Lou_change
He/Him- 10,124
- 5,386
Are we sure that the context proves he carried it even then no one is shown to have better lifting strength than him or equal.
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
This is very funnie, this can be comparable tô orher characters?Are we sure that the context proves he carried it even then no one is shown to have better lifting strength than him or equal.
Why?This is very funnie, this can be comparable tô orher characters?
Just aking, like "should be comparable to Berdly who could carry a golden statue without efort"Why?
In the end of the pacifist charapter he gives the statue to create the trash machine, so he was carring it him selfI mean probably be he ripped off that face socket thing the only character shown capable of such even then we need proof of the fact he was carrying it around by himself.
Even if it was in a hammer space, he needed to take it out of the hammer space to put in the construction of the trash machineFair but it was in hammer space I guess it is fine.
It's show that they have more abillyts in the dark word then in the dark word, so he having problens carring books in the light word isn't a contradiction... And the last time we saw that statue beafore that wasn't in a toilet with It head stuck? This would be a kinda big distance just be the fusionism gravitation (and even if people gave non material things, all of them had that things with them at that time tô give to the trash machine)I dunno about it being Hammer Space. It being moved might just have been Fusionism; The objects gravitating towards each other as part of the combining process.
Not to mention, Berdly himself calls it "a splendid base", meaning it's what's being built around, so I'm unsure it was being moved that much. (Plus, it was nearby already, having somehow been placed upside down in a castle toilet recently.)
Not to mention, the Thrash Machine (Mech) has, among other parts, the original Thrash Machine itself, the Hacker's finest JPEGs, potentially the original Starman, & several things from whatever enemies you recruit that probably aren't physical, but nonetheless, it's weird.
Maybe it's hammerspace, maybe it's a product of the Fusionism, or maybe Berdly -Who's other best lifting feat in the Dark World is his halbird, & who prides himself on brain over brawn & in the Light World, can't carry some books with only one arm.- really did not only bring it onto a flying roller coaster that should hardly fit it, but lifted it so it could be amassed several tens of meters above or below the nearest flat ground?
Pardon me, please. I'm just a little incredulous. Sorry, all.
Characters in the Dark World are generally more capable than their Light World counterparts, I agree about that.It's show that they have more abillyts in the dark word then in the dark word, so he having problens carring books in the light word isn't a contradiction...
Indeed, when last we saw the statue, it was in a toilet in Queen's Castle/Mansion, with its head stuck. On the third floor (Of a 4 floor building.), if I'm not mistaken.And the last time we saw that statue beafore that wasn't in a toilet with It head stuck?
Saying it's an oddly big distance for the fusionism gravitation feels kind of weird; Keep in mind, Giga Queen is tens of meters tall, & Thrash Machine isn't much smaller. IIRC, they stand as tall or taller than most buildings.This would be a kinda big distance just be the fusionism gravitation
Not entirely verifiable, given we can't understand what Tasque & Maice say for their contributions. & some of their contributions are of questionable success, Poppup gives "Happi Bravary", Ambyu-Lance gives "flashing lights", Virovirokun gives "tender loving care!" & it's difficult to determine if the Thrash Machine mech actually RECEIVED those.(and even if people gave non material things, all of them had that things with them at that time tô give to the trash machine)
The fun gang esse just in top of one another, the fusion was made around the fun gang T posing giga QueenSaying it's an oddly big distance for the fusionism gravitation feels kind of weird; Keep in mind, Giga Queen is tens of meters tall, & Thrash Machine isn't much smaller. IIRC, they stand as tall or taller than most buildings.
This is a accutuale good pointAnyway, it also just doesn't make sense for Berdly; On Neutral Route, he hurts his arm when getting free of Queen's wire.
Plus, he has dialogue saying "My energy is still too low to help you", implying his arm is still injured, something that persists when you return to The Light World.
So it'd be even weirder if he lifted it when he's explicitly low on energy &/or has a damaged arm, & we don't even see HOW he moves it.
Personally I accept the proposal that a single level up isn't enough to warrant a separate key, so Chapter 1 characters will likely get upgraded too.
