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I’d say the would. The laser attacks may not be legit as we never see them bounce off of anything, but Tasque’s sound and Werewire’s electricity balls could warrant support.
I’d say the would. The laser attacks may not be legit as we never see them bounce off of anything, but Tasque’s sound and Werewire’s electricity balls could warrant support.
Could you calc Lancer falling off the castle? It'd scale to most of Chapter 1 characters and perhaps make current calcs less of an outlier
King said if he threw him off the cliff he'd just bounce.
Could you calc Lancer falling off the castle? It'd scale to most of Chapter 1 characters and perhaps make current calcs less of an outlier
King said if he threw him off the cliff he'd just bounce.
That'd be a bit difficult to do since we'd need to find the height of the castle to get anything out of it, but I guess it can be done to support Ralsei's feat if it's not too low. If you wanted to, you could also further support it with the fact that Kris and Susie fall into the Dark World without being harmed at all (which is something they consistently do but it'd mostly be relevant for Chapter 1 scaling).
Another fall that happens is Susie literally jumping off from the fourth floor of the mansion (it's where noelle's room is) and landing on Ralsei down below. Though I think that was the third or second floor so perhaps it's not that impressive. And of course the coaster fall.
Hmmm... Something else interesting is that Spamton has a few attacks where these balls like break into what look like wi-fi signals. Curious if that's what they actually are because if they are signals that can potentially be a good speed feat.
Another fall that happens is Susie literally jumping off from the fourth floor of the mansion (it's where noelle's room is) and landing on Ralsei down below. Though I think that was the third or second floor so perhaps it's not that impressive. And of course the coaster fall.
Hmmm... Something else interesting is that Spamton has a few attacks where these balls like break into what look like wi-fi signals. Curious if that's what they actually are because if they are signals that can potentially be a good speed feat.
That'd be a bit difficult to do since we'd need to find the height of the castle to get anything out of it, but I guess it can be done to support Ralsei's feat if it's not too low. If you wanted to, you could also further support it with the fact that Kris and Susie fall into the Dark World without being harmed at all (which is something they consistently do but it'd mostly be relevant for Chapter 1 scaling).
This is high enough where air resistance would play a part on it, but still, I can probably pixelscale to find the height of the castle. Someone else has to calc it though, I have no idea how to calc a fall.
I agree with everything in the og post that isn't crossed out, but aren't dark worlds more like pocket dimensions that darkners enter from the outside? Not sure on that but I thought I would ask
Please let's remove Time Manipulation from Kris' profile. It's not treated as a canonical power in Deltarune, and Toby straight up stated the World worked with different rules, so we can't really scale the two...
If it's through the anomaly, that's fine, but not for his normal self, that's influencing Vs Matches.
It's a canon power. I don't currently have scans but a monster in chapter 2 mentions SAVEs briefly, and more importantly queen mentions determination. Sorry about the double post but I'm on mobile and for some reason it's not letting me edit
Ralsei outright mentions SAVING to Kris when you return to Castle Town after defeating Queen:
Kris' name also appears on the save files when SAVING in both Chapter 1 and Chapter 2 for the first time. Notably, at the first SAVE point, the game states that Kris reaches out to the light by second nature, implying that they've SAVED often:
So I think it's fair to say that Kris can SAVE, even if they aren't the one doing it for most of the game.
Ralsei outright mentions SAVING to Kris when you return to Castle Town after defeating Queen:
Kris' name also appears on the save files when SAVING in both Chapter 1 and Chapter 2 for the first time. Notably, at the first SAVE point, the game states that Kris reaches out to the light by second nature, implying that they've SAVED often:
So I think it's fair to say that Kris can SAVE, even if they aren't the one doing it for most of the game.
It doesn't say "Kris", it says "You", and just like an infinite amount of Undertale references you can make as the anomaly, this is one of them. It's second nature to the PLAYER, not Kris'
They shouldn't have the ability on their own. The anomaly/the player has the ability, and you can state "is being controlled by the Anomaly" on vs matches to include these abilities, but not by themselves.
It doesn't.
When you have a SAVE file on Chapter 1, it doesn't get back to Kris, it only does that if you have no SAVE file on Chapter 1 whatsoever, meaning Kris' unregistered "save" was never overwritten during Ch 1 like it usually is.
He shouldn't have the ability on his own. The anomaly/the player has the ability, and you can state "is being controlled by the Anomaly" on vs matches to include these abilities, but not by himself.
IIRC, didn't Toby say in the FAQ Deltarune might not have the same rules as Undertale?
