.

I'd say she definitely thinks being in an exploding car is a threat to Kris. She doesn't say she thinks it's a lethal threat, but that could be assumed.

Whether Kris would live or not, I dunno what dialogue implies she thinks Kris would survive it.
 
Hmm, I was thinking about calculating their Roller Coaster crash but it'll probably give us irrelevant results (low end Wall Level)
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Hmm, I was thinking about calculating their Roller Coaster crash but it'll probably give us irrelevant results (low end Wall Level)
Click to expand...
Didn't the story also make a point of having their landing cushioned by the garbage they landed on? (Admittedly, I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't THAT soft. Susie was at least injured, somehow, by the fall.)
 
Sorry, been busy, I'll update the OP later, and provide a summary of what has been accepted/rejected.

I'm still rooting for the Fun Gang scaling directly to the mechs though, as they take no less than 3 direct attacks from it and are fine afterwards. It seems Giga Queen merely had a size advantage (and a lifting strength advantage, given she can restrain them with a single hand) that required them to use the mech against her.
 
ShockingPsychic said:
Sorry, been busy, I'll update the OP later, and provide a summary of what has been accepted/rejected.

I'm still rooting for the Fun Gang scaling directly to the mechs though, as they take no less than 3 direct attacks from it and are fine afterwards. It seems Giga Queen merely had a size advantage (and a lifting strength advantage, given she can restrain them with a single hand) that required them to use the mech against her.
Click to expand...
Nah. Thinking about it, this makes no sense. The soul directs damage to the being it's supposed to represent. It damaged Susie despise the fact it was Kris' "SOUL", and Toby even pointed out the SOUL came out of the room where Kris' is. No one took an attack from GIGA Queen, ever.
 
Spamton NEO talks about wanting to take your soul, to 'be bigger'

can Spamton get SOUL Absorption for saying that he can take your soul? or is too vague for him to have it?
 
Energy Projection (Can shoot what are likely energy based projectiles),
The justification link's video is "REVISED GLOBAL TIMELINE - DBS: SUPER HERO DELAYS SUPER VEGETA? | Dragon Ball Z Dokkan Battle"

Did Berdly sneak onto the Wiki & edit his own profile for this part or something?

Also, quoting the Deltarune Wiki about Berdly's 1st & 2nd battle:
  • Holy Halbird! Grant me strength! [Spear attack]
  • Holy Halbird! Grant me strength! [Red line attack]
On his profile:
Weapon Creation (Can create his axe and change its shape)
The scan shows him changing it into a spear, & on the assumption this isn't just him rotating it to an angle so that looks like a spear to the camera....
Well, a "halberd" is defined as "a combined spear and battleaxe."

Either way, it feels kind of wrong to call for his Powers & Abilities to call it an axe (It's a halberd Holy Halbird), whether or not he can change its shape.

Resistance to Soul Manipulation (Can resist magic attacks capable of directly harming one's soul)
Which attacks that harm the SOUL harm him? Do we treat Rude Buster, IceShock, or the FIGHT attacks as Soul Manipulation? (SnowGrave is also done with magic, but it One-Shots Berdly.)

The Lifting Strength section may need to change soon, given that we never see him directly lift the statue, & Sweet Cap'n Cakes tells us it was made a lot of scrap, & Swatchlings moved it because they were told to move garbage, implying it's made of scrap metal, rather than gold. (Plus, calling gold scrap would be weird, especially when we don't see much at all.)

Stamina probably needs a justification; We know at least that he becomes exhausted after the battle with Kris & Noelle.

Telekinesis for his A+ Paper Attack is a bit weird, & may need to be Paper Manipulation instead, or both Paper Manip & TK, assuming it's not just a Soul Manipulation attack.
Weird/SnowGrave route claims he has a weakness to Ice in his Check, but this may be debatable.

His Resistance to Mind Manipulation justification is a bit weird because he pulls the plug off after reaching max looseness, which wire cutting & the Loosen ACT & R-Action & S-Action contribute to. I can kinda see it working.

Also, is "Air Manipulation (Can create tornado-like winds)" correct? He makes lots of small tornado projectiles, but the wording the P&A gives him sounds like he's producing fierce winds in the battlefield.

Pardon any bother from me, please.
 