My opinionlook, I just have a problem with monsters from part 1 remaining 9-B, Spantamob(base) has a dialogue referring to being weaker than Jevil, if monsters from part 2 are all 8-B, that would include Spantamon( base), so this upgrade would be valid for the Jevil and consequently for the other monsters from part 1
Yes, The Delta Warriors aren't very tall standing like that, but what I was saying is the Golden Statue IS big, & it's on a roller coaster moving towards where the fall trajectory of The Delta Warriors & the roller coaster intersect, which reduces the distance the statue has to move if the statue is already on the coaster.The fun gang esse just in top of one another, the fusion was made around the fun gang T posing giga Queen
....Are you saying to scale Chapter 2 enemies to 8-B (Which comes from Giga Queen, you know.) & then scale Base Spamton to that & scale Jevil & scale that to Chapter 1 enemies?JustANormalLemon said:
My opinion:
look, I just have a problem with monsters from part 1 remaining 9-B, Spantamob(base) has a dialogue referring to being weaker than Jevil, if monsters from part 2 are all 8-B, that would include Spantamon( base), so this upgrade would be valid for the Jevil and consequently for the other monsters from part 1
I'm just answering Shocking Psychic, that if we do as he said we would have to climb to all monsters, not that I agree....Are you saying to scale Chapter 2 enemies to 8-B (Which comes from Giga Queen, you know.) & then scale Base Spamton to that & scale Jevil & scale that to Chapter 1 enemies?
No.
The Delta Warriors aren't a match for Giga Queen if they don't have the Thrash Machine mech, so if THEY'RE not comparable, it's absurd to say the Chapter 2 enemies (Who I'd assume are weaker than the Delta Warriors.) are, & I'm pretty sure backscaling Jevil & Chapter 1 enemies to Giga Queen is circular scaling, since it could lead to scaling Ch1 Delta Warriors to Ch2 Delta Warriors.
Spamton Base does seem to be weaker than Jevil, but even ignoring Weird Route Kris Soloing him (WR Kris is likely stronger than non-WR Kris.), Spamton Neo's dialogue for becoming Neo implies he didn't reach his expectations (Asking "Why am I not big enough?", begging Kris for help & deciding he wants their SOULs, despite already getting the machine artifact he was obsessively praying to.), about becoming stronger....
So it's questionable if he surpassed Jevil. & surpassing Queen or Giga Queen is doubtful because Spamton & Queen don't really ever directly interact, nor does Spamton ever mention her, let alone imply he's going to surpass her, or even imply he knows about GQ.
MAYBE Jevil should scale above Solo non-WR Ch2 Kris for being stronger than Base Spamton, who might be comparable to Solo non-WR Ch2 Kris, but I don't see any reason to upgrade Ch1 enemies other than maybe Ch1 feat recalcs. (& maybe scaling King to his apparent ex-wife, Queen, but IDK if their life was that bad that they fought enough to harm each other significantly.)
Spantamon NEO is at most equal to Jevil in power or a low level, the rest I fully agreeYes, The Delta Warriors aren't very tall standing like that, but what I was saying is the Golden Statue IS big, & it's on a roller coaster moving towards where the fall trajectory of The Delta Warriors & the roller coaster intersect, which reduces the distance the statue has to move if the statue is already on the coaster.
....Are you saying to scale Chapter 2 enemies to 8-B (Which comes from Giga Queen, you know.) & then scale Base Spamton to that & scale Jevil & scale that to Chapter 1 enemies?
No.
The Delta Warriors aren't a match for Giga Queen if they don't have the Thrash Machine mech, so if THEY'RE not comparable, it's absurd to say the Chapter 2 enemies (Who I'd assume are weaker than the Delta Warriors.) are, & I'm pretty sure backscaling Jevil & Chapter 1 enemies to Giga Queen is circular scaling, since it could lead to scaling Ch1 Delta Warriors to Ch2 Delta Warriors.
Spamton Base does seem to be weaker than Jevil, but even ignoring Weird Route Kris Soloing him (WR Kris is likely stronger than non-WR Kris.), Spamton Neo's dialogue for becoming Neo implies he didn't reach his expectations (Asking "Why am I not big enough?", begging Kris for help & deciding he wants their SOULs, despite already getting the machine artifact he was obsessively praying to.), about becoming stronger....
So it's questionable if he surpassed Jevil. & surpassing Queen or Giga Queen is doubtful because Spamton & Queen don't really ever directly interact, nor does Spamton ever mention her, let alone imply he's going to surpass her, or even imply he knows about GQ.
