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Sonic's Invulnerability.

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I wasn't attacking Cal, my God, I know him and I know he was complaining about Sonic being unstoppable multiple times to me in other threads and websites because he thinks there's no tension in the series, his original comment that I saw when I wrotte that was calling Sonic a "unstoppable god", people need to chill out, jeez, this is banter, calliing someone you know "salty" is not a insult, nor I meant it as one
 
No said:
FEB was never implied to made causally and if anything was implied to be above the emeralds, as Emerl was programmed to go after the strongest source, which is why it override Emerl's emerald objective.
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Wrong, Sonic(base) was the one which was linked to him, not emeralds, all that makes is the FEB stronger than base Soniv because it overwrotte his link
 
Oh yeah I have nothing against User. This is a normal talk for us. Which is why we can talk like this to one another. We're cordial and jazz.
 
If you are fine with it, Cal, and it is normal talk for you and User, I am cool with it and no problem.
 
Zamasu Chan said:
Devil Doom is physically stronger than Shadow because the only was to hurt him was his eyes. However Shadow tanks every single one of his attacks. Clearly Supers have durability that's >> their AP.
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That just means Devil Doom is durable. He has no feats of strength at 4-A. Just durability. Which is my point.

I'm fully willing to die on this hill.
 
The real cal howard said:
Theuser789 said:
Cal, stop being salty because of your vision of bosses beating Sonic or not, like, half of those bosses can't even take normal damage
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Because the idea of a massive gameplay disconnect of Sonic being able to lose at all and Sonic at the very least being able to win a war of attrition is idiotic, and either the game developers can't combine gameplay and lore to save their lives or we're doing something wrong. And I'd believe the latter before the former.

I want you to name a single video game where the narrative tension is nonexistent with the final boss. Because according to you Sonic fans, every game where Super Sonic makes an appearance is that. Lasts forever and can't be hurt by anything short of Solaris. I've seen Saitama fights with more narrative tension than that.
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Buddy, the reason is that they give less than a shit about power scalers, they just think it's cool, and I already explained to you before the tension and stakes in all of those sites, and even that plot or author intent is irrelevant here, or do you want base Sonic faster than Mario?
 
Theuser789 said:
I wasn't attacking Cal, my God, I know him and I know he was complaining about Sonic being unstoppable multiple times to me in other threads and websites because he thinks there's no tension in the series, his original comment that I saw when I wrotte that was calling Sonic a "unstoppable god", people need to chill out, jeez, this is banter, calliing someone you know "salty" is not a insult, nor I meant it as one
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Okay. No problem.
 
That's not rule of cool. That's writing yourself into a corner for the sake of cool. Not the first case I've seen of it. Madara is an amazing example.
 
I mean, have you seen the sonic writing lately

I know of a lot of games where the tension isn't really the death of the character but something else. The Dark Souls trilogy, Bloodborne, Katana ZERO, victory in combat wasn't ever in doubt in Doom 2016, Hollow Knight, and Salt and Sanctuary. With the exception of Doom 2016, which has a different thing, the others all have mechanics existing in both game and story meaning that the PC isn't going to stay dead and that they will just attrition their way through eventually provided the player doesn't give up, and doomguy kinda canonically stomped the armies of hell. These are things that happen, and I don't find it especially unbelievable with sonic here.

There's also that super sonic often IS the endgame for him. He goes super in response to some threat he can't normally do, and the goal is more to get the resources he needs to fix everything. Subsidiary media I know, but super form in the new IDW comic is being seen as a hope for how they can fix everything. It's not "get to super form then struggle more", the struggle is to get there. Iirc in heroes metal sonic starts yelling about how he can't do anything to the super forms of the team but I'd have to check
 
Do you want to argue about writting or feats, because as said writting or author intent aren't, and all the advance bosses can tank their attacks reflected, and survive hits from Sonic, and they are obviously weaker than most final bosses by simple lore being just machines Eggman buit with only prep, so that's that, also pretty sure both bosses like Devil Doom and Overlord can actualy clash their attacks with Sonic as welll, they attacks don't get just baited aside
 
The real cal howard said:
That just means Devil Doom is durable. He has no feats of strength at 4-A. Just durability. Which is my point.

I'm fully willing to die on this hill.
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Black Doom is not a stone wall and hence Devil Doom shouldn't be one either.

@Zamasu Good point about the eye thing, we could probably calculate how much more durable a body is compared to an eye, scale said durability to Doom's AP and that to Shadow and the Super forms durability if 3 times doesn't work out.

edit: nevermind if the attacks clash then Doom's AP = Shadow's.
 
@Shake 3 times came from Solaris's effort of taking down one super form being comparable to 3 super forms taking him down.
 