Ergo, we can't assume SAVE-ing works under the same rules of jumping back & forth in a timeline or to & from or such, without clear evidence it does so in Deltarune, right? (Since we can't easily use evidence from Undertale.)
I'm with GodlyCharmander. The abilities of The Anomaly are their own. MAYBE Kris/The Anomaly could get a different Key/Tabber for one another.
(Heck. I've been wondering about the rules regarding team profiles & The Anomaly & The Delta Warriors, since a lot of the stuff they do, they do in... cooperation, I guess I'd say. But that might be a bit too complex to discuss right now.)
But Kris's Save File is unused. It's not blank, but it's literally Level 1, & no matter how long Kris has been in The Light World OR The Dark World, it lists no time as having passed. Since time is marked at recording of SAVE creation/updating, this time of 0 minutes, 0 seconds listed means:
A. This SAVE file either came into being VERY early in Kris's existence, which, assuming they're like a regular human, would probably mean they didn't know about it or lacked control of it. & considering they haven't SAVED at all in over a decade, a decade & a half, it's doubtful they know how, or are able.
B. Kris never had the ability, hence it having no time listed; It's a placeholder created FOR Kris, & others may have stuff like it.
C. It was created (Through Unknown means.) when entering The Dark World, since there are no Save Points in The Light World. But we don't know if there were special circumstances enabling this. (For example, in theory, entering the Dark World for the first time records a save time for the individual, independent of any SOUL in them.)
But A, C all lack evidence, & could easily be called headcanon; For A, it's unclear why the circumstances of Kris coming to be would be different from a regular human, so we can't easily assume that. We don't know HOW others can SAVE, if they can at all, & we don't know if entering The Dark World for the first time creates a SAVE for individuals in the lore.
So I would say it's most reasonable to assume Kris does not have Time Manipulation. It seems there's a lack of proof, & we generally can't use Undertale as evidence.
Spamton Neo also now seems to have more HP for the Blue parts the Yellow Soul can attack with their bullets, but I'm unsure if this extra HP only happens if the Big Shot Spam Exploit is used, or if it happens on this version in the fight even if the BBSE isn't used in that fight.
It is a little weird that the calc says: "The ball was being launched hard enough to get set on fire, hence it speed must be baseline Hypersonic, or Mach 5, which is 1715 m/s".
What's the evidence regarding the ball being set on fire by being launched rather than other means? Especially if it's supposedly moving very slowly, which might make the KE using such a speed of Mach 5 a little questionable.
It is a little weird that the calc says "The ball was being launched hard enough to get set on fire, hence it speed must be baseline Hypersonic, or Mach 5, which is 1715 m/s".
What's the evidence regarding the ball being set on fire by being launched rather than other means? Especially if it's supposedly moving very slowly, which might make the KE using such a speed of Mach 5 a little questionable.
So yeah. The aura/fire the calc calls "fire" also appears around Queen first while she's creating the ball. Then the "fire" disappears, & when Queen swings her battery acid glass without touching the ball, the "fire" reappears around the ball.
Also, when the Thrash Machine punches the ball, & afterwards, while it's flying back towards Queen, the ball lacks this "fire".
& as ShockingPsychic points out, the calc derives the ball's speed (& from that, the Low 7-C Kinetic Energy of the feat.) from it being rubber (The Queen can create rubber. Cool!) that was set on fire from moving at Mach 5, despite the Queen's statement of having "more extremely slow moving obviously punchable giant baseballs".
Mach 5 is "extremely slow moving" for them? & they don't get set on fire from it, but baseballs do?
So yeah. The aura/fire the calc calls "fire" also appears around Queen first while she's creating the ball. Then the "fire" disappears, & when Queen swings her battery acid glass without touching the ball, the "fire" reappears around the ball.
Also, when the Thrash Machine punches the ball, & afterwards, while it's flying back towards Queen, the ball lacks this "fire".
& as ShockingPsychic points out, the calc derives the ball's speed (& from that, the Low 7-C Kinetic Energy of the feat.) from it being rubber (The Queen can create rubber. Cool!) that was set on fire from moving at Mach 5, despite the Queen's statement of having "more extremely slow moving obviously punchable giant baseballs".
Mach 5 is "extremely slow moving" for them? & they don't get set on fire from it, but baseballs do?
It's clearly an aura, very similar to typical Dragon Ball Chi, "Mach 5" is only assumed due to the fact the aura is assumed to be fire, but we have little reason to believe so. While our calcs give us Subsonic to Transonic results, Toby is hardly trying to imply any of his characters have slow motion-hypersonic perception, so when he makes a character have a dialogue that says "extremely slow moving", he is communicating to the viewer, that it is, in fact, slow moving. So no, I don't believe Mach 5 is "slow moving" for them, as we have very little reason to believe it is Mach 5 in the first place.
