Probably a joke on the word "fire power". I mean, it makes perfect sense. 3x the power is not enough to one shot something (by our standards), but it's enough to overwhelm the weaker member. Going by the damage number alone, Kris and co would completely overwhelm Chapter 1 Enemies.
They are not 9-B+, they are 9-B, 0.0006 Tons is not more than halfway through the tier.
... I know it's a joke, but it's not a joke Spamton is making, his entire character is spouting random bullshit, so he probably believed it when he said that, which casts doubt on the statement.
I see, that is fair, but he is significantly stronger in this form, so his statement isn't far fetched at all. a "possibly" is still an option here, no?
True, it's possible.
Le OOF,
Thats better
I have applied these suggestions and made other improvements to the sandbox. Now I just need:
Why do you feel this way? After Spamton Neo powers up his DEF with his Blue Aura, Kris was doing fractions of what they would normally, & Noelle did MULTIPLE TENS OF TIMES more than that.
I feel awkward, bringing up yet another weakness of Noelle's, but....
What of? (I assume the Deltarune Fandom Wiki's gallery of Noelle's battle animations ain't useful here.)
Personality-wise, Noelle is shy & often too meek; It should speak volumes about the volume she speaks when ALPHYS has to tell her to speak up. She also seems to have trauma over the word "December", since that seems to be the full name of her sister.
That's what we call an outlier for the sake of the narrative. If that was the case, Noelle could effectively one shot any given enemy regardless of HP or DEF, which effectively is not the case.
Wait wasnt implied that noelle did go in a killing spree after he killed berdly? that would explain why even weakened can still OHKO spamton neo even after the defense buff
She says she doesn't feel good, & that she's going home. Queen mentioned Noelle's in no condition to help her [Queen] now, & that she needs rest. I doubt she went on a killing spree.
How do we know it wasn't Spamton Neo specifically? X-Slash is statedly physical, & is the same means of attack as the sword slash for the FIGHT command Spamton Neo was taking 10 damage from, whereas Noelle's Attacks are statedly Magic.
But that refutes the entire premise of she being able to do it because of Durability Negation. The only reason to believe that was because she did so nuch damage to Spamton, and now you're arguing it's a special case? It's a bit contradictory, and goes against your point, don't you think?
Durability Negation has zero relation to AP. If she can freeze them by bypassing their resistance, her AP should have zero bearings on whether she freezes them or not.
That just means she hit him harder.
Yeah. Her whole thing by now is that she grows stronger the more she kills and that she's basically in a trance during combat so her physical health isn't really important considering she already harms herself constantly in a fight.
You really should learn to summarize a little, it makes reading debates you were a part of slower than it should be. Just saying for future reference. The "standard tactics" summary is also wordy to the point of being unusable imo
Not really, it is still an outlier even considering her Accelerated Development. On the last fight, she does 250 damage tops with IceShock, and Spamton NEO, with far, FAR more Durability than Berdly or literally anything in chaoter 2, takes nearly triple this value, with each hit!
Again, it's a mental thing, in Undertale increase in power comes from your willingness to kill, it seems to be the same case here with Noelle considering how much her changing mental stats is highlighted. And you bet your ass that after killing her friend, someone she knew for years, instead of just fodder enemies, and convincing herself that was the right thing to do, that willingness to kill skyrocketed.
Actually, it's 670
Undertale is a Non-factor here. It was literally stated to have different rules, you cannot compare the two.
That is not a fact, she was described as in "no condition" to help Queen. She never, NEVER Grew in power offscreen, she is strictly dependent on the player to do so, and the only way she could have done it is by going on a killing spree.
Which makes no sense
Coming from Mr. "It's like Undertale"?
It was linear until then, the hell you're on about.
Ooh, I was talking about the last fight before the Berdly encounter. Didn't even know you could use it against him. Welp, not that my point changes much anyway.
Which is why I provided additional evidence as to why it's a mentality thing.
Why else would they grow stronger by making people run away from them lmao
Yes, by the Queen. Who is a very intelligent person that deeply understands Noelle and has never been wrong about anything ever. Considering Noelle does get up and help you, then clearly she was wrong to begin with. And no the player is the one that pushes her to kill, that doesn't mean she isn't capable of increasing her power if she did so by herself.
Is what you think, still not seeing any concrete proof.
I'll ignore this.
Ah yes, 100-ish to normal enemies -> 200-ish to normal enemies -> 670 to Berdly who is way stronger than normal enemies, clearly linear.
Again, that's assuming that she never fought anyone off-screen, baseless, and that there aren't any other factors contributing to Noelle's growth in power, which is blatantly ignoring the whole narrative point of the Weird Route.
I'll address this first. You're actually being arrogant while commiting the exact same thing you're accusing me of. Claming shit without concrete proof. Bullshit, now I'll get you all the proof you need, if you can't match it, this debate is over. Ffs.
No, the "additional evidence" is stand-alone. Undertale is a non-factor. Using it as a basis adds NOTHING to your point, WoG already stated it's two different things. I'll ignore every subsequent point where Undertale is addressed.
Did you not play the game? They grow stronger by breaking bonds, not their mentality. Their mentality is unchanged regardless of the route. (save Kris on Snowgrave Route as we can't really know how Kris is feeling, but based on the ending, they didn't think much of it)
We don't even know the circumstances to THAT, it was literally a "super natural" occurrence, Susie went to see Noelle in her room, and she couldn't have got past Susie, Queen and Ralsei (the latter were blocking the way) without any of them saying something afterwards. It was a super natural occurrence, not one to be taken literally.
That's baseless. Between Noelle staying in her room, which she was until right before the fight with the Queen, and she "showing up" on Spamton NEO's fight, you think she went out, killed some darkners, and went to help Kris? That is b u l l s h i t. Stop twisting the game to fit your argument, that's cringe bro.
