somewhat to not at all significant Undertale changes

[Funnimane]

Frisk

Should have the "Tier 8" tag since they got an 8-B key not long ago. Should also have the "Good Characters" tag removed, in a heartbeat they go from bringing about world peace to making themselves one of the deadliest serial killers in history.

Name: Frisk, The Human (By monsters), You (Influenced by the player to an unknown degree, the ideal name to give the character being one's own)

1. The Human isn't a name, they're referred to as that because the monsters don't know their name but do know that they are a human.
2. You isn't a name either, they're referred to as that when they're being referred to in the second person because that's the pronoun for referring to someone in the second person.

Classification: Human child, "The Angel" (Believed to be so, despite it likely being someone else)

Frisk is completely ruled out from being the angel since they don't "return" to the underground, it's their first time there.

Longevity (A human's SOUL can exist for millennia)

Should probably be specified as Longevity for their soul, and should have a scan linked for the dialogue stating that.

at least City Block level with immense amounts of Determination (The full power of Frisk's SOUL rivals the entire Underground, made minimum damage to Photoshop Flowey, who was holding back, but was unable to hurt Asriel)

1. You can't hold back your physical durability, so there's no reason to bring that up. Just in case it matters, Flowey isn't a monster, he's a sentient plant.
2. I assume "minimum damage" means 1 hit point. A bit later on in the fight (before pacifying all the souls), Frisk can also do a few more points per hit. It could just be because the souls they pacified so far were helping them, but I don't think that's the case since there was no announcement of Flowey's DEF dropping or Frisk's ATK increasing.

Range: Standard melee range with weapons, Universal via SAVE

Higher using the yellow button on their upgraded cell phone, which lets them shoot projectiles. Upgraded cell phone could also be listed in their optional equipment since they only get it in pacifist or neutral.

Chara

Should have "Eldritch Horrors" tag removed. They aren't one.

Chara is the default name of the first human to fall into the Underground.

It's not. That's their "true" name, there is no default name.

Tier: Low 2-C

Should be specified as Low 2-C at "the absolute"/when Frisk is at their most ruthless. Chara certainly can't smack the universe out of existence the whole game. Also could have an "unknown" key for their non-absolute dead self, and a 'likely 9-B' for their pre-death self, since Asriel also has a key for his actually featless pre-death self.

Resurrection (Should be able to rewind time upon death like Frisk)

Explain...

Flowey/Asriel

Please remove the yandere characters tag

At least Multi-City Block level, likely far higher (Even at the peak of their Determination, Frisk can only deal minimum damage to him)

Not their peak, just highly determined.

Mettaton

Striking Strength: Unknown

He has a 9-A AP feat for busting a hole through a wall and can harm mid-determination Frisk with his zappy attack, magic attacks being counted for striking strength in this verse.

Stamina: Limitless

His second and presumably third forms have low battery life.

Intelligence: Incredibly high, though his vanity can often get the better of him.

There's no justification provided here that MTT's intelligence is "incredibly high", and if my memory serves me correctly, he's a dumbass.

Monster Kid

Why is he on the wiki?

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Frisk

Should have the "Tier 8" tag since they got an 8-B key not long ago. Should also have the "Good Characters" tag removed, in a heartbeat they go from bringing about world peace to making themselves one of the deadliest serial killers in history.

Nah bro. Did you read AC or WAC? Frisk passed a Pacifist route and likely left world with that. everyone happy, even Flowey.

 

[Funnimane]

Nah bro. Did you read AC or WAC? Frisk passed a Pacifist route and likely left world with that. everyone happy, even Flowey.

They also literally do a holocaust depending on what the voice in their head decides would be fun.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

agree with Angel thingy.
Angel is described as someone who got Monster on their hands.
Does Frisk have Monsters on their or in their hands? No. But Asriel does.
and Chara actually got Monster ash on their hands, so I think this maybe count too

 

[Deleted member 16409]

They also literally do a holocaust depending on what the voice in their head decides would be fun.

you didn't understand what I'm trying to say.
Frisk in canon variant where Player possible doesn't exist passed pacifist route.
There's no True Genocide happened because there's no Chara and etc. So I mean that Frisk with their own will just do pacifist route and DON'T EVEN CHANGE IT.
And, can you see.. Player soul is obviously controlling them, since in code it's mentions like "ourheart". gg then.

 

[QuasiYuri]

you didn't understand what I'm trying to say.
Frisk in canon variant where Player possible doesn't exist passed pacifist route.
There's no True Genocide happened because there's no Chara and etc. So I mean that Frisk with their own will just do pacifist route and DON'T EVEN CHANGE IT.
And, can you see.. Player soul is obviously controlling them, since in code it's mentions like "ourheart". gg then.

