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Spider-Man No Way Home Revision: AP, Speed, and everything we didn't cover before (SPOILERS)

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Sir_Marvulous said:
Is Green Goblin's glider severing one of Doc Ock's Low 7-B durability arms an outlier? Cuz literally no one has survived the blades
Click to expand...
I'm not really sure if they should be Low 7-B in dura to begin with, surviving in the core of the IRL sun due to pressure alone is 8-A, plus the arms themselves have never been directly submerged into the protostar itself to actually scale, they only touched the outer barrier-thingy on it.

That and the star was said to produce 1000 megawatts of surplus, 3 times lower than Tony's miniature 3 gigawatt Arc Reactor he strapped on with the Mark 1. The IRL Sun produces enough energy every second to fry our planet's surface. That and Ock never actually stood a chance against Arc-Reactor Amped Electro, getting swatted aside.
 
Lonkitt said:
The arms'll still be At least 8-C anyways
Click to expand...
Yeah, they'll definitely be "At least 8-C", individually on their own they can overpower Spider-Man, tank the Pumpkin bombs exploding by covering it up with the hands with no damage at all and when the arms curl up in unison the durability is effectively 4 arms combined into one. And no one has shown feats of punching through that. Not even an enraged Tobey, who had to rely on a water dunking and sneakily using the machine's power cables to electrocute Ock.
 
KLOL506 said:
Eh, they can crush Spider-Man's head and easily injure Iron Spidey so there's that.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but they're so durable that literally nothing has damaged them except Green Goblin's glider blades. That's what I was referring to. I just confused the Low 7-B protostar rating with the arms being that durable and wondered whether or not Green Goblin cutting through one of them with his glider is an outlier.
 
Sir_Marvulous said:
Yeah, but they're so durable that literally nothing has damaged them except Green Goblin's glider blades. That's what I was referring to. I just confused the Low 7-B protostar rating with the arms being that durable and wondered whether or not Green Goblin cutting through one of them with his glider is an outlier.
Click to expand...
Nah, not an outlier, but the arms wouldn't scale to Low 7-B in the first place.
 
Sir_Marvulous said:
Would it be an outlier if the arms had Low 7-B durability? No one has done anything to endure the glider's blades so I figured not
Click to expand...
Probably not. No one has ever survived the Glider's blades and no one has ever managed to do any harm to Ock's arm.

In any case tho, the Low 7-B stuff scaling to durability makes no sense, since the value originates from an explosion-based calc of blowing up half of New York. (Which in and out of itself never really happens).
 
Lonkitt said:
HUGE SPIDER-MAN NO WAY HOME SPOILERS, READ AT YOUR OWN RISK

So for this revision, I'm gonna go over some basic drafts of what ratings are gonna look like due to what this movie has shown. Yes, cross-scaling is going to be proposed and surprisingly? It's quite consistent and helps with the lower tier MCU scaling in general (not for 9-Bs though). However, since we're already covering a lot, I figured we might as well cover some more abilities and statistics provided from previous movies and such. We're gonna be dumping a ton of information anyways. Whats the matter with putting in just a little more? Please read these very carefully.

New Ratings

MCU Spidey:
Attack Potency: Building level (Held a ferry together. Fought Captain America, though the latter was holding back. Harmed Bucky with a swing kick. Kicked Giant-Man in the face hard enough to make him sidestep. Destroyed Mysterio's drones. Defeated and nearly killed the Green Goblin. Staggered back The Lizard twice. Equal in power to his older counterparts) | At least Building level (Stronger than before, with the suit itself being powered by an advanced outlet. Possibly superior to older Iron Man suits when comparing its greater technological features. Killed multiple Outriders in Insta-Kill Mode)

Speed: Massively Hypersonic+ combat speed and reactions (Comparable to his older counterparts. Able to dodge multiple lightning attacks from Electro. Matched Winter Soldier and Falcon in combat at the same time. Dodged Scarlet Witch's attacks and should be comparable to her. Dodged attacks from Chitauri-based technology), Higher with Spider-Sense | Massively Hypersonic+ combat speed and reactions (Just as fast as before. Dodged meteors. Dodged automatic fire). Higher with Spider-Sense

