Splitting The DC Cosmology Is Not Necessary

[Unwanted]

I've read the DC verse splitting page, and I think the reasons for its existence are trivial and exaggerated. I think there's another way instead of making 5 or 6 different versions of the Presence, Overvoid, Source, etc. with each of them having a different tier. And the number will only increase as we move on.

First of all I want to make it clear that Mike Carey's cosmology is no longer canon even to the Sandman/Vertigo universe. There's a more recent Vertigo Lucifer story and it didn't even hint to Mike Carey's story. So, making a Vertigo verse with Mike Carey's cosmology as the basis of its hierarchy is completely wrong.
I think Mike Carey should have his own key for the important characters shown in his story, pretty much Pre-Retcon, Post Retcon stuff. And that should apply to every other old story that is clearly no longer make sense, or canon to what's going on currently in DC.

Secondly, I think there's no need to split the verse based on different writers as long as current DC considers the stories of these writers canon to each other and tries to make sense of them.

If there are contradictory statements between different writers, like the size of the cosmology, or something like that, Instead of splitting the verse, I think it's better to simply ignore the older piece of information/older statement as something that was proven wrong and replace it with the newer one.

About the DC creation and the stories of how it started started, which are contradictory, I think these stories should co-exist if possible until a clarification comes from the comics.

There's no need to split the verse every time a contradiction happens, If DC itself considers these stories canon to each other.
I think splitting the verse should only happen for stories that are currently not canon and have been severed from DC. For example: Mike Carey.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

People only want to split cosmology because this website is biased against American Comics and every verse that isn't an exotic Japanese Chuunibyou thing and because they are scared of 1-A Superman like COWARDS.

 

[Confluctor]

They are going to be done as keys, not separate files.

I disagree for various reasons, main being picking to ignore a huge chunk of cosmology for the rightful people just because DC seems to forget it's existence. Vertigo's cosmology wasn't always 100% in line with DC, so keeping them separate here isn't that bad of an idea.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

People only want to split cosmology because this website is biased against American Comics and every verse that isn't an exotic Japanese Chuunibyou thing and because they are scared of 1-A Superman like COWARDS.

We literally downgraded most 1A VN characters and jap media very different from comics.

 

[Zaratthustra]

Sincerely its not biased against Comics but its more of a complicated relationship with it thanks to them having multiple runs, beginnings, retcons, etc which make hard to keep track, to see from where to start and they never end. Its harder to get into for new readers as one wouldn't know where to start and what to follow, usually they would want to know all the connections and plot stories but since its so wide spread its harder unlike manga/webtoons which only follow one timeline and you know (this is chapter one so its the beginning while X its the last chapter so this is where you must reach to be at day).

 

[Unwanted]

They are going to be done as keys, not separate files.

I disagree for various reasons, main being picking to ignore a huge chunk of cosmology for the rightful people just because DC seems to forget it's existence. Vertigo's cosmology wasn't always 100% in line with DC, so keeping them separate here isn't that bad of an idea.

You'll be also ignoring a huge chunk of cosmology if you split two stories that take from each other.
Scott Snyder takes from Grant Morrison, so why split them into two different verses if DC itself considers them canon to each other? Simply replacing an outdated statement here and there is better than making entire new cosmologies based on minor contradictions.
And the Endless' position in the hierarchy is established on Morrison's map, Lucifer and his brother scale to the Presence, so I don't think Vertigo will cause a problem.

 

[Unwanted]

Sincerely its not biased against Comics but its more of a complicated relationship with it thanks to them having multiple runs, beginnings, retcons, etc which make hard to keep track, to see from where to start and they never end. Its harder to get into for new readers as one wouldn't know where to start and what to follow, usually they would want to know all the connections and plot stories but since its so wide spread its harder unlike manga/webtoons which only follow one timeline and you know (this is chapter one so its the beginning while X its the last chapter so this is where you must reach to be at day).

I don't think there's bias, but I also think splitting the verse is an unnecessary exaggeration.

 

[Confluctor]

You'll be also ignoring a huge chunk of cosmology if you split two stories that take from each other.
Scott Snyder takes from Grant Morrison, so why split them into two different verses if DC itself considers them canon to each other?