Nothing in "canon" actually says Frisk is just good and stopped at Pacifist. In fact, the existence of Post-Genocide Pacifist flat out indicates that it is expected that they do the genocide route as part of the story's natural progression.

The idea of "Frisk good Chara bad" is just part of the fanon, as much as "Sans remembers the resets" is.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Nothing in "canon" actually says Frisk is just good and stopped at Pacifist. In fact, the existence of Post-Genocide Pacifist flat out indicates that it is expected that they do the genocide route as part of the story's natural progression.

there's no likely Post Geno. And then, it still means pacifist route and NOT destroyed world. Check Winter Alarm Clock please.

The idea of "Frisk good Chara bad" is just part of the fanon, as much as "Sans remembers the resets" is.

I'm not saying Chara bad, I'm sick of that after 6 years.

 

[Funnimane]

there's no likely Post Geno. And then, it still means pacifist route and NOT destroyed world. Check Winter Alarm Clock please.

Chara brings back the world after the genocide route is first completed. You can play either route again after first completing genocide. Check Undertale please.

 

[QuasiYuri]

there's no likely Post Geno. And then, it still means pacifist route and NOT destroyed world. Check Winter Alarm Clock please.

It's litteraly in the game and the change is clearly acknowledged. I won't qualify someone whose curiosity includes killing everything and everyone as "good" even if they try to correct that.
Also I didn't see anything in the Winter Alarm Clock which is supposed to contradict the game.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Chara brings back the world after the genocide route is first completed. You can play either route again after first completing genocide. Check Undertale please.

It's litteraly in the game and the change is clearly acknowledged. I won't qualify someone whose curiosity includes killing everything and everyone as "good" even if they try to correct that.
Also I didn't see anything in the Winter Alarm Clock which is supposed to contradict the game.

Winter Alarm Clock is described as like Q&A to Undertale. I'm acknowledge about Geno route. But in WAC there High likely wasn't even just Geno route. There's no even Chara backs.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

UNDERTALE 5th Anniversary Alarm Clock Winter Dialogue - Asgore

UNDERTALE! The RPG game where you don't have to destroy anyone.

undertale.com

There clearly described that Frisk stopped at Pacifist route.
but it's actually unknown was there just neutral routes before Pacifist.
so I think that this should left as "possibly good character"

 

[Funnimane]

Winter Alarm Clock is described as like Q&A to Undertale. I'm acknowledge about Geno route. But in WAC there High likely wasn't even just Geno route. There's no even Chara backs.

There clearly described that Frisk stopped at Pacifist route.
but it's actually unknown was there just neutral routes before Pacifist.
so I think that this should left as "possibly good character"

I'm trying so hard to respond to this but I can't even figure out what your argument is...

 

[Deleted member 16409]

I'm trying so hard to respond to this but I can't even figure out what your argument is...

I'm bad at English. So.
Видишь ли, так как в игре персонаж под контролем игрока, там их выбор уже зависит от нас.
Но в WAC там уже чётко сказано что мир игры остановлен на пацифисте. МОЖЕШЬ ЛИ ТЫ ЭТОГО ВООБЩЕ ПОНЯТЬ? Кхм, Чары вероятно нет так как никакого упоминаний об убийствах то и не было. Так что Геноцид не пройден Фриском в каноне. Но это неизвестно были ли там нейтральные концовки до прохождения Пацифиста, так что думаю там стоит оставить тэг под "possibly good character".
Да и если бы Фриск хотели уничтожить всё и вся, то WAC как такого бы и не было.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

TL;DR
there wasn't geno route, Frisk stopped at pacifist

 

[Funnimane]

Видишь ли, так как в игре персонаж под контролем игрока, там их выбор уже зависит от нас.
Но в WAC там уже чётко сказано что мир игры остановлен на пацифисте. МОЖЕШЬ ЛИ ТЫ ЭТОГО ВООБЩЕ ПОНЯТЬ? Кхм, Чары вероятно нет так как никакого упоминаний об убийствах то и не было. Так что Геноцид не пройден Фриском в каноне. Но это неизвестно были ли там нейтральные концовки до прохождения Пацифиста, так что думаю там стоит оставить тэг под "possibly good character".
Да и если бы Фриск хотели уничтожить всё и вся, то WAC как такого бы и не было.

^ according to google translate:
You see, since in the game the character is under the control of the player, their choice there already depends on us.
But in the WAC it is already clearly stated that the game world is stopped on the pacifist. CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THIS AT ALL? Ahem, Chara probably isn't there, since there was no mention of the murders. So the Genocide was not passed by Frisk in the canon. But it is not known whether there were neutral endings before the passage of the Pacifist, so I think it is worth leaving the tag under "possibly good character".
And if Frisk wanted to destroy everything and everyone, then WAC would not have been like that.