Durability: Building level (Survived being blasted through school buses by the Shocker, whose gauntlets are even more powerful than the ones Crossbones used to harm Captain America. Survived holding a ferry together, a jet bridge falling onto him, an accidental slap from Giant-Man, and a few serious hits from Captain America. Withstood missiles from Mysterio's drones. Purposefully directed a Pumpkin Bomb within point-blank range and endured it even after taking multiple attacks from the Green Goblin) | At least Building level (His suit was designed to be significantly more durable than himself)

Base | Iron Spider

Raimi Spidey:
Attack Potency: Building level (Can harm New Goblin, who survived a bomb that vaporized Eddie Brock and the Symbiote. Once angered, defeated the Green Goblin. Can trade blows with people who can harm him. Equal in power to his younger counterparts), higher with the Black Suit (Empowered by Symbiote, enhancing his powers)

Speed: Massively Hypersonic+ combat speed and reactions (Reacted in tandem with another Spider-Man before tagging him with a web shot. Able to dodge multiple lightning attacks from Electro), higher with the Black Suit

Durability: Building level (Took beatings from Green Goblin and held-back attacks from Venom. Survived Green Goblin's Pumpkin Bomb at point-blank range), higher with the Black Suit

TASM Spidey:
Attack Potency: Building level (Can fight and harm The Lizard. Equal in power to his alternate counterparts)

Speed: Massively Hypersonic+ combat speed and reactions (Able to dodge multiple lightning attacks from Electro and even view them in slow-motion, and can keep up with him while in electricity form)

Durability: Building level (Took several blows from The Lizard. Survived very casual lightning attacks from Electro)

Green Goblin:
Attack Potency: Building level physically and with Pumpkin Bombs (Almost equal to Spider-Man who could tank his Pumpkin Bombs point-blank, capable of trading blows and nearly beating him on two separate occasions, as well as briefly subduing him with a stab during No Way Home. Disintegrated 6 people with a specialized Pumpkin Bomb), higher with Glider Blades (Cut one of Doctor Octopus' tentacles), up to Large Building level with missiles (Capable of blowing up a bunker and creating large explosions)

Speed: Massively Hypersonic+ combat speed and reactions (Kept up with the Spider-Man from his universe in all of their battles. Managed to avoid and land a few attacks on a serious alternate Spider-Man, albeit being overwhelmed ultimately)

Durability: Building level (Enhanced by the same formula that granted his son to survive a Pumpkin Bomb explosion up close), higher for his Glider (Stayed intact after the explosion of two Pumpkin Bombs within it, though this did disable it's flight functions)

Doctor Octopus:
Attack Potency: At least Building level (Dominated the Iron Spider when fighting against him. Overpowered two Spider-Men at once, the former of which he could continuously restrain effortlessly in their prior battles)

Speed: Massively Hypersonic+ combat speed and reactions (Kept up with the Spider-Man from his universe and the Iron Spider)

Durability: At least Building level (Took hits from the Iron Spider with little trouble. Has gotten right back up after beatdowns from his Spider-Man)

Lizard:
Attack Potency: Building level (Harmed two versions of Spider-Man not from his own universe)

Speed: Massively Hypersonic+ combat speed and reactions (Capable of keeping up with his Spider-Man as well as two two unfamiliar to his world)

Durability: Building level (Endured stomps to the face from an older Spider-Man)

Venom:
Attack Potency: At least Building level (Stronger than Spider-Man. Killed New Goblin)

Speed: Massively Hypersonic+ combat speed and reactions (Superior to Spider-Man)

Durability: At least Building level (Was left unharmed by Spider-Man's attacks, going as far as to state Peter was incapable of killing him. Easily took an attack from Base Sandman. Endured New Goblin knocking him several feet away with his Glider)

New Goblin:
Attack Potency: Building level (Harmed Spider-Man), up to Large Building level with special weaponry (Glassed Giant Sandman's arm using his Glider. His Glider can utilize missiles not unlike those his father used to destroy Quest's bunker and create large explosions)

Speed: Massively Hypersonic+ combat speed and reactions (Landed multiple attacks on Spider-Man despite the experience gap)

Durability: Building level (Tanked his own Pumpkin Bomb exploding in his face, only ending up with facial scars)