Imaginym said:
Resistance to Soul Manipulation (Can resist magic attacks capable of directly harming one's soul)
Which attacks that harm the SOUL harm him? Do we treat Rude Buster, IceShock, or the FIGHT attacks as Soul Manipulation? (SnowGrave is also done with magic, but it One-Shots Berdly.)
Click to expand...
Jevil also has it, so I think we treat Rude Buster as Soul Manipulation
Imaginym said:
His Resistance to Mind Manipulation justification is a bit weird because he pulls the plug off after reaching max looseness, which wire cutting & the Loosen ACT & R-Action & S-Action contribute to. I can kinda see it working.
Click to expand...
He can pull Queen's control plug off himself without any help if you FIGHT Queen instead of loosening up the wire
 
Adem_Warlock69 said:
Jevil also has it, so I think we treat Rude Buster as Soul Manipulation

He can pull Queen's control plug off himself without any help if you FIGHT Queen instead of loosening up the wire
Click to expand...
Fair enough, I guess. I guess we treat Magic as Soul Manipulation in Deltarune because... monsters use that & humans, can't?
IIRC, Monsters being/using Magic was an Undertale thing, & Ralsei's Tutorial shows bullets damage the SOUL, so... bullets must be Magic, which makes the attacks monsters (& also Darkners) use Magic, & thus, Soul Manipulation?
Do I have that right?

Oh also, Berdly's profile says he doesn't have blood.
Resistance to Blood Manipulation (Monsters were stated to not have blood, however this is contadicted by Susie thinking everyone bleeds)

If this is with the rabbit person in the window at the building Kris can talk to in Hometown, isn't their dialogue just "What's it like to be made out of blood?", wouldn't that just mean they assume humans are wholely made out of blood? Or is there a different statement?
 
Imaginym said:
If this is with the rabbit person in the window at the building Kris can talk to in Hometown, isn't their dialogue just "What's it like to be made out of blood?", wouldn't that just mean they assume humans are wholely made out of blood? Or is there a different statement?
Click to expand...
Yes, Monsters not having blood comes from that rabbit asking Kris "Does it hurt to be made of blood?" Kris also did some prank using ketchup to seem like they were bleeding, which I assume requires monsters to not know much about blood to work. So it's rather unclear.
 
Imaginym said:
Energy Projection (Can shoot what are likely energy based projectiles),
The justification link's video is "REVISED GLOBAL TIMELINE - DBS: SUPER HERO DELAYS SUPER VEGETA? | Dragon Ball Z Dokkan Battle"

Did Berdly sneak onto the Wiki & edit his own profile for this part or something?

Also, quoting the Deltarune Wiki about Berdly's 1st & 2nd battle:
  • Holy Halbird! Grant me strength! [Spear attack]
  • Holy Halbird! Grant me strength! [Red line attack]
On his profile:
Weapon Creation (Can create his axe and change its shape)
The scan shows him changing it into a spear, & on the assumption this isn't just him rotating it to an angle so that looks like a spear to the camera....
Well, a "halberd" is defined as "a combined spear and battleaxe."

Either way, it feels kind of wrong to call for his Powers & Abilities to call it an axe (It's a halberd Holy Halbird), whether or not he can change its shape.
Click to expand...
Agree with everything here
Imaginym said:
Resistance to Soul Manipulation (Can resist magic attacks capable of directly harming one's soul)
Which attacks that harm the SOUL harm him? Do we treat Rude Buster, IceShock, or the FIGHT attacks as Soul Manipulation? (SnowGrave is also done with magic, but it One-Shots Berdly.)
Click to expand...
He can take hits from a Darkner (Ralsei), and much like any other Darkner, any given attack from Ralsei harms the SOUL directly.
Imaginym said:
The Lifting Strength section may need to change soon, given that we never see him directly lift the statue, & Sweet Cap'n Cakes tells us it was made a lot of scrap, & Swatchlings moved it because they were told to move garbage, implying it's made of scrap metal, rather than gold. (Plus, calling gold scrap would be weird, especially when we don't see much at all.)
Click to expand...
It is Class 10 (using alluminum), which is far more reasonable. Also, how would he carry it around? Maybe his Telekinesis?
Imaginym said:
His Resistance to Mind Manipulation justification is a bit weird because he pulls the plug off after reaching max looseness, which wire cutting & the Loosen ACT & R-Action & S-Action contribute to. I can kinda see it working.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that shouldn't be there whatsoever.
Imaginym said:
Also, is "Air Manipulation (Can create tornado-like winds)" correct? He makes lots of small tornado projectiles, but the wording the P&A gives him sounds like he's producing fierce winds in the battlefield.
Click to expand...
It is correct. He is producing winds in the battlefield, the word "fierce" came out of your interpretation, despise the wording never implying that and giving a visual source.
 
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