MAYBE Jevil should scale above Solo non-WR Ch2 Kris for being stronger than Base Spamton, who might be comparable to Solo non-WR Ch2 Kris, but I don't see any reason to upgrade Ch1 enemies other than maybe Ch1 feat recalcs. (& maybe scaling King to his apparent ex-wife, Queen, but IDK if their life was that bad that they fought enough to harm each other significantly.)
I hate saying that I disagree when you agreed with me, but it's my opinion that he could have surpassed Jevil, just not by as much as he aspired to.Spantamon NEO is at most equal to Jevil in power or a low level, the rest I fully agree
I haven't checked for any details in the dialogue, but King & Queen implies some kind of relationship as monarchs. They both consider Lancer their son, don't they? & Queen asks King if he wants anything when he leaves, to which he says pistachios, IIRC. That sounds like more than friendly rivals, IMHO.And I'm pretty sure the king and queen never had any romantic relationship, at best friendly rivals
the queen only decided that Lancer would be her son at the end of deltarune chapter 2, the king himself is confused by this decision, maybe they're friends even then, but they don't seem to have any romanticism between the 2I haven't checked for any details in the dialogue, but King & Queen implies some kind of relationship as monarchs. They both consider Lancer their son, don't they? & Queen asks King if he wants anything when he leaves, to which he says pistachios, IIRC. That sounds like more than friendly rivals, IMHO.
Them being romantic is questionable, though, & it is possible that they took care of Lancer together, in a non-romantic way at one point. Maybe they pulled him out of a ditch or something.
Spanton said that he is weaker than the Jevil and that it would be equal (or comparable, I don't remember) with what he was looking for, he said that unlike the Jevil he would not only stay at this level of power and would try to gain even more with what he had. (if that makes any sense)I hate saying that I disagree when you agreed with me, but it's my opinion that he could have surpassed Jevil, just not by as much as he aspired to.
But I guess "equal or lower" might make more sense if he's asking "Why am I not big enough"?
Thanks for this clarification.the queen only decided that Lancer would be her son at the end of deltarune chapter 2, the king himself is confused by this decision, maybe they're friends even then, but they don't seem to have any romanticism between the 2
Scans of this dialogue, please?Spanton said that he is weaker than the Jevil and that it would be equal (or comparable, I don't remember) with what he was looking for, he said that unlike the Jevil he would not only stay at this level of power and would try to gain even more with what he had. (if that makes any sense)
one secThanks for this clarification.
Scans of this dialogue, please?
The Delta Warriors defeat Spamton, but they're also stronger than in Chapter 1 (Because they levelled up from the Fountain, & possibly also violence; Spamton Neo can be fought even if you don't go full pacifist, IIRC, & violence gives stat boosts.), so that contributed to it.A very simple way to see it is like this, the fun gang managed to defeat Spanton, while against the Jevil they just tired him out, showing that the Jevil is much stronger than shown (especially with the Jevil seeing that fight as just a game)
Yes, I was wrong about the live spam dialogThe Delta Warriors defeat Spamton, but they're also stronger than in Chapter 1 (Because they levelled up from the Fountain, & possibly also violence; Spamton Neo can be fought even if you don't go full pacifist, IIRC, & violence gives stat boosts.), so that contributed to it.
Plus, Jevil says he'll sleep for 100 years. That's pretty dang tired. & Spamton is nonfatally defeated even if you FIGHT him.
As for the dialogue where Spamton talks about surpassing Jevil:
(Also, maybe it refers to popularity/success, since Jevil was The Court Jester or Magician, IIRC. But it could also be power, & I think it being power is an agreeable interpretation, too.)
- I USED TO BE NOTHING BUT THE E_MAIL GUY, NOW I'M THE [[It Burns! Ow! Stop! Help Me! It Burns!]] GUY!
- [[Amazed at thi5 amazing transformation? You too can]] HAVE A [[Communion]] WITH [[Unintelligble Laughter]]
- SOON I'LL EVEN SURPASS THAT DAMNED [[Clown Around Town!]]
- BUT UNLIKE HIM I'M GONNA [[Shoot For the Sky!]] AND GET ON THE PATH TO ...
- [[The Big One]]
- I'LL GET SO. I'LL GET SO. I'LL GET SO. I'LL GET SO. I'LL GET SO. I'LL GET SO.