Green Goblin (TASM):
Attack Potency: Building level (Briefly restrained Spider-Man)

Speed: Massively Hypersonic+ combat speed and reactions (Can keep up with Spider-Man)

Durability: Building level (Took hits from Spider-Man)

Vulture:
Attack Potency: Building level (Harmed Spider-Man. His Chitauri Energy Rifle was capable of slicing a Ferry in half after accidentally being exposed to radiation)

Speed: Massively Hypersonic+ combat speed and reactions (Could avoid webs from Spider-Man as well as intercept his attempt to web Shocker)

Durability: Building level (Took a hit from Spider-Man, albeit he was holding back)

Electro:
Varies. Small Building level when calm (In a non-combative resting state, he can produce an electrical value as low as 1.4 megaamperes and 905.2 volts), Building level to Large Building+ in combat (Casually capable of producing electrical values ranging from 6.4 megaamperes and 4294.9 volts to 40.2 megaamperes and 26786.9 volts. Utilizes cloud-to-ground lightning as a common attack), City Block level at his absolute peak (At a maximum, could produce an electrical value of 46.2 megaamperes and 30808.2 volts. Fought against Giant Sandman. Overpowered the Spider-Man of his universe) | Multi-City Block level (Was said to be stronger than his Spider-Man had ever seen before, now amplified by the same Arc Reactor used for Tony Stark's Mark 6-47 suits. Easily blew away Doctor Octopus. Overpowered three different Spider-Men at the same time)

Speed: Massively Hypersonic+ combat speed, reactions, and attack speed (Uses lightning to attack, with it being able to able to mess with electronic devices, flow through water and metal objects. Can also use energy and lightning from power plants. Is able to turn into electricity)

Durability: Varies. Small Building level when calm, Building level to Large Building+ in combat, City Block level at his absolute peak (Could not be physically defeated by Spider-Man) | Multi-City Block level (Far more durable than before due to the Arc Reactor's amplification)

Pre-Arc Reactor | Post-Arc Reactor

NOTE: Values from Electro come from this very much so overlooked moment in TASM2 where Electro's megaamperes and volts are being measured by the device on his head as Dr. Kafka speaks with him. It's far more reliable than the moment in the movie where we see the device as he's being overloaded and killed. You can take a look at each of the values on this excellent blog by KLOL. For each of the points on Electro's output, we can put a "see note" that includes a link to this blog

Sandman:
Attack Potency: Building level (Could fight Spider-Man) | Up to City Block level with enough sand (Fought against Electro. Overpowered the Spider-Man from his world and the one from the MCU on separate occasions. Tore up sections of a building under construction with casual swats)

Speed: Massively Hypersonic+ combat speed and reactions (Kept up with his Spider-Man in their battles. Managed to tag Venom) | Massively Hypersonic+ combat speed and reactions (Kept up with Electro)

Durability: Building level (Took hits from Spider-Man) | Up to City Block level with enough sand (Shielded off Electro's attacks. A swing kick from the Spider-Man of his universe was ineffective in harming him)

Base | Giant

Shocker:
Attack Potency: Human level, Building level with Shocker Gauntlets (Wields upgraded versions of Crossbones' Gauntlets which were used to harm Captain America)

Speed: Massively Hypersonic+ attack speed with Shocker Gauntlets (Could blast Spider-Man)

Durability: Human level

Rhino:
Attack Potency: Human level, Unknown in his suit (Fought with Spider-Man, but it was offscreen and lost. Made small explosions with his missiles)

Speed: Unknown, Supersonic+ Attack Speed with guns and missiles (Can use machine guns and missiles which can travel this fast)

Durability: Human level, Unknown in his suit (Possibly took hits from Spider-Man offscreen)

Dr. Strange:
Attack Potency: Street level physically (Traded blows with Kaecilius, who casually decapitated a man with a blade), Unknown with Magic (Fought with Kaecilius) | Street level physically (Just as strong as before) Unknown with Magic (Should be stronger than his Doctor Strange self. Fought Thanos when he owned four Infinity Stones and held his own against him better than anyone else. Attempted to trap Thanos within a Mirror Dimension wall, forcing him to use the Power Stone to break free, and later restrained him with many Magic Energy Whips, forcing him to use a combination of the Power Stone and the Soul Stone to break free. Thanos later went as far as to praise Strange for his power and skill), able to ignore durability in some ways