It's clearly an aura, very similar to typical Dragon Ball Chi, "Mach 5" is only assumed due to the fact the aura is assumed to be fire, but we have little reason to believe so. While our calcs give us Subsonic to Transonic results, Toby is hardly trying to imply any of his characters have slow motion-hypersonic perception, so when he makes a character have a dialogue that says "extremely slow moving", he is communicating to the viewer, that it is, in fact, slow moving. So no, I don't believe Mach 5 is "slow moving" for them, as we have very little reason to believe it is Mach 5 in the first place.
So, your stance is that it's not Fire, it's Aura, & the giant baseball was not lit on fire from being launched at Mach 5, but rather, it is showing Aura from Queen (Presumably from when she telekinetically(?) launched it via swinging her Battery Acid Glass.) &, as she says, moving extremely slowly?
Nonetheless, thank you very much for your inputting here.
So, your stance is that it's not Fire, it's Aura, & the giant baseball was not lit on fire from being launched at Mach 5, but rather, it is showing Aura from Queen (Presumably from when she telekinetically(?) launched it via swinging her Battery Acid Glass.) &, as she says, moving extremely slowly?
Nonetheless, thank you very much for your inputting here.
Yeah, it's flickering in multiple different colors, and again, this kind of aura has also appeared on herself for no apparent reason, plus the dialogue is a very strong counter for the fire interpretation as well, as it is clearly not fabricated from speed, and therefore should have little influence on the calculation itself.
and again, this kind of aura has also appeared on herself for no apparent reason, plus the dialogue is a very strong counter for the fire interpretation as well, as it is clearly not fabricated from speed,
Well, the fact that it means the assumption of Mach 5 for the projectile speed (If it didn't actually catch on fire, no assuming catching flame by speed.) is invalid does mean a new method of determining speed would be needed.
So it would have as much influence as requiring a new method of calculating speed, & by extension, calculating the KE yield to base the value their stats scale on.
Presumably, we would use the KE formula from here, right?
The equation used:
Ek=0.5*M*V^2
Terms:
Ek=Kinetic Energy
M=mass
V=velocity=speed
Without the "ball was light on fire by being launched" assumption, how should we determine the baseball's speed? With the screen scrolling, it wouldn't be easy to pixel scale the distance (Might be doable, but I'm not sure how.) & use frame timing (For example, with http://www.watchframebyframe.com/ ) to determine timeframe for the ball's travelling, then use the pixel scaled distance & timeframe to get speed.
Usually this is not the case, unless it has reason to. Fire is usually depicted as orange/redish, with vibrant colors, while the ball had light aura-like "flames" around it
We should likely use the Inertia or Rotation Kinetic Energy formula, as this is what's used to calculate real-life baseballs when they are hit by a bat. It doesn't require an assumed speed, and will likely still bring us to relevant results.
I'll work on it tomorrow as I have little to no time to do it as of now.
Usually this is not the case, unless it has reason to. Fire is usually depicted as orange/redish, with vibrant colors, while the ball had light aura-like "flames" around it
We should likely use the Inertia or Rotation Kinetic Energy formula, as this is what's used to calculate real-life baseballs when they are hit by a bat. It doesn't require an assumed speed, and will likely still bring us to relevant results.
Unsure if Queen swinging her Battery Acid Glass to launch the ball without touching it, or the Thrash Machine hitting the ball with an uppercut are similar enough to a baseball bat. 'course, given my own uncertainty, I ain't gonna say you're going about this the wrong way.
Unsure if Queen swinging her Battery Acid Glass to launch the ball without touching it, or the Thrash Machine hitting the ball with an uppercut are similar enough to a baseball bat. 'course, given my own uncertainty, I ain't gonna say you're going about this the wrong way.
I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but, the ball seems to be rotating. Rotation Kinetic Energy would probably still work even if she did it through unknown means.
Glad you notified us. Although, it may be good to be sure that it's corrected in a way that other members don't object to.
If I may ask, what method do you plan to use? Rotational Kinetic Energy, I presume?
You plan to calc it for both Rotational Kinetic Energy & regular Kinetic Energy?
Nonetheless, I assume you have an idea on how to get Speed? No offense meant.
You plan to calc it for both Rotational Kinetic Energy & regular Kinetic Energy?
Nonetheless, I assume you have an idea on how to get Speed? No offense meant.
I remembered what I was going to say about enemy stats earlier.
