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Son Goku (Toei) / GT / Non-Canon Revision

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Goku, Hirudegarn, Janemba, Gogeta, the higher Xenoverse tiers, GT starting from the Baby Arc...

Pikkon never hurt Janemba. He used his weakness to destabilize him, and only budged him while he was off guard.
 
Guys. Chill. The canonicity issue is not on topic and is not currently being pushed. In fact, Matt has gone with what is suggested in the OP already.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Also, Super Janemba and Super Gogeta from the movie are At least 3-C, not 3-B.
Click to expand...
I never put Super Janemba at 3-B though? Also shouldn't Fusion Reborn Gogeta be 3-B considering how big the fusion boost is and how small the gap between this feat and baseline 3-B is?

Kepekley23 said:
Goku, Hirudegarn, Janemba, Gogeta, the higher Xenoverse tiers, GT starting from the Baby Arc...

Pikkon never hurt Janemba. He used his weakness to destabilize him, and only budged him while he was off guard.
Click to expand...
Removed Pikkon and Olibu from the list.
 
Galaxy level:

  • SSJ3 Goku / Base GT Goku
  • Kid Buu and Super Buu (All forms)
  • Ultimate Gohan
  • SSJ and SSJ3 Gotenks
  • Hirudegarn
  • Janemba
  • Base Uub
  • General Rilldo
  • Baby Baby
At least Galaxy level:

  • Toei Vegito and SSJ Gogeta
  • Majuub
  • Baby Vegeta
  • SSJ - SSJ2 Vegeta (eventually)
  • SSJ - SSJ4 Goku
  • Super 17
Multi-Galaxy level:

  • Nuova and Eis, barely
  • SSJ4 Goku and Vegeta (EoS)
  • Syn and Omega Shenron
  • SSJ4 Gogeta
Something like this. Not comprehensive.
 
Janemba

  • Likely Galaxy level (Upon birth, he warped the entirety of the Other World's appearance to his will) | Galaxy level (Casually defeated a Super Saiyan 3 Goku and severely worn him out with a single ki blast. Easily sliced energy blasts from Goku in half, and powered up even further before being killed by Gogeta)
Hirudegar

  • Galaxy level (Traded blows with Super Saiyan 3 Goku)
 
@Promestein Pretty sure anybody that's comparable to SS1 GT Goku is Multi-Galaxy Lvl. We don't use the Super Saiyan multipliers but didn't SS1 always have a multiplier that's bigger than the highest Kaioken?
 
WAIT. Doesn't Goku go KKx100 in filler/ a movie (idk which)? That would mean that SSJ1 would be at least a 100x multiplier in Toeiverse
 
Peter1129 said:
@Promestein Pretty sure anybody that's comparable to SS1 GT Goku is Multi-Galaxy Lvl. We don't use the Super Saiyan multipliers but didn't SS1 always have a multiplier that's bigger than the highest Kaioken?
Click to expand...
^
 
@Prom should Fat Janemba scale to that? He got completely stomped by goku and couldn't lift a finger against him.
 
Apparently this guide talks about it being 100x. Obviously I cannot read Japanese, so can anyone confirm this?

Edit: Got a Translation, not sure if it's accurate, but it says

Break down evil !! Wishing !! Kaioken Hundredfold !!!

1 - Does Kaen fist apply to a Slug which is said to be stronger than Freeza?

2-> The power of Piccolo is borrowed and the king fist burst /

Ôåæ - Slug finally giant / fierce fight finally gets climax

About Janemba, his body seems to contort against Goku's blows, so that could be a reason he survived. Also Goku using energy blasts with punches caves in Jamemba's head, which he does survive.
 
I also think that Promestein's list should probably work.
 
We sure SSJ Gotenks would also scale? Goku was just confident that he would beat Fat Buu, that's all. He was not comparable to Super Buu either. Not that it matters as we don't have a page for Gotenks anyway.

The rest of the list seems fine.
 
We kinda ignore what was clearly stated in the final battle because we can't accept that Toei decided to retcon the series to make Goku stronger. Seriously.

And, regarding your earlier comment, the shaking was obviously very quantifiable in the Mercalli scale going by Grand Kai's chair falling and the ground cracking. The minimum distance is 46.5 billion light years. That's definitely quantifiable.
 