Speed: Massively Hypersonic+ combat speed and reactions (Should be comparable to the Ancient One, who reacted to and blocked a magic arrow that crossed hundreds of meters in seconds. Likely at least comparable in speed to characters such as Ultron, due to not considering him a threat. Can keep up with Thanos and Spider-Man in combat). Unknown flight speed with Cloak of Levitation

Durability: Street level physically (Took attacks from Kaecilius), At least City Level with Magic Barriers (Should be comparable to other sorcerers, who could shield attacks from the Sanctuary II. Can stop magical attacks from sorcerers that are as powerful as himself. Survived a room-sized explosion from a distance) | Building level physically (Endured a Pumpkin Bomb explosion up close. Tanked a small explosive), At least City level with Magic Shields (His magic shields should be as durable as before)

Pre-Infinity War | Post-Infinity War

Ability Additions and Revisions

MCU Peter:
Base: Regeneration (High-Low; Healed his broken ribs in a matter of a few hours), Instinctive Reactions and Self-Body Puppetry (Despite Dr. Strange removing his soul, Peter's physical body continued to move a magical box away from the former's grasp continuously), Limited Self-Soul Manipulation (Solely moved his soul back into his body), Danmaku (with EDITH)
Optional Equipment: BFR (Can utilize a single magic web-shooter that sends people or objects to a magical prison if shot with a single web), Power Nullification (Alongside two other Peter Parkers, created cures for Green Goblin, Sandman, Electro, and The Lizard which would effectively depower them)

Additional points for existing abilities: Technological Manipulation (Can control the Nanotechnology of the Iron Spider even when not using it, as well as when it was forcibly integrated into Doctor Octopus’ metal arms), Precognition (Warned Peter when Norman Osborn’s Goblin persona was about to resurface), Preparation (Worked on cures for a number of villains within a short amount of time)

Raimi Peter:
Base: Preparation (Worked on cures for a number of villains within a short amount of time)
Optional Equipment: Power Nullification (Alongside two other Peter Parkers, created cures for Green Goblin, Sandman, Electro, and The Lizard which would effectively depower them)
Black Suit: Multiple Selves (Type 3), Telepathy (The Symbiote can share the memories of previous hosts), Empathic Manipulation (The Symbiote often amplifies its host's anger to emotionally reactive levels), Statistics Amplification (The Symbiote amplifies the abilities and physical attributes of it's hosts), Power Mimicry (Copied Spider-Man's abilities after bonding with him), Instinctive Reactions (Can perform swings and jumps that would require quick calculations without conscious thought when using the Symbiote)

Additional points for existing abilities: Enhanced Awareness and Self-Perception Manipulation (Could view Mary Jane, her father, friends, and Flash Thompson from the house over while in his room as his body was processing his powers. Focused in on Dennis Carradine's location on the second floor of a dark warehouse)

TASM Peter:
Base: Precognition and Enhanced Senses (Peter's senses were significantly upgraded after attaining his powers. Was alerted to The Lizard's rampage on the Williamsburg Bridge. Detected small lizards heading into the subway where Connors was operating. Sensed Electro's arrival to Times Square before he had even made a commotion. Was given an accurate view of several civilians who were in immediate danger, allowing him to prevent each of their deaths. Caught a football without looking. Caught a fly effortlessly. Without looking, could casually web swing out of the way an attack from Electro), Instinctive Reactions (Accidentally defeated a group of attackers on a subway train, with his body even recognizing how to use the environment as an advantage), Regeneration (Mid-Low; Stated to be capable of self-healing. Healed from deep scars inflicted on his body by The Lizard), Surface Scaling (Use primarily for wall-crawling. Can stick objects to his hands and feet with little chance of them budging. Had an uninterrupted sleep with his body sticking between two surfaces), Acrobatics (Commonly performs incredible feats of agility. Traversed a crowded alley with ease), Stealth Mastery (Snuck into a car while a thief was in the middle of stealing it, which was proceeded by sneaking out of the car in complete silence. Moved himself to a ceiling behind the Lizard in the short time the latter had briefly ducked, despite the latter's enhanced senses. Silently left while he was right next to Gwen), Preparation (Worked on cures for a number of villains within a short amount of time)
Optional Equipment: Power Nullification (Alongside two other Peter Parkers, created cures for Green Goblin, Sandman, Electro, and The Lizard which would effectively depower them)

