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Some Random RWBY CRT

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Wokistan

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So I assume by posting that video you are chosing to drop the claim that there's no conflict between a process of releasing energy and a process of withdrawing it?
 

Wokistan

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So how exactly do you plan on reconciling that statement with the displayed feat?
 

Sir_Ovens

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You posted the explosion feat but that's not where the 8-A comes from. It came from the calc that I posted of Weiss creating an ice structure to harm the mech.

That feat was done by freezing, and you're using that output to scale to the Dust canisters exploding.

These are two seperate processes. Each process is done using a completely different method of energy transferral.

Universal energy source isn't even an argument here because the two processes above are fundamentally different.
 

WeeklyBattles

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You posted the explosion feat but that's not where the 8-A comes from. It came from the calc that I posted of Weiss creating an ice structure to harm the mech.

That feat was done by freezing, and you're using that output to scale to the Dust canisters exploding.

These are two seperate processes. Each process is done using a completely different method of energy transferral.

Universal energy source isn't even an argument here because the two processes above are fundamentally different.
Yes, because Dust is a universal energy source. Doesnt matter that theyre two different processes as the energy used to perform both feats is the same energy, the only difference is application. The freezing feat was done by Weiss controlling the Ice Dust using her Aura, letting her utiliz its energy to freeze th water directly, whereas in the scene with th lancer she detonated it in its raw form to create an explosion
 

Wokistan

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If we want an analogy for this sort of universal energy system thing, here we go. I'll make it even easier and not use freezing so both processes are just energy output.

Say I got some RDX. That's an explosive and the main ingredient in C4. Got a lot of stored up chemical energy that it can release in a reaction.

Now say I heat up that RDX with a blowtorch or something. Let's say that I'm somehow in no danger of setting it off or igniting it, I am simply putting my