- [[Hyperlink blocked.]]
He also has the dialogue:
Which would be a bit weird to say if he considered Jevil's power, as opposed to behaviour or maybe a perceivedly unjustified success, as what he envied. Ex: Getting sick because Jevil's success or behaviour disgusts him makes more sense than him feeling sick with disgust about how strong Jevil is.
- [Clown]!? NO!!! I FEEL SICK!!!
But yeah. Chapter 1 Delta Warriors are only strong enough to make Jevil sleep for a century. Chapter 2 Delta Warriors are stronger, & enough so to beat Spamton, who took a form he acted like would let him surpass Jevil. In both cases, The Delta Warriors' opponent lives, & turns themselves into equipment.
Usually. by Delta Warriors, I mean Kris, Susie & Ralsei, since they're who the prophecy mentions.a question, Delta warriors = Fun gang?
okUsually. by Delta Warriors, I mean Kris, Susie & Ralsei, since they're who the prophecy mentions.
(Though, I can't remember where exactly the exact term was first used, since it's not in the prophecy.)
Jevil doesn't even go to sleep, he just transforms into Devilsknife that he gives to Kris after defeating him, he's still awake as when you show Devilskinife to Noele she realizes it's smiling at her.The Delta Warriors defeat Spamton, but they're also stronger than in Chapter 1 (Because they levelled up from the Fountain, & possibly also violence; Spamton Neo can be fought even if you don't go full pacifist, IIRC, & violence gives stat boosts.), so that contributed to it.
Plus, Jevil says he'll sleep for 100 years. That's pretty dang tired. & Spamton is nonfatally defeated even if you FIGHT him.
As for the dialogue where Spamton talks about surpassing Jevil:
(Also, maybe it refers to popularity/success, since Jevil was The Court Jester or Magician, IIRC. But it could also be power, & I think it being power is an agreeable interpretation, too.)
- I USED TO BE NOTHING BUT THE E_MAIL GUY, NOW I'M THE [[It Burns! Ow! Stop! Help Me! It Burns!]] GUY!
- [[Amazed at thi5 amazing transformation? You too can]] HAVE A [[Communion]] WITH [[Unintelligble Laughter]]
- SOON I'LL EVEN SURPASS THAT DAMNED [[Clown Around Town!]]
- BUT UNLIKE HIM I'M GONNA [[Shoot For the Sky!]] AND GET ON THE PATH TO ...
- [[The Big One]]
- I'LL GET SO. I'LL GET SO. I'LL GET SO. I'LL GET SO. I'LL GET SO. I'LL GET SO.
- [[Hyperlink blocked.]]
He also has the dialogue:
Which would be a bit weird to say if he considered Jevil's power, as opposed to behaviour or maybe a perceivedly unjustified success, as what he envied. Ex: Getting sick because Jevil's success or behaviour disgusts him makes more sense than him feeling sick with disgust about how strong Jevil is.
- [Clown]!? NO!!! I FEEL SICK!!!
But yeah. Chapter 1 Delta Warriors are only strong enough to make Jevil sleep for a century. Chapter 2 Delta Warriors are stronger, & enough so to beat Spamton, who took a form he acted like would let him surpass Jevil. In both cases, The Delta Warriors' opponent lives, & turns themselves into equipment.
An unrelated but related comment, Kris shouldn't have "Multiple Selves" as a power as he constantly switches between player control and self control
ok, i thought you win devilkin both ways... well then it makes sense for him to say he's going to sleep for so long, for this ending you have to spread sleep manipulation on jevil like you don't have a tomorrowWell okay, minor correction:
This is for Pacifying, not for FIGHTing him. & you don't get the Devilsknife if you PACIFY him.
- WHAT FUN!! I'M EXHAUSTED!! YOU KIDS TIRED ME UP!! NOW I WILL SLEEP FOR THE OTHER 100 YEARS. UNFORTUNATELY, YOU KIDS CANNOT HAVE SUCH A PLEASANT DREAM. FROM NOW, A NIGHTMARE WILL AWAKEN IN YOUR HEARTS. IN THE SHADOW OF THE KNIGHT'S HAND... LIGHTNERS, CAN YOU STOP IT? UEE HEE HEE! EITHER WAY, A MISCHIEF-MISCHIEF, A CHAOS-CHAOS...! LIGHTNERS! FROM INSIDE YOUR LITTLE CELL!! TAKE THIS AND DO YOUR STRONGEST---!