Dr. Strange:
Fire Manipulation, Creation (Created a magical web-shooter for Spider-Man), Memory Manipulation (Could erase the memory of Peter Parker being Spider-Man across the Multiverse, including Stephen's own memory of such knowledge, a spell that the latter considers to be "standard")

Green Goblin:
Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Genius Intelligence, Martial Arts, Weapon Mastery, Acrobatics (Front flipped a fair distance forwards. Performed a spinning flip into the air to knock an ascending Spider-Man down), Enhanced Senses (Could hear a drop of blood fall onto a wooden floor), Regeneration (Has the same level of regeneration as his son after he obtained his powers, who healed on his own after receiving scars and a stab to the upper body), Explosion Manipulation (Pumpkin Bombs and Missiles), Sleep Inducement (Can project Sleeping Gas from his gauntlets), Flight (With his Glider), Homing Attack (His Flying Razors can track opponents, even if they initially dodged them the first time)

Doctor Octopus:
Technological Manipulation (Removed the Iron Spider's Nanotechnology and integrated it into his metal arms), Resistance to Electricity Manipulation for his tentacles (Can safely grab Electro, however this resistance is essentially negated should the retractable blades on his metal arms make contact with a high voltage)

Sandman:
Air Manipulation

Venom:
Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Natural Weaponry (Via his claws), Multiple Selves (Type 3; Eddie Brock and Venom coexist in a symbiotic relationship), Martial Arts, Surface Scaling, Web Creation, Acrobatics, Stealth Mastery, Regeneration (Mid-Low; Has an enhanced and far faster variant of regeneration compared to Spider-Man), Enhanced Awareness and Self-Perception Manipulation (Possesses the same senses as Spider-Man, but enhanced. His own Spider-Sense allowed him to locate Sandman), Telepathy (Eddie had Peter's memories shared with him shortly after bonding with the Symbiote), Empathic Manipulation (The Symbiote often amplifies its host's anger to emotionally reactive levels), Statistics Amplification (The Symbiote amplifies the abilities and physical attributes of it's hosts), Power Mimicry (Copied Spider-Man's abilities after bonding with him, allowing Eddie to utilize them), Instinctive Reactions (Just like when Peter used the Symbiote, Eddie can perform swings and jumps that would require quick calculations without conscious thought)

New Goblin:
Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Martial Arts, Weapon Mastery, Stealth Mastery (Remained hidden within Mary Jane's apartment before sneak attacking her), Flight (With his Glider), Enhanced Senses (Has the same level of enhanced hearing as his father, who could drop of blood fall onto a wooden floor. Even after losing his memory, he had no trouble catching a falling vase and basketball in reaction to his senses), Regeneration (Healed on his own after receiving scars and a stab to the upper body), Acrobatics (Spun his body around in mid-air to position himself back onto his Glider as it returned to him), Explosion Manipulation (Pumpkin Bombs, Razor Bombs, and Missiles), Homing Attack (His Razor Bombs can track opponents the moment they're thrown), Fire Manipulation (His Glider can be used to emit heavy flames offensively)

The Lizard:
Surface Scaling (Has no trouble climbing walls and ceilings), Underwater Breathing (Type 2)

Electro:
Teleportation, Enhanced Senses (Can detect the difference in electricity from one universe to another. Can see where energy is coursing through. Detected an alternate Spider-Man attacking from behind, allowing himself to effectively avoid being hit), Electrical Intangibility (Can become intangible), Telekinesis (Lifted and slammed a truck with electricity. Held Spider-Man in place, and could later do the same with two at once), Shockwave Generation (Has casually created electrical shockwaves in battle)