But we aren't ignoring that?

Simply replacing an outdated statement here and there is better than making entire new cosmologies based on minor contradictions.

And the Endless' position in the hierarchy is established on Morrison's map, Lucifer and his brother scale to the Presence, so I don't think Vertigo will cause a problem.

Again, the vertigo stuff ran for like 2 decades, ignoring all those feats and cosmology is rather stupid. That's why it will be as a key.

Plus Lucifer and them lot will have their own keys for Morrison and Snyder stuff.

 

[Unwanted]

But we aren't ignoring that?

No you're dividing them when they are not divided story wise

Again, the vertigo stuff ran for like 2 decades, ignoring all those feats and cosmology is rather stupid. That's why it will be as a key.

Plus Lucifer and them lot will have their own keys for Morrison and Snyder stuff.

Mike Carey is no longer canon even in Vertigo. And the division page largely focuses on his cosmology when it comes to Vertigo, which is wrong. His stuff should be separated in a key of it's own.
And I don't think each character needs to have 5+ keys.

 

[Darksmash]

People only want to split cosmology because this website is biased against American Comics and every verse that isn't an exotic Japanese Chuunibyou thing and because they are scared of 1-A Superman like COWARDS.

Tier 0 has no japanese character and high 1-A only has 2 whose ratings are also only a "possibly"

 

[QuasiYuri]

It's a problem with long running series in general rather than comics only tbh.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

There's a lot of cosmology based concepts that comics from different writers use over decades, like gods being archetypal ideas, the Darkworld being unmentioned for decades and then coming back with similar descriptions, so its absurd to split the cosmology, its not like its inconsistent at all

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

Tier 0 has no japanese character and high 1-A only has 2 whose ratings are also only a "possibly"

Wouldnt it be 3? Void Body Akuto, The Law Of Identity and Hiroshi Miwa. Also it's "likely".

To not derail the thread anymore I will go. Bye.

 

[Krazydog050]

I want to know will Dc will get downgraded soon or not. I'm so confused.

 

[CosmicWreck]

People only want to split cosmology because this website is biased against American Comics and every verse that isn't an exotic Japanese Chuunibyou thing and because they are scared of 1-A Superman like COWARDS.

Of course other verses should be kept to the same standards but....

Most Japanese content that reaches 1-B+ are made from the same dude (s), run only for a few years and rarely introduce inconsistencies. Maybe you experience something that made you believe this, but any bias one may have thought this wiki may have formed in this way is kind of contradicted by the fact that it literally nuked several high ranking Japanese verses after finding out they were either totally wanked or taken out of context or mistranslated.

Edit: never mind, apparently sarcasm.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I want to know will Dc will get downgraded soon or not. I'm so confused.

According to hearsay it’s either coming “soon” or years away

 

[PrinceofPein]

How people didn’t see the sarcasm in Matthew’s texts bothers me

 

[Confluctor]

This whole thread is stupid

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

How people didn’t see the sarcasm in Matthew’s texts bothers me

I make the most obvious joke post ever and people act like I'm insulting their mother.

 

[Darksmash]

Hard to tell sarcasm in battleboarding

 

[CosmicWreck]

^

It is my bad.

 

[Unwanted]

This whole thread is stupid

That's a great attitude you have there
This is the second time I see you repeat the word stupid, the first time I've seen it and ignored it.
Either say something useful or don't say anything at all.

 

[Confluctor]

You could say your opinion is... Unwanted

Again, what do you want me to say which hasn't been said lol. This is gonna keep going in circles. I mean, idk why you even made this CRT, it essentially achieved nothing and probably won't. You will need to submit your arguments whenever the actual splitting thread drop. Until then, it's just screaming into the void.

 

[Unwanted]

You could say your opinion is... Unwanted

Again, what do you want me to say which hasn't been said lol. This is gonna keep going in circles. I mean, idk why you even made this CRT, it essentially achieved nothing and probably won't. You will need to submit your arguments whenever the actual splitting thread drop. Until then, it's just screaming into the void.