I found out that Jevil has an unused recruit profile that lists his AT as 10. Notably, this is the same AT as the likes of Tasque Manager and Mauswheel, two of the strongest non-boss enemies in Chapter 2 (only Werewerewire is stronger with 11 AT). Even if we dismiss it for being unused content, there's still the fact that Spamton implies that he's not as strong as Jevil on his own and needs the NEO machine in Queen's basement to surpass him.
Speaking of which, given that said machine held a Shadow Crystal, an item which is only earned from defeating strong adversaries, as well as the fact that Spamton ignores Queen's mech even when he gets the opportunity to seize control of her mansion in the Weird Route and still goes for the machine in the basement, I think it's fair to say that Spamton NEO is stronger than Giga Queen. Kris, Susie, and Ralsei can defeat Spamton NEO by fighting, and Kris in the Weird Route is strong enough to handle him on their own, at least until Spamton uses the Bluelight Special.
I remembered what I was going to say about enemy stats earlier.
I found out that Jevil has an unused recruit profile that lists his AT as 10. Notably, this is the same AT as the likes of Tasque Manager and Mauswheel, two of the strongest non-boss enemies in Chapter 2 (only Werewerewire is stronger with 11 AT). Even if we dismiss it for being unused content, there's still the fact that Spamton implies that he's not as strong as Jevil on his own and needs the NEO machine in Queen's basement to surpass him.
I do agree that the unused recruit profile should probably be ignored; If it was not included in canon, it likely was purposefully made not canon. Without reason to assume it was excluded by accident, I don't think we can assume it was accidentally excluded.
& while I think it's probably safe to assume it was purposefully excluded, we can't assume the reason for its exclusion without evidence. Can't do baseless speculation.
As such, it doesn't seem right to me to use an unused Jevil Recruit's information.
The other evidence seems reasonable, though.
Speaking of which, given that said machine held a Shadow Crystal, an item which is only earned from defeating strong adversaries, as well as the fact that Spamton ignores Queen's mech even when he gets the opportunity to seize control of her mansion in the Weird Route and still goes for the machine in the basement, I think it's fair to say that Spamton NEO is stronger than Giga Queen. Kris, Susie, and Ralsei can defeat Spamton NEO by fighting, and Kris in the Weird Route is strong enough to handle him on their own, at least until Spamton uses the Bluelight Special.
I think there's a problem with this.
Why do we think that Spamton knows or considers Giga Queen "weaker" than the machine? Looking at these quotes (Quoting from the DR Wiki):
Spamton? This used to be his room... Though it's not like he used it, after a while. Eventually, he just spent all his time in the basement... praying. When things went downhill, he became obsessed with that artifact. - Swatchling outside Catty's room in the Mansion
Spamton is statedly obsessed with the "artifact", AKA the machine in the basement. "After a while", he spent all his time in the basement praying.
He was... Like the rest of us. Just... a little unlucky. For some reason, his products never seemed to hit... ... and the Lightners never even looked his way. ... Poor guy. - Addison in Trash Zone
Spamton was overlooked by Lightners. & when he sees Kris, he acts excited to see a Lightner.
That robot was the embodiment of a Lightner's dream. A dream I helped create... once. Splashing color from the motion of their hand. The Lightner filled it with their own hope, giving it an incredible power. ...but, in the end, nothing ever came of it. And it was left in the basement with the rest of the corrupted data. ...But that crooked salesman! Somehow, he learned about the robot, And thought he could use its power to fulfill his own twisted dreams. What a pity. To think he was once a valued customer... - Swatch after defeating Spamton NEO
Spamton learned of a robot that is the embodiment of a Lightner's dream left in the basement, presumably the "artifact" (The only other candidate I can think of is... the Shadow Crystal??) mentioned, & "thought he could use its power to fulfill his own twisted dreams.".
He started to get a little desperate. I heard he started looking for any way to become more popular. Somehow, he made the right phone call, and found someone. Or, was he... found BY someone? They must have been helping him, because suddenly, He was on the phone all the time... - Addison in Trash Zone
Even so, he only got more and more successful. He moved into a luxurious room in the Queen's mansion... He started bragging about big TV deals, big cars, big commercials... But then things started to crack. It seems like whatever was helping him... Disappeared. His sales dropped to zero... And everything came crashing down. - Addison in Trash Zone
Spamton, before he became obsessed, was desperate, then found or got a call, & was on the phone all the time.
The day he was to be evicted from the Queen's mansion, I went to his room to check on him... But he wasn't there. There was only a phone hanging off the handle. He must've left in the middle of a conversation, Because I could still hear someone on the other end... But when I put the receiver to my ear... There was nothing but garbage noise. - Addison in Trash Zone
So fixated on his call that he was still on the phone conversing with them the day of his eviction from the Queen's Mansion, despite it being "garbage noise".