Intelligence

MCU Peter:
Genius (Created his web-shooters under a very limited budget. Created a more potent version of the suit provided to him by Tony Stark. Figured out a way to defeat Mysterio in the short timespan of a jet flight from the Netherlands to London. Shown to be multilingual. Identified the material of Falcon's wings and how they worked by simply glancing at them. Built a makeshift bomb with a downed EDITH drone in the middle of combat. Should be at least as smart as, if not smarter than Ned Leeds, who could hack into the Stark Suit. Broke out of the Damage Control Deep Storage Vault with some assistance from Karen and a calculator, which was said to be "the most secure facility on the Eastern Seaboard". Understood the theoretical mechanics of the multiverse. Easily defeated the Winter Soldier and Falcon at the same time, with Iron Man personally commentating that his combat display in Berlin proved he had potential and was "the real deal". Tony considered Peter to be a candidate for MIT, which is a research university specialized in applied science and engineering where some of the brightest technological minds have worked. Acted as the lead strategist when working alongside his older counterparts against villains from their universes. Understood how the Mirror Dimension worked through advanced knowledge on geometry, trapping Doctor Strange within it despite the latter using multiple magical abilities against him. Successfully fixed Otto Octavius' inhibitor chip after deducing how it was negatively affected him, with Norman Osborn calling Peter's work "remarkable". Worked on cures to various supervillains' powers, including Sandman's abilities, in a matter of hours)

Raimi Peter:
Genius (Understood all of Norman Osborn's research, including on the topic nanotechnology, writing a paper on said topic much to Norman's approval. Has been referred to as "brilliant" by Curt Connors, who is a quantum physics scientist. His intellect impressed Otto Octavius, who built his mechanical arms and a self-sustaining nuclear fusion reactor which could sustain a protostar. Peter considered that the fusion of Otto's reactor would become unstable, which was ultimately true, with the latter even admitting that Parker was correct. Calculates his jumps and web swings as to make sure he can safely perform them. Harry Osborn and Gwen Stacy have called Peter a genius, with Gwen herself being a lab worker in Curt Connors' lab. Worked on cures to various supervillains' powers, including Sandman's abilities, in a matter of hours. Was able to create a cure for Norman Osborn, something he said he thought about for years after defeating him, negating his powers and essentially curing his dissociative identity disorder)

TASM Peter:
Genius (Perfected his father's webbing formula. Constructed working mechanical web-shooters. Casually solved an algorithm that was key to creating the formula mutated Curt Connors, whereas it took the former years to attempt the same with zero success. Smarter than Curt Connors, a world renowned herpetologist, who can identify chemical liquids just by glancing at them before immediately mixing them into an explosive. Quickly pieced together how he was brought into the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Worked on cures to various supervillains' powers, including Sandman's abilities, in a matter of hours. Easily took down a team of highly trained armoured police officers early into his career)

Venom:
Above Average (While not nearly as intelligent as Peter Parker, he was granted with his personal memories as his journey as Spider-Man, likely explaining his advanced fighting style and proficient use of his abilities. Easily killed an entire SWAT team)

The Lizard:
Genius (Is a a world renowned herpetologist. Can identify chemical liquids just by glancing at them before immediately mixing them into an explosive. Should be as smart as Richard Parker, who created the same Radioactive Spider that granted Peter Parkers spider powers. Created the Lizard serum, albeit with assistance from Peter and his colleagues)


Why is the Iron Spider no longer High 8-C (something that also affects Doc Ock)

The scaling to Iron Man suits if fairly fault as the Arc Reactor plays a large part in the power of Iron Man. However, we do know from official sources that the Iron Spider is stronger and more durable than Base Peter, so we can say it's "At least 8-C", and based on it's advancements, it's at least worth mentioning it could surpass the power of older suits.

