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I agree that Heaven isn't as wide as the universe. Massively large compared to many other planets and possibly stars perhaps, but universal size is stretching it. Then again, it should have a massive population.
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Son Goku (Toei) / GT / Non-Canon Revision
- Thread starter The_2nd_Existential_Seed
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Also the same source that says the planet is as large as the universe says the universe is four galaxies.
Selective evidence and cherry picking much?
Selective evidence and cherry picking much?
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On a somewhat related note, Glass brought up a good point to me.
Since Janemba was made up of all the souls in the afterlife (which consists of all evildoers that have passed in the universe) gathered up over a period of thousands of years, does that give him very potent soul manipulation resistance and gives Gogeta very potent soul purging?
Since Janemba was made up of all the souls in the afterlife (which consists of all evildoers that have passed in the universe) gathered up over a period of thousands of years, does that give him very potent soul manipulation resistance and gives Gogeta very potent soul purging?
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Anyway, I don't really care about Heaven. What I care about is that super solid and incontestable galaxy level feat that SSJ3 Goku has.
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This feat is solid. What's not solid is whether is can apply or not.Kepekley23 said:
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I don't see why it can't apply. Why wouldn't it? Outlier? I'm honestly sick of people claiming that, especially with brand new forms and levels of power. We are way too quick to call outlier on everything.
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It can be applied. This entire canonicity argument is splitting hairs.
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Because it happened in the Janemba Movie, which very likely isn't canon to the Z Anime / GT.Assaltwaffle said:
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Whether it is, as far as the timeline goes, "canon" or not, it doesn't matter. As far as Word of God goes, each of the villains are built to be stronger than the previous ones from previous movies. Broly's feat is applicable in scaling to movieverse Goku.
We treat Toei Goku's feats as composite and always have, and nothing in our rules contradict this practice. In fact several franchises go by that practice here. In my view this is a backpedal to try and avoid a solid feat from being applied.
We treat Toei Goku's feats as composite and always have, and nothing in our rules contradict this practice. In fact several franchises go by that practice here. In my view this is a backpedal to try and avoid a solid feat from being applied.
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@Matt you do know that in the Janemba movie, you see the characters in the past movies reappear right? They all fit in that timeline, regardless of how dubious it is.
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If anything, GT is the equivalent of Breath of the Wild merging all three Zelda timelines into one, or Rebirth merging Post-Crises and Post-Flashpoint. GT does the same thing with Anime, Filler, and movies.
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HardTheglassman12 said:
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I don't think literally all the evil souls since others were purified for a better life as Piccolo stated and other escaped to earth, but a very massive of number of them since all the tanks exploded on him, then reality warped, froze an Oni and raised a barrier on the castle.The real cal howard said:
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@Dark it's still a looot of souls from beings across the universe for thousands of years that have been collected, and fused into one being.
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It absolutely does matter. If it's not canon it can't be applied. That's such a basic concept.
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@Matt a lot of movies are canon to the overall anime. GT is a continuation of the anime, and we see movie characters reappear.
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@Glass
No. We only see Cooler in GT.
You are likely mistaking the cameos of the villains in Hell that happens in Fusion Reborn with the cameo of the villains in Hell in the Super 17 Arc.
No. We only see Cooler in GT.
You are likely mistaking the cameos of the villains in Hell that happens in Fusion Reborn with the cameo of the villains in Hell in the Super 17 Arc.
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@Huesito yes he did.
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@Matt or the fact that Vegeta hints on the fact in GT that they've done the fusion dance before, which was in the fusion reborn movie.
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Well, in the shaking blog i said i'm ok with that for the last two z movies and GT, Goku profile is composite since anime/movies are in there so he gets it and i'll have to upgrade my char. blog. The only thing i disagreed with are the Buu and Heaven stuff, but after the new scaling is applied i will analyze these further.