You see, since in the game the character is under the control of the player, their choice there already depends on us.

In that case, Frisk isn't good for choosing to not kill anything since we're the one who made that choice.

But in the WAC it is already clearly stated that the game world is stopped on the pacifist.

Because we, not Frisk, decided not to restart the game. Still no points towards Frisk being good.

Ahem, Chara probably isn't there, since there was no mention of the murders. So the Genocide was not passed by Frisk in the canon.

That's not how Undertale's continuity works. The continuity between each playthrough is subjective, varying according to how you end up playing. You're treating WAC as Undertale's canonical continuity; it's not. It's a fun special thing where the characters do endearing monologues in a pacifist route timeline. Nothing suggests otherwise. One of Undertale's core themes is that your choices have consequences; it wouldn't make sense for there to be a one true canon ending where this and that happens.

But it is not known whether there were neutral endings before the passage of the Pacifist, so I think it is worth leaving the tag under "possibly good character".

That's not how tags work...

And if Frisk wanted to destroy everything and everyone, then WAC would not have been like that.

Stay consistent with your own logic. If the player is the one who makes every choice, which you used to make them blameless for doing a holocaust in the genocide route, then we're the one who "canonically" decided to stop at a pacifist route, not Frisk, so Frisk isn't a good person because of it.

Any which way, your argument doesn't work.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

I think you didn't even understand then. it's like arguing with Sans fans, useless even if you right. Your argument don't work. Don't really bother. I'm Undertale theorist, DON'T BOTHER. IT'S USELESS.
and btw, I agree with other posts.
But not agree with Mettaton intellect.
IIRC Mettaton acting like that because Alphys asked him to act like this.

 

[Funnimane]

I think you didn't even understand then. it's like arguing with Sans fans, useless even if you right. Your argument don't work. Don't really bother. I'm Undertale theorist, DON'T BOTHER. IT'S USELESS.

Are you okay?

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Are you okay?

I am, just don't know how to say that due to my English low level, ok?

 

[Deleted member 16409]

(sorry)

 

[Funnimane]

(sorry)

It's fine, we're talking about the most meaningless part of a piece of fiction.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

It's fine, we're talking about the most meaningless part of a piece of fiction.

ok.
But about Mettaton, I still think that his intellect is high. He's not a jerk.
It's Alphys spectacle IIRC there was some dialogue and evidence of this

 

[Funnimane]

bum

 

[Funnimane]

p

 

[Eficiente]

Should have the "Tier 8" tag since they got an 8-B key not long ago. Should also have the "Good Characters" tag removed, in a heartbeat they go from bringing about world peace to making themselves one of the deadliest serial killers in history.

Nothing in "canon" actually says Frisk is just good and stopped at Pacifist. In fact, the existence of Post-Genocide Pacifist flat out indicates that it is expected that they do the genocide route as part of the story's natural progression.

The idea of "Frisk good Chara bad" is just part of the fanon, as much as "Sans remembers the resets" is.

Actually that is the player controlling Frisk, as implied by Flowey saying so at the end of the Pacifist run, practically begging us to let Frisk be and have a live and in Sans' battle talking about the anomaly doing what it does, only to later Chara talk to them and acknowledge their actions (which Frisk executed) as the anomaly's own. Frisk's true nature is revealed near the end of the Pacifist run, so yes, "Frisk good".

They also literally do a holocaust depending on what the voice in their head decides would be fun.

To clarify, "voice in their head" implies it is in part their own choice. That has no reason to be and goes against we not "letting" Frisk be Frisk and we having made he decision of holocaust. Even if we ignore how players control characters they play as and we are the player, based on what's stated we still are some entity controlling Frisk.

Edit: Now that I think about it "voice in their head" is a fanon thing, relating the literal control the player has and the parts of it that are Chara to more understandable things like being mad and having an alternate persona taking control or the like.

1. The Human isn't a name, they're referred to as that because the monsters don't know their name but do know that they are a human.

Being referred as some way can still be registered, even if they do so per ignorance. I disagree with removing it but if it happens it doesn't really matter.

1. You isn't a name either, they're referred to as that when they're being referred to in the second person because that's the pronoun for referring to someone in the second person.

Yes, that should be removed.

Frisk is completely ruled out from being the angel since they don't "return" to the underground, it's their first time there.

Iirc they are believed to be so by others, which counts as them being classified as such. Again, I disagree with removing it but if it happens it doesn't really matter.

Should probably be specified as Longevity for their soul, and should have a scan linked for the dialogue stating that.

Sure.

Higher using the yellow button on their upgraded cell phone, which lets them shoot projectiles. Upgraded cell phone could also be listed in their optional equipment since they only get it in pacifist or neutral.

Sure.

Should have "Eldritch Horrors" tag removed. They aren't one.