The Integrated Suit is not scalable to the Iron Spider. The returning nanotech only gave him a new emblem. It was even shown to not be bulletproof like the Iron Spider, so its a Base Suit by our standards

Extra Quotes because they're fun
“I lost…I lost Gwen, my…she was my MJ. I couldn’t save her. I’m never gonna be able to forgive myself for that. But I carried on, I tried to, um…tried to keep going, tried to keep being the, uh…the Friendly Neighbourhood Spider-Man, cuz’ I know that’s what she would’ve wanted, but…’some point I just stopped pulling my punches. I got rageful. I got bitter. I just don’t want you to end up like…like me.” -Peter to MCU Peter (NWH quote)

"The truth is...that this is all my fault. I accidentally brought those dangerous people here. And if those people are watching, just know that I really did try to help you...I could've killed you...at any given moment, but I didn't. Because my Aunt May told me that everybody deserves a second chance, and that's why I'm here."
-Peter Parker to the world (Integrated Suit quote)

"You can't trick me anymore..."
-Peter after overcoming Beck's tricks (Bosco Suit quote)

"I'm ruined! I have nothing left except Spider-Man..."
-Harry Osborn

Covering Misconceptions
"MCU Peter had his attacks laughed off by Norman."
He was holding back during that fight, which Norman mocked him for twice. When he stopped holding back, his attacks weren't laughable and pretty much turned him to pulp. This is not too unlike SM1's final battle. Context is everything.
Dialogue right before their final battle
Norman: Poor Peter. Too weak to send me home to die?
MCU Peter: No. I just want to kill you myself.
Norman: ...Attaboy.

"Electro was amped by the MCU's electricity, he should have three keys."
This is debunked by a conversation between MJ and Electro
MJ: No real way to sugarcoat that, it's literally the dungeon of a wizard.
Max: Look, you can keep your magic...I want a taste of that new energy I just felt.

"Raimi Spidey stopped MCU Spidey from killing Goblin so he should be stronger."
In Lifting Strength, he'll be slightly stronger. AP wise? Nah. All of the Spider-Men are presented as very much so equals in combat (for their base forms). Doesn't matter much anyways, they'll all be in the same lifting class

"Why doesn't Ock scale to Electro? He restrained him."
Octavius had to trick Post-Arc Reactor Electro to get close and depower him. Earlier, Otto was one-shot by Electro in this state. Lets also note that this isn't a matter of Electro's powers surpassing his physical attributes as when he was far weaker, TASM Spider was incapable of physically harming him

I also know the 8-A Iron Man thing is a little controversial, but that's a larger scale MCU discussion. One battle at a time people. Even without that, Electro was the strongest character in the movie anyways

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
The OP seems fine. MCU Spidey should still keep his movement speed if he doesn't have better scaling for it but his reaction and combat speed already scales to Cap America and Scarlet Witch. Is there any thing I'm missing?
 
ElixirBlue said:
MCU Spidey should still keep his movement speed if he doesn't have better scaling for it but his reaction and combat speed already scales to Cap America and Scarlet Witch
Click to expand...
Oh of course. He's keeping the movement speed, I was only covering the reactions and combat speed there. Regular MHS essentially becomes a supporting feat for MHS+ now

From here, certain pages would need to be unlocked
 
Last edited:
Yeah, movement speed remains unchanged. Only the Combat Speed and reactions get upgraded.
 
Aight bois, I'll be offline for a couple hours, social event to attend to.
 
M3X said:
For the summary:
Click to expand...
the film suggests that not much time has passed after SM3 and TASM2, probably months or 1 year, what is the guarantee that it has passed "years"?. In my view it should be "After Events" and not "Years After Events"
 
Lonkitt said:
“Not made with future movies in mind” would destroy scaling over several verses (ex. Star Wars). It’s a very weak argument.
Click to expand...
How is it a "very weak argument"? Do you not see the problem with taking scaling from another set of movies 10 years in the future before even the thought of NWH or anything happening within it? By that logic its perfectly fine to use information/scans from DBS to prove something within OG dragon ball. Like what?
Across this thread, we’ve proven that Tier 8 is very consistent for these characters.
Click to expand...
Consistency wasn't the problem I had.
The time after the movies isn’t ambiguous. Electro comments on how TASM Peter is still young
Click to expand...
Electro just said he LOOKS young generally, he wasn't saying "oh this guy barely changed from the last time i met him".
Even if he actually did say that, thats not a negation to the amount of time after his movies being ambiguous. You do know what that means right? And we do know for a fact that it's not a short amount of time after his movies too, because Andrew notes that after Gwen died he had an entire arc of "not pulling his punches".

So yeah I stand by what I said, they need a new Key for NWH.
 