Armor, you are being unreasonable, either that, or just plain unaware of how the story progresses;
Oh. My. *******. God.
I don't think you realize you've been pretty arrogant yourself in this threads my guy. Way more than me, in this last post. In fact, I'd advise you to tone it down, I don't think I ever went out of my way to actually insult you or belittle your knowledge of the game.
This was the only one that did so sure.
Right, I forgot about that. Perfect, it helps my argument! Noelle had a much stronger bond with Berdly than any of those random goons, so she got a stronger boost because of it. Case closed.
Clearly she did get past them, and you don't even get to talk to Ralsei immediately afterwards so it's not like he specifically denies seeing her or anything.
Lolwhat, you're saying Noelle didn't show up and Spamton just died symbolically?
The Queen was clearly wrong about Noelle sleeping considering she spoke to Susie, so you really shouldn't take her word as reliable.
I'm simply acknowledging the possibility of that happening.
All addressed already
No, I'm doubting it cause it's wrong. But I guess you had to sneak in one more accusation.
Also addressed.
That I agree with
You're repeating yourself a lot. Addressed.
The whole point of Snowgrave is manipulating her into being a murderer. If you don't push her to the final step (murdering Berdly), of course she's not gonna stay in that mindset forever. Once you do though she's clearly deeply affected by it IRL even when she doesn't think it's a dream. So, no "Noelle is a perfectly sweet person once you're no longer controlling her directly" is clearly wrong
Stronger bond being broken = stronger boost in power. I'd say that more than matches your whole wall of text.
In your DREAMS.
I never once did that either.
That is not an offense. You are clearly ignorant when it comes to the facts of the game.
Nothing of sort is even even remotely implied. Why would she get considerably stronger by beating random enemies if the bond is nearly non-existent? The strength of the bond was never stated, therefore it's your headcanon.
Twisting my words. Noelle didn't get from her room to the fountain in 0.2 seconds,
That is my bad, Queen told them to "let her close her eyes to a darker dream", implying she wanted Noelle to get some sleep. Still, Queen's words are absolutely true in this occasion, confirmed by Noelle.
Therefore this:
Is too unrealistic/unlikely of a possibility to be even remotely considered. Noelle would never hurt a soul if she isn't told to by the Player.
None of it was addressed. Funny enough.
"Is what you think, still not seeing any concrete proof."
You are aware that I can ban you from this thread, right? Or simply report you, I'd do the latter since it's fairer, but I don't think any sane staff member would disagree you're taking things over the top. And I will do that if you keep this up.
You literally didn't do anything but that drop half-sarcastic remarks. I would consider that insulting.
That's something you're allowed to think, but quit it with remarking that, I've got my own opinions on your knowledge but I'm keeping it to myself.
So they become stronger from breaking bonds but stronger bonds don't make for a stronger boosts? That makes no sense when it's literally the response to breaking them that makes you stronger.
Clearly the baseline is high enough already, that doesn't disprove stronger bonds being more effective.
I've provided an argument as to why it isn't and you've only delivered incredulity to it. I'd say that's a case closed alright.
Ok, then it's a range feat, "case closed".Twisting my words. Noelle didn't get from her room to the fountain in 0.2 seconds,unless you want to calc that
getting past Susie who was going to meet her (remember the path to there is linear)
getting past Ralsei who was blocking the way, and Queen how was worried about her.
Also, yes you can talk to Ralsei after sealing the fountain. You seal it and immediately go to the dark world if you so choose. Queen speaks about Noelle, and doesn't mention she running at nearly supersonic speeds to cast a spell? Again, super natural occurance probably due to her dependence on the player.
Well she was awake, so clearly they weren't.
She's literally been brainwashed into believing that she needs more power and literally asks Kris if they should find more enemies to kill.
Basic logic here dude. If the bond breaking is what makes for the power up, a stronger bond would cause a stronger boost.
feel free to not respond anymore, makes my job easier.
You literally admitted your own mistake in an edit, didn't think that'd be necessary. But yes, my "morality" argument was wrong, don't think I'm afraid of admitting that.
I Think @Armorchompy has the more viable arguement here.
Even though it CAN one-shot Ambyu-Lance after she gtets stronger a few times? How do we know it isn't just Durability Negation "When she's weaker, she can't freeze their entirety at once?" AFAIK, Durability Negation need not be a one-hit-kill every hit, just that it damages at all regardless of how Durable the victim is.
So your opinion is she got tens or hundreds of times stronger from killing Berdly because of how strong the bond she broke with Berdly was? (I don't deny the possibility. They've at least been study partners.)
I agree. I'll try to, for what that's worth.
Because she becomes stronger. I don't deny that it being Duraneg would be a possibility but it should not be our default assumption.
Indeed. Well, not necessarily tens of times, it's unquantifiable
This honestly makes me think there should be different keys for Normal Route/Weird Route, they have different personalities and the latter is much stronger.
Yeah, it can one-shot because she becomes stronger, but not all Durability Negation attacks are one-shots.
I'd question the idea that we don't have a metric, since:
Even without the Spamton thing, I agree that Weird Route Noelle is a different Key.
I already proved IceShock is dependent on Defense
Yeah, fair.
Perhaps I had been under the mistaken assumption that the Magic stat of the target was relevant for how much damage they took from Magical attacks or such.
Hmmm, I imagine the Defense stat would become redundant if that was the case.
It's questionable what scaling IS there; It's stated he got in while Queen was out looking for.... it was 1 or both of Berdly &/or Noelle, IIRC. Nonetheless, she wasn't there to confront Spamton, whether she had a reason to consider him or not.