Theuser789 said:
Do you want to argue about writting or feats, because as said writting or author intent aren't, and all the advance bosses can tank their attacks reflected, and survive hits from Sonic, and they are obviously weaker than most final bosses by simple lore being just machines Eggman buit with only prep, so that's that, also pretty sure both bosses like Devil Doom and Overlord can actualy clash their attacks with Sonic as welll, they attacks don't get just baited aside
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I mean, I'm a writer before I'm a powerscaler so...yeah id rather discuss writing.
 
Do you want to discuss it here or on Discord? I am open to it

But in anyways their attacks can hurt them and they can match other attacks from super forms, so I think that's good evidence
 
Black Doom is not a stone wall and hence Devil Doom shouldn't be one either.

@Zamasu Good point about the eye thing, we could probably calculate how much more durable a body is compared to an eye, scale said durability to Doom's AP and that to Shadow and the Super forms durability if 3 times doesn't work out.

Why? That makes no sense? Why should DD need to not be a wall just because a separate form of him isn't. They don't need to scale really.
 
@Wok. The difference there is that they can die in the first place at all. You can give up. Theoretically, they can just always lose. Doom guy stomped, but there was always the possibility of him losing. You wouldn't know he stomped until later. None of these are the case for Super Sonic.

And while it is endgame, it's the endgame to beat the final dude. Everything builds up to beating him but whoops. He's dead because you're a god now and there was never a shot of you losing.
 
Writing discussion is fine and I don't really think sonic is exactly lauded for its writing but it's not really the most relevant for a CRT in this case. Seems better suited to a general discussion thread
 
I have to unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can notify me later via my message wall if you need my help after you have reached a conclusion.
 
The real cal howard said:
That's not rule of cool. That's writing yourself into a corner for the sake of cool. Not the first case I've seen of it. Madara is an amazing example.
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Madara wasn't a hero and the author had to create a god to defeat him, so I agree.
 
That isn't actually true for Doomguy. You can listen to the data codices and read the notes throughout the game, he kinda tore through hell and they couldn't do much about it. The Cyberdemon is the only demon in the entire game not terrified of him, and Hell was only safe to start their incursion initially because of a fluke that saw Doomguy get stuck under a temple. Sure on my nightmare run an imp can 2 shot me, but story wise that imp never had a chance of being anything besides some more blood on his armor.

You're also perfectly capable of not playing a sonic game, I don't see why his games being easier than the ones I mentioned above (assuming you're playing at least UV for Doom like a normal perso) means he can't be more durable than his foes.
 
Being a non-hero doesn't mean you can't be cool or try to look cool to the readers, it makes them more threatening and yet still fun to watch.
 
00potato said:
Being a non-hero doesn't mean you can't be cool or try to look cool to the readers, it makes them more threatening and yet still fun to watch.
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The issue is how people view tension. They don't want to have the hero to be unstoppable but they will gladly accept the villain to be.

Saitama is an Exception because of how blatant his character is and how easy people can shrug off his character as a joke character.
 
@00potato If there is no other context then it's more accurate to assume someone who isn't a stone wall and got a power up (especially for the sake of beating somebody) isn't a stone wall when powered up than it is to assume that they are a stone wall. But I edited my post to include the clashing of Devil Doom's attacks with Shadow's which would most likely make Devil Doom a stone wall as well due to further context.
 
What, if you're talking to me? Look it was either 5-B Devil Doom with 4-A dura or 4-A Devil Doom with 4-A dura, the latter sounds more accurate to me. Now with Shadow's attacks clashing with his according to user. he'd have 4-A AP and 4-A dura but higher since Shadow can only hurt his eyes.
 
Yeah, you can shoot Chaos Spears at his attacks and if he really only had dura they would just bypass the attack, but the attack nullify each other
 
What ultimately needs to be realized is that Super Sonic isn't a form that's made for a struggle. When Super Sonic comes out to play, then it's game over for the opposition. Which is why there are games completely independent of the Chaos Emeralds in the refusal to have it as the ongoing trend. There's Super Sonic (+Hyper Sonic if you wanna go there) and that's it. It's set out as the ultimate goal for a reason. The stakes are created in such a way where others are at risk, not Super Sonic.

Complain about how the dangers to Super Sonic aren't high if you'd like, and I don't mean that disrespectfully, but that's the way it is. Now let's decide on how far above his Dura is compared to his AP so we can adjust his Durability description and be done with it please lol.
 
BlastX said:
Yeh, there's reasons why Super Sonic finales have stopped happening anymore.
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Not entirely the reason. There just has been a lot less Sonic games coming out compare to the 2000's. And Sonic Mania (2017) has a true ending where Super Sonic is Required.
 
Cal he had them in hammer space because he collected them before going in, it's not rocket science.
 
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