LeSupremeKing1 said:
How is it a "very weak argument"? Do you not see the problem with taking scaling from another set of movies 10 years in the future before even the thought of NWH or anything happening within it? By that logic its perfectly fine to use information/scans from DBS to prove something within OG dragon ball. Like what?
Click to expand...
That example isn’t even remotely comparable. Dragon Ball and the MCU operate very differently in their systems to astounding levels. By that same logic, we can’t use anything from the Sequel Trilogy of Star Wars. The movie isn’t also necessarily set 10 years in the future. Real life releases =/= in lore time
LeSupremeKing1 said:
Electro just said he LOOKS young generally, he wasn't saying "oh this guy barely changed from the last time i met him".
Even if he actually did say that, thats not a negation to the amount of time after his movies being ambiguous. You do know what that means right? And we do know for a fact that it's not a short amount of time after his movies too, because Andrew notes that after Gwen died he had an entire arc of "not pulling his punches".
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Yes, he speaks of a time where he stopped pulling his punches, but when you said “entire arc”….you’re not being clear on what you mean. An arc could be as little as two to three weeks for him, the Spider-Man movies don’t cover that large of a time span on ever occasion. Electro was essentially implying that he hadn’t aged too much from before. You’re acting as if TASM Peter could be 58 or something

Overall, you’re reaching fairly far. The time point part is also negated by how the villains are taken from the points right before their deaths

This isn’t even mentioning how people such as Raimi Peter and Goblin having new keys would be useless due to their 8-C ratings
 
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ShakeResounding said:
I'm more so thinking on how well the Spider-Men have tanked the Pumpkin Bombs, which is what I think we should look at tbh. Tobey was already beaten on for a while, took one to the face, survived an extra beatdown for like 3 minutes, and then just overpowered the Goblin afterwards the moment he stopped restraining himself.
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Spider-Man was desperately weakened prior to his final fight with the Goblin:
image0.png
 
Lonkitt said:
Yes, he speaks of a time where he stopped pulling his punches, but when you said “entire arc”….you’re not being clear on what you mean. An arc could be as little as two to three weeks for him
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Or could be as large as a couple months or years. We don't know. Thats exactly why I said the amount of time between these two spiderman is AMBIGUOUS.
Electro was essentially implying that he hadn’t aged too much from before.
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He had no idea what he looked like before, nor did he say that as if comparing him to a version past version of himself. You are completely warping what he said. And we know this because Electro literally said he thought spiderman was black, and was shocked seeing Andrew's face. (Which obviously he wouldn't have been if he had any idea of what Andrew looked like).
You’re acting as if TASM Peter could be 58 or something
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I never said that. All i'm saying is that the time between these two events are unknown.
The time point part is also negated by how the villains are taken from the points right before their deaths
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How does some of the villains being taken out of the timeline negate there being an unknown amount of time in between TASM 2 and NWH?
 
LeSupremeKing1 said:
How does some of the villains being taken out of the timeline negate there being an unknown amount of time in between TASM 2 and NWH?
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Wouldn't the Past Iterations of Tobey (SM 1-3) and Andrew's (TASM 1-2) Spider-Men still scale to their Present Iterations of Spider-Men (NWH) for fighting the Villains who are stated to be same the Iterations from those specific points in their time
 
LeSupremeKing1 said:
How does some of the villains being taken out of the timeline negate there being an unknown amount of time in between TASM 2 and NWH?
Click to expand...
Maybe to do with the fact that a new key for an SM2 Ock makes no sense. Same with an SM1 Goblin
LeSupremeKing1 said:
Or could be as large as a couple months or years. We don't know. Thats exactly why I said the amount of time between these two spiderman is AMBIGUOUS.

He had no idea what he looked like before, nor did he say that as if comparing him to a version past version of himself. You are completely warping what he said. And we know this because Electro literally said he thought spiderman was black, and was shocked seeing Andrew's face. (Which obviously he wouldn't have been if he had any idea of what Andrew looked like)
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You claim we don’t know, yet you’re suggesting it’s likely far ahead in the future. However, that point works against you anyhow since that’s just as much of an argument to say “not much time could’ve passed.

I’m not warping anything. What’s warped is the idea that keys make sense here when they just make things more confusing and inconsistent.
 
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