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Well thats it. Fusion dance confirms Janemba is in GT canon
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Also to put the final nail in the coffin. Since Vegeta knowing the fusion dance pretty much guarantees Fusion Reborn being canon to the anime, in Frieza's appearance in the movie, you see characters from the movies that makes the following movies canon as well:
Dead Zone
World's Strongest
Tree of Might
All 3 Broly movies
and the Cooler movies are canon to the timeline thanks to GT's appearance.
So yeah, pretty much all the movies are canon in GT's warped timeline.
Dead Zone
World's Strongest
Tree of Might
All 3 Broly movies
and the Cooler movies are canon to the timeline thanks to GT's appearance.
So yeah, pretty much all the movies are canon in GT's warped timeline.
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No they are not.
Literally there is a 10 year gap between Z and GT. Vegeta knowing the Fusion Dance doesn't mean he leanred with Janemba.
World's Strongest and Tree of Might aren't canon and neither are all three Broly movies.
Literally there is a 10 year gap between Z and GT. Vegeta knowing the Fusion Dance doesn't mean he leanred with Janemba.
World's Strongest and Tree of Might aren't canon and neither are all three Broly movies.
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@Matt show proof that Goku and Vegeta have done the fusion dance in any other time that wasn't the Fusion Reborn movie. That's baseless assumption unless you can prove that he learned it in the 10 year peace. That's the equivalent of me saying that Goku could've easily learned the Mafuba in the 10 year gap despite no evidence of it at all.
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No, it's not a baseless assumption, it's just simple matter of fact. Vegeta using the Fusion Dance in GT doesn't mean that a movie that can't fit in the timeline is magically canon.Theglassman12 said:
Because it isn't.
And that's a false equivalence, we can't say Goku learned the Mafuba because he doesn't use it in GT.
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Also need to consider the fact that Vegeta hates the idea of fusing with Goku. Why would he ever even want to learn unless there's a villain much stronger than Buu that happened during the gap; which seems doubtful unless we consider Janemba canon. They also clearly state that they did the Fusion dance once before, and reference Vegeta "Bending one lousy finger"
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Do they really reference the fusion dance being done before in the original japanese. I'll need evidence of that that isn't memory based.
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Also the fact that Fusion Reborn features appearances from movies which are blatantly incompatible with the timeline (Tree of Might and World's Strongest), it provides more evidence that it - itself - isn't canon either.
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Garlic Jr.'s movie is incompatible with the anime, too. Still canon.
And this is all hair splitting.
And this is all hair splitting.
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@Matt Vegeta has only did the fusion once beforehand. And it is in the movie. How else does Vegeta know the fusion dance if he apparently never did it or saw it in canon.
Except that it's not false equivalence cause both abilities are things that both characters have never seen nor have done before in the past if you try to ignore the movies. The movies are the only answer as to why Vegeta knows about the fusion dance without Goku even asking him how it works.
Except that it's not false equivalence cause both abilities are things that both characters have never seen nor have done before in the past if you try to ignore the movies. The movies are the only answer as to why Vegeta knows about the fusion dance without Goku even asking him how it works.
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It isn't really.Kepekley23 said:
And it is canon because we see Garlic Jr. in the anime itself later.
I'm fine with Garlic Jr and Cooler being canon because anime appearance.
Not for everyone movie specially not the most egregious ones.
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Because we don't have information of everything that happened over the 10 years? What proof is there that he couldn't have learned the technique in such a long time gap? Seriously, it's not unbelievable.Theglassman12 said:
It isn't the only possible answer nor does it confirm.
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@Matt that's how the timeline in GT works, or even the movie timeline considering everything comes into one.
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Kep is right Dead Zone is supposed to take place the same day that Raditz stole Gohan by just looking at what the clothes and statements of Bulma and Master Roshi, but the Dead Zone Movie took place instead of Raditz, yet in the Filler Arc Garlic Jr. was mad at Piccolo and Gohan for his defeat in Dead Zone and Raditz stole Gohan.
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