Sonic the Hedgehog CRT: Super Form Speed with a Side of Perfect Dark Gaia

[CloverDragon03]

But I still have other concerns. The statement also more implies the power to be at least as strong as Dark Gaia (Had Dark Gaia been where scaling starts, it easily would upgrade the End, but I wouldn't assume Dark Gaia is as strong as End). My vote is still on the offense for those reasons, but I will be okay with at most ratings if that's what the majority agrees with.

I will count your vote. That being said, I believe I accounted for this, given that Perfect Dark Gaia only scales to a casual version of The End (which would still be Low 1-C and Immeasurable). Once again, this isn't even necessarily the power it used against Super Sonic, and much less its true power.

As such, I believe it's incorrect to say I'm suggesting Dark Gaia is as strong as The End.

 

[JJSliderman]

I didn’t think the klepto mobile thing was a speed feat so much as a time hax resistance.

But I’m also sort of on the side that thinks modern base forms should just be relative to super form speed at this point (including the big stuff).

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Flat-out Immeasurable Super forms always felt off to me, so while my opinion doesn’t matter much here I will say I agree with this (Also makes the Super Mecha Sonic fight entirely not an outlier now which is cool)

I think Low 1-C for Perfect Dark Gaia makes sense for the reasons given. Also iirc it’s both Super Sonic and the Gaia Colossus against him, and Super Sonic is usually facing a Low 1-C enemy when he has backup so it checks out. Funnily enough that only leaves the Nega Mother Wisp and Egg Salamander as non-Low 1-C Modern Super bosses, and one of them is also a fight where Super Sonic teamed up with someone else.

Also wouldn’t Metal Overlord still have Immeasurable speed since he scales to a peak Super Sonic? Misread Master Overlord as Metal Overlord, whoops.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Also wouldn’t Metal Overlord still have Immeasurable speed since he scales to a peak Super Sonic? Misread Master Overlord as Metal Overlord, whoops.

Yeah, Metal Overlord is fine. Master Overlord is a jobber and a half

 

[JJSliderman]

Tbh base Sonic should be downscaling super form atp in speed, that’s just me though.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Tbh base Sonic should be downscaling super form atp in speed, that’s just me though.

I kinda agree just based on Frontiers. Sonic being always Immeasurable or even Infinite speed doesn’t make much sense narratively, but stuff like every Frontiers character being able to keep up with every Titan is too consistent to completely ignore imo. Plus there’s the whole “Eggman piloting certain machines somehow gives him Immeasurable reactions” thing. I feel like Sonic characters have like an “Immeasurable at peak” thing going on.

Also a question, would the restoring time feat in Generations, the escaping Null Space feat in Forces or the travelling Shatterspaces feat in Prime count as Infinite or Immeasurable speed feats? If any of them do then that’s more examples of Sonic going infinitely faster than normal.

 

[omegabronic]

nope on Sonic downscaling to his on Super Form, if even lesser speed amps such as the Spin Dash are already so much faster than his base to make it look like a statue in comparison, then the Super Form should not as well


but nevertheless, let's not talk about that here ok?

 

[Ghengiroo115]

nope on Sonic downscaling to his on Super Form, if even lesser speed amps such as the Spin Dash are already so much faster than his base to make it look like a statue in comparison, then the Super Form should not as well


but nevertheless, let's not talk about that here ok?

That’s from Prime, right? Doesn’t the games usually take precedence for feats?

Either way I’ll drop it for now.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Let's not derail with discussion about Infinite to Immeasurable Base Sonic please. That's irrelevant to all this

 

[CloverDragon03]

@Elizhaa @Starter_Pack

If you don't mind, could you provide input on this thread whenever you have time?

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

I agree with put a Varies rating in Super form users speed and with an "at most Low 1-C" for Dark Gaia

 

[Elizhaa]

I am also okay with Egg Reverie Zone feat being considered resistance to Time Manipulation; the rest seems fine.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I guess my stance is:

• MFTL+ to Immeasurable looks better
• The Klepto Mobile having Immeasurable speed looks suspect and I feel like a form of time resistance is better
• For Dark Gaia downscaling to the End I'm rather unsure about. Not only is the End vastly above it in either version of the ending but Tails also states the weapons the Ancients used to fight the End were equal to the Eclipse Cannon
  • Tails: Exactly. From what I can tell it has its own battery, independent of an outside power supply. Moreover, its capacity is ludicrous. It could level a mountain. It's almost up there with the Eclipse Cannon! But that was plugged into the ARK's reactor. This is free standing! The Ancients' designs are amazing.
• So I feel like "At most Low 1-C" fits better than a straight upgrade. Especially when Solaris sorta casually destroyed it which is where the Low 1-C scaling is coming from.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I guess my stance is:

• MFTL+ to Immeasurable looks better
• The Klepto Mobile having Immeasurable speed looks suspect and I feel like a form of time resistance is better
• For Dark Gaia downscaling to the End I'm rather unsure about. Not only is the End vastly above it in either version of the ending but Tails also states the weapons the Ancients used to fight the End were equal to the Eclipse Cannon
  • Tails: Exactly. From what I can tell it has its own battery, independent of an outside power supply. Moreover, its capacity is ludicrous. It could level a mountain. It's almost up there with the Eclipse Cannon! But that was plugged into the ARK's reactor. This is free standing! The Ancients' designs are amazing.
• So I feel like "At most Low 1-C" fits better than a straight upgrade. Especially when Solaris sorta casually destroyed it which is where the Low 1-C scaling is coming from.

I’ll note this down when I get home. Though for the record, I’m not sure how the blue laser things the Ancients used rivaling the Eclipse Cannon is an anti-feat given that said weaponry got clapped by The End

Judging by this, I believe “At least Low 2-C, possibly/at most Low 1-C” is accepted (I prefer possibly, but it’s honestly all semantics atp)

 

[ShakeResounding]

Oh, one last thing I wanted to discuss in lieu of Egg Reverie being treated as a Time Manip Resistance is layers.

Sonic can resist the influence of the Time Stones (Baseline Resistance).

Egg Reverie overpowers Base Sonic's resistance, leaving him helpless. (1 layer for the Reverie).

Super Forms are unaffected by the Egg Reverie, supported by how they become helpless once the transformation is rescinded (2 layers of Resistance for Supers). Excuse the clip of Knuckles lol

Chaos Control can freeze Supers (3rd and final layer).

To the staff in the thread, mind giving thoughts?

 

[Qawsedf234]

To the staff in the thread, mind giving thoughts?

It would be Timestone (Base) < Reverie (Super Layer 1) < Chaos Control (Layer 2).

I don't think it qualifies as three layers above baseline.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Qaw is right. Resisting the Egg Reverie Zone would be 1 layer of resistance

 

[ShakeResounding]

It would be Timestone (Base) < Reverie (Super Layer 1) < Chaos Control (Layer 2).

I don't think it qualifies as three layers above baseline.

Ah okay, gotcha

Good thing I brought it up here then. Chaos Control gets an additional layer from this then (as iirc it's only 1 layer atm)

 

[CloverDragon03]

Alright, I believe this is enough staff support to consider the speed revision and the Dark Gaia scaling accepted (with Perfect Dark Gaia being "At most Low 1-C")

I'll go ahead and begin applying changes

 

[CloverDragon03]

I've applied the changes. This can now be closed