Honestly, you seem like a very biased and aggressive person. And you shouldn't be a moderator.
If you want the verse to be divided it's ok I can't change that, but don't try to belittle other arguments and opinions and throw insults like "stupid" and stuff like that because you can't debate.

 

[ShivaShakti]

I also find the cosmology division to be a symptom of Skill Issue.

 

[Confluctor]

Again, i really couldn't care less what you think of me as a person. The thing is, this thread is unnecessary and is not going to change anything until the actual CRT drops. So, if you got arguments, use it then. Because again, this isn't changing anything.

And also, the split isn't set into stones. It depends on how the community vote for such thing.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Cosmology split kinda cringe and unbased, I agree

 

[Transcending]

I agree as well, there's no reason the cosmology should be split.

 

[XVII]

we are getting off tracked here

anyway i agree with OP

 

[Krazydog050]

Again, i really couldn't care less what you think of me as a person. The thing is, this thread is unnecessary and is not going to change anything until the actual CRT drops. So, if you got arguments, use it then. Because again, this isn't changing anything.

And also, the split isn't set into stones. It depends on how the community vote for such thing.

When will actual Crt drop?

 

[Confluctor]

When will actual Crt drop?

who knows

 

[XVII]

Again, i really couldn't care less what you think of me as a person. The thing is, this thread is unnecessary and is not going to change anything until the actual CRT drops. So, if you got arguments, use it then. Because again, this isn't changing anything.

the purpose of a CRT is to just make changes to the actual stuff in-verse

there is no need to wait since the CRT would just add to it and vice-versa

so yeah, no need to wait for a CRT, we can start now

 

[Transcending]

When will actual Crt drop?

 

[Confluctor]

the purpose of a CRT is to just make changes to the actual stuff in-verse

there is no need to wait since the CRT would just add to it and vice-versa

so yeah, no need to wait for a CRT, we can start now

Oh if only it was as easy as that... OP wants to make huge changes in that case, and you can't just do that without actually have a backup stuff in mind. Which he has presented none of so far. Whethere its the big split or this, the cosmology needs a lot of revamping, and OP just came and said "I think its bad" and called it a day.

On the wiki rn, vertigo stuff has been used heavily used in DC cosmology, so he needs to find create a blog, making all those changes, then make a proper CRT with proper arguments.

 

[Krazydog050]

who knows

Bro

 

[Confluctor]

The best solution is to delete all capeshit stuff from the wiki and end our suffering once and for all

 

[PrinceofPein]

You can’t make a thread for something that is yet to happen, so yes this thread is actually pointless like they already told you.

Sending the man to jail before he took that 14 years old boy upstairs no system will prosecute him for something he has not done

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

If you don't want a revision to be accepted just delay them indefinitely for months on end until the people pushing for it lose interest.

- Signed, Former VSBW Staff Member.

 

[Unwanted]

You can’t make a thread for something that is yet to happen, so yes this thread is actually pointless like they already told you.

Sending the man to jail before he took that 14 years old boy upstairs no system will prosecute him for something he has not done

It doesn't even need to happen that's my point.

 

[CosmicWreck]

There's no need to split the verse every time a contradiction happens, If DC itself considers these stories canon to each other.
I think splitting the verse should only happen for stories that are currently not canon and have been severed from DC. For example: Mike Carey.

I mean, sure?

Tiering the characters based on whatever cosmology is currently running would mean rewriting and restructuring the god tiers every time something is added to the DC cosmology, or whenever an author decides to push their own way of doing things, which seems to be an unnecessary amount of work for the supporters of the verse who will have to continually update the profiles and re-scale them.

Also, just as this method can potentially increase the verse's attack potency to the highest levels, in regards to the current cosmology it would result in an even more massive downgrade than most people are even pushing for, since we'd be ignoring feats like Lucifer creating an infinitely layered structure where space-time doesn't exist, which is arguably the only outerverse level feat in the entire franchise.

I mean, people are admonishing OP and others who agree with him for jumping the gun, but these guys are pushing for changes that not only make their favorite verse much weaker in the favor of accuracy but are also volunteering themselves for more long-time work. I honestly admit I kind of respect them.