The SAVE point in the mansion's entrance, in front of Giga Queen's legs/feet, says: Looking at these legs fills you with a certain power.
I don't think it's implausible that Spamton could have mistaken Giga Queen for a statue, if he even paid attention to it; We don't know where the entrance to the mech is, & the only part that shows the inside seems to be the eyes section, it's inanimate otherwise, & Queen being vain makes me think it wouldn't be out of place for her to make a statue in her own mansion.
The point is, why are we assuming Spamton would consider Giga Queen as weaker, or KNOW of her being weaker than Spamton Neo? He was only in her mansion during his seemingly temporary stint of success. After he moved in & started bragging, he came "crashing down" & his sales & calls numbers started dropping.
As far as I can tell, Spamton wasn't noted as giving any consideration to Queen nor to Giga Queen, whether he knew of it as her statue or her mech, if he even knew of it at all.
Once he got successful, he was on the phone all the time, & his time in the mansion had him becoming successful, falling, & becoming obsessed with a machine in the basement to the point that he moved out of his luxurious room in the mansion to start spending all of his time praying in a basement, despite it being full of corrupted data & his dreams of being a big shot, so that he could pray to his obsession, an "artifact", an embodiment of a Lightner's dream.
He even tried getting Sweet Cap'n Cakes to break into the mansion to deliver the disc. Sounds pretty fixated to me.
Not to mention, in Pacifist Weird Spamton Neo, he wants Kris's SOUL, & I think it's implied he wanted Ralsei & Susie's (On the assumption they have them.), & in his introduction, he complains about wires & wondering why is he not big enough?
If you talk to him from the locked basement entrance door in the Weird Route, he says he's busy becoming God, implying he thinks highly of the form.
& in Weird Route Spamton Neo:
AND NOW IT'S MY [Mansion]! MY [City] MY [World]!
SO WHY ARE YOU [Stealing] THE [Fountain]!?
TO [$!$!] ME OVER RIGHT AT THE [Good part]!? WHAT ARE YOU, A [Gameshow Host]!?
He calls the fountain the good part, implying he wanted something of it.
So, Spamton, who was on the phone all the time, & became obsessed with Lightner's & the "embodiment of a Lightner's dream", to the point that when things went bad, he abandoned luxury & started praying to it, & who either wants Lightner Souls or the fountain, & has no statement or showings implying he even noticed Queen or Giga Queen, beyond moving into her mansion as part of his luxury in his new success...
....Why would a person like that make a comparison of power?
He never sees Giga Queen fight, & barely acknowledges it or Queen, so how would he know Giga Queen's strength? & since he was fixated on the basement, he probably didn't know Giga Queen was more than a statue of the vain Queen's. Unlike the artifact, which he knew was from a Lightner, & he seems to associate Lightner SOULs & the fountain with power.
Not to mention, he TALKS of surpassing "that clown around town", presumably Jevil, saying that'll get so big.. but both times, he implies he still isn't as strong as his expectations.
Despite saying he was busy becoming a God, when he's done, he asks what are the wires (Wires still present even for Weird Route Spamton Neo.), why is it so dark, & why is he not "big enough" & deciding he needs to take the Lightner SOULs.
Or being at the fountain, & being angry Kris is trying to "[$!$!] him over at the good part" by "stealing the fountain".
Ultimately, Spamton said he would surpass Jevil & become so big before, but his dialogue & actions strongly suggest that he did get stronger, but he didn't succeed in surpassing them, & by extension, if we're banking on his words to claim he'd surpass Giga Queen (Despite that, AFAIK, he never mentions Queen & him knowing of Giga Queen is doubtful.), it's doubtful, for the same reasons that it's doubtful he surpassed Jevil.
& assuming Spamton knew or considered his Neo form would be stronger than Giga Queen is folly, because even if he did surpass folks as he expected to (Contrary to what his dialogue about the results suggests.), he's implied to do the OPPOSITE of paying any attention to Queen or Giga Queen, other than briefly living in her mansion being on the phone all the time, having a breakdown & becoming obsessed with the basement (That he moves into to pray to a machine artifact.) & seemingly Lightners, too.
No matter which path you take, Spamton Neo still goes to the basement, still has his wires, & still wants more power.
So I'm not sure it's reasonable to say Spamton ignoring Giga Queen is evidence he as Spamton Neo is stronger than Giga Queen. He is a Shadow Crystal holder, though, so THAT is evidence he's a strong adversary, however.