- HA HA HA. WHAT FUN!!! YOU'RE FAST, FAST, STRONG, STRONG. BUT THERE ARE YET FASTER, YET STRONGER. THE HAND OF THE KNIGHT IS DRIFTING FORWARD. SOON, THE "QUEEN" RETURNS, AND HELL'S ROAR BUBBLES FROM THE DEPTHS... LIGHTNERS, CAN YOU STOP IT? UEE HEE HEE! EITHER WAY, A MISCHIEF-MISCHIEF, A CHAOS-CHAOS...! LIGHTNERS! FROM INSIDE YOUR LITTLE CELL!! TAKE ME AND DO YOUR STRONGEST---!
So we can probably assume he doesn't go to sleep if you FIGHT him, since he doesn't say so. Which is also a problem for arguing Jevil's stronger than Spamton for taking hits & only falling asleep then turning himself into equipment when he admits defeat, as opposed to... not falling asleep & turning into equipment anyway upon admitting defeat?
Either way, The Delta Warriors are stronger in Ch2 than Ch1, & neither Jevil nor Spamton Neo are killed or destroyed, even if you FIGHT them, with Jevil only becoming tired through Pacifying him.
I would say multiple minds, the Player is considered Kris' mistress both in the game and in his profile (as he is said to survive without a soul) but decisions taken by the player are sometimes opposite to what Kris wants (like when you call him Noele at WR and Kris just whispers her name or when you don't answer susie while answering the question of who you would take to the festival that Susie did, which Kris just says something comprehensive instead of actually answering), other examples are shown in Kris' game leaving the Player's control to act on his own, but the best thing in my opinion is after you fight Spanton in PR, where Kris is very bad after the fight, possibly identifying himself as the Player's puppetMultiple Selves
Multiple Selves is the ability which allows to have several different entities existing within one being. They can either be minds, souls, living organisms or even combinations of these types. This ability has a number of advantages and a number of shortcomings. Type 1 (Multiple Minds)...vsbattles.fandom.com
Maybe? Type 1 (Multiple Minds) is ambiguous because we don't know if it's a metafiction situation where the SOUL lacks a mind in itself & just does as we, the external player has it do.
Also, for Type 1: "in order to meet the requirements, their alternative identities must be extremely relevant, influent and grant them exceptional or supernatural powers, abilities and/or resistances, sometimes even affecting the very structure of their body."
Type 2 (Multiple Souls) is similarly ambiguous because we don't know if Kris has a Soul other than the one they pull out.
"Those who are possessed by one or multiple spiritual beings would fall under this category. In order to qualify as "selves" such spiritual beings should preferably be sentient, regardless of them being autonomous, dormant or forcibly controlled."
What if Kris doesn't have a Soul of their own, & the one they pull out & put back in themselves from time to time, which we control, is the one they were born/created with?
Is that still "Possession" if there's no other Soul we're seizing control of Kris from?
Feels kinda ambiguous.
thanks, and probably no one besides the trash machine is comparable to anything from the giga queen, so it would be a good thing to change that tooI'll try and update the OP today, given how it's kinda outdated.
He is? When? (Also, "mistress"?)I would say multiple minds, the Player is considered Kris' mistress both in the game and in his profile (as he is said to survive without a soul)
They* how about all the mentions that the heart-shaped object and kris' soul + the player will be shown to be the heart-shaped object (like when Kris removes us from it and locks it in the cage, we can still move around inside from the cageHe is? When? (Also, "mistress"?)
well, Kris alone doesn't have the ability to save or load time alone, that's directly as a result of the Player's feats, without the Player they couldn't do thatBut yes, Kris & the Player/SOUL do behave differently, I agree.
The problem besides Type 1 saying:
"in order to meet the requirements, their alternative identities must be extremely relevant, influent and grant them exceptional or supernatural powers, abilities and/or resistances, sometimes even affecting the very structure of their body."
....Is I'm not sure if Kris would still qualify for Type 1 if the SOUL is just a remotely controlled thing or an actual Soul. & if it is a Soul, we'd have to verify sentience & the matter of if Kris is possessed & if they have a Soul of their own other than the SOUL.