Reading what the category says, it seems to be overused when undeserved.

It's not. That's their "true" name, there is no default name.

True.

Should be specified as Low 2-C at "the absolute"/when Frisk is at their most ruthless. Chara certainly can't smack the universe out of existence the whole game.

While true, profiles do put characters at their peak, so we will see.

Also could have an "unknown" key for their non-absolute dead self, and a 'likely 9-B' for their pre-death self, since Asriel also has a key for his actually featless pre-death self.

We could. We will see.

Please remove the yandere characters tag

Yes.

Not their peak, just highly determined.

Yes.

 

[Eficiente]

In fact, the existence of Post-Genocide Pacifist flat out indicates that it is expected that they do the genocide route as part of the story's natural progression.

Needless to say this too I disagree with. It is expected as in "it could happen", but not as in "it did happen in what we know of UT canon". It's just the option to make an irreversible error, just a possibility. By that logic then Flowey implies the most amount of players won't do it because he knows a higher amount than each making a video about it will watch it w/o having done it themselves, as it is expected that they won't. Do it or not do it are both options with neither being firmly put as more likely.

One could bring up Deltarune but it sets nothing in stone yet and nothing can be taken from it. Even if it does have an Undertale timeline from which Chara did come to invade then for all we know there could be more than one Undertale timeline and Chara came from one where their rute happened.

 

[XVII]

so is this gonna be added or

 

[Funnimane]

so is this gonna be added or

Most of these are hopefully no-brainers, but most of them are also relating to locked pages.

 

[XVII]

i see. you might wanna call some staff to get this through

shouldn't be that hard or take that long

 

[Antvasima]

What QuasiYuri and Eficiente have accepted here can probably be applied.

 

[Funnimane]

What QuasiYuri and Eficiente have accepted here can probably be applied.

They didn't cover everything and they disagree with eachother on one of them, but just getting some out of the way would be nice.
Frisk, Flowey and Chara need unlocking.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Tell me here when you are done.

 

[Funnimane]

Okay. Tell me here when you are done.

Dunno where to find the scan for human souls existing for millennia, but other than that done for now.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will re-lock the pages then.

What else is left to do here?

 

[Funnimane]

Okay. I willrelock the pages then.

What else is left to do here?

The following points haven't had a conclusion reached about them, what am I doing with the limited time I have on this earth:

(frisk AP city block, can deal minimum damage to photoshop flowey who was holding back, yadda yadda)

1. You can't hold back your physical durability, so there's no reason to bring that up. Just in case it matters, Flowey isn't a monster, he's a sentient plant.
2. I assume "minimum damage" means 1 hit point. A bit later on in the fight (before pacifying all the souls), Frisk can also do a few more points per hit. It could just be because the souls they pacified so far were helping them, but I don't think that's the case since there was no announcement of Flowey's DEF dropping or Frisk's ATK increasing.

(Frisk) should also have the "Good Characters" tag removed, in a heartbeat they go from bringing about world peace to making themselves one of the deadliest serial killers in history.

(Chara's tier) should be specified as Low 2-C at "the absolute"/when Frisk is at their most ruthless. Chara certainly can't smack the universe out of existence the whole game. Also could have an "unknown" key for their non-absolute dead self, and a 'likely 9-B' for their pre-death self, since Asriel also has a key for his actually featless pre-death self.

Monster Kid

Why is he on the wiki?

 

[Antvasima]

@QuasiYuri @Eficiente

What do you think about the above post?

 

[Eficiente]

• Well, physical durability going down if one feels like it makes perfect sense to me given the weird power system in UT, with stats going up via motivation, and O. Flowey could warp reality and his body at will, him toying with Frisk with lower power could include lower durability too.
• Idk what to make to the second bit.
• I went over this in my first 2 comments.
• As said before, we coulddo that on Chara. To note, some things that are truly vague about them:
  • Technically by lore their soul should have been destroyed when they died, but this messes up Sans' comment over how they should be burning in hell and how Chara comments over the existence of hell I think twice. If we awkwardly ignore the latter two things, then in what state was Chara possessing Frisk? Was it a soul? Or were they basically nonexistent and lacked even a soul? (The latter kinda fits to how they want the anomaly's soul, but that proves nothing)
  • How Chara shows up at the end; Did they do so in Frisk's mind? Was it only to the anomaly by to messing with the game via reality warping?, or did they physically create a body for themselves? If it's not the latter then are they a soul or are they basically nonexistent & lacked even a soul?
  • = Basically it seems be a mess to give Chara that key, the profile already tries to make sense of what they have at their peak, but it's more messy to claim and affirm how they were before, what they lacked before, and what they gained by the end.
• Neutral about Monster Kid being nuked as it has some common powers monsters have.

 

[Antvasima]

So what do you think that we should currently do here in summary?