Kepekley23 said:
@AKM
SSJ Gotenks (pre-RoSaT) is stronger than SSj3 Goku.
Click to expand...
IIRC it was only said that SSJ Gotenks would be able to beat Fat Buu. Was there ever a direct comparison between him and SSj3 Goku?
 
Goku told Piccolo that Gotenks would be stronger than him and when Gotenks transformed Piccolo said that Gotenks's "really was" absolutely incredible, implying he had expectations on Gotenks's power that were met. Those expectations were that Gotenks would surpass Goku, since the latter said it himself.

  • Chapter: 476 (DBZ 282), P9.3
  • Piccolo: "If that bastard felt like it, he could wipe out the entire Earth, up here included, in the blink of an eye…!"
  • Goku: "It's alright, I don't think he'll take out the Earth. After all, I told him that in 2 days, someone stronger than me would fight him, and he seemed happy…"


  • Chapter: 482 (DBZ 288), P7.2-3
  • Context: after Super Saiyan Gotenks forms for the first time
  • Piccolo: "…Yeah…Your ki really is absolutely incredible', but how about your movement?...Show me a little."
really is:

1. in actual fact, as opposed to what is said or imagined to be true or possible.
 
Kepekley23 said:
We kinda ignore what was clearly stated in the final battle because we can't accept that Toei decided to retcon the series to make Goku stronger. Seriously.
Click to expand...
Goku zenkai must have been a damn good one after his fight with Majin Vegeta. I personally think that

SSJ3 Goku (Post Majin Vegeta/Zenkai) > SSJ3 Gotenks (Post Hyperbolic Time Chamber)
 
@Kep Goku was holding back when he said that to Buu. Anyway, SSJ Gotenks being stronger than a held back SSj3 Goku is fine.

I guess the changes can be applied now.
 
Nobody answered my question though. I'm pretty sure Super Saiyan 1 is accepted as an at least 40x multiplier here for canon dragon ball. And since this feat is a mere 11x away from baseline anybody wouldn't that make anybody that scales to SS1 GT Goku Multi-Galaxy Lvl?
 
Peter1129 said:
@Promestein Pretty sure anybody that's comparable to SS1 GT Goku is Multi-Galaxy Lvl. We don't use the Super Saiyan multipliers but didn't SS1 always have a multiplier that's bigger than the highest Kaioken?
Click to expand...
^
 
Peter1129 said:
Nobody answered my question though. I'm pretty sure Super Saiyan 1 is accepted as an at least 40x multiplier here for canon dragon ball. And since this feat is a mere 11x away from baseline anybody wouldn't that make anybody that scales to SS1 GT Goku Multi-Galaxy Lvl?
Click to expand...
I'm neutral with 3-B as long the god tier char. such Omega Shenron and SS4 Gogeta don't get the at least or becomes 3-A. Matthew already responded to it by saying is that he agress with 3-C, but at a lower value than Kep calc because he disagreed with Goku shacking all of the other world, so that the early SS1 GT char. remains at 3-C.
 
3-B is a pretty big tier I'm pretty sure Omega Shenron and Gogeta are just going to be a higher end of 3-B compared to the other 3-Bs in the verse. The whole reason current GT characters are 3-C is due to upscaling from a 4-A feat that's over 100x away from baseline in the first place using multipliers. So I find it hard to believe that they can't become 3-B with a mere 11x gap.

How much lower is the lowered value?
 
Dark649 said:
Peter1129 said:
Nobody answered my question though. I'm pretty sure Super Saiyan 1 is accepted as an at least 40x multiplier here for canon dragon ball. And since this feat is a mere 11x away from baseline anybody wouldn't that make anybody that scales to SS1 GT Goku Multi-Galaxy Lvl?
Click to expand...
I'm neutral with 3-B as long the god tier char. such Omega Shenron and SS4 Gogeta don't get the at least or becomes 3-A. Matthew already responded to it by saying is that he agress with 3-C, but at a lower value than Kep calc, so that the early SS1 GT char. remains at 3-C.
Click to expand...
3-A is too high for Omega Shenron and even SS4 Gogeta, Omega only has a feat where he would gradually destroy the universe i.e 3-B, he's nowhere near 3-A and Gogeta isn't either
 
Black Smoke Shenron's statement was that he instantly destroyed all the galaxies surrounding his home planet. That suggests a galaxy cluster getting destroyed so it's nowhere near baseline 3-B given the sheer gap we're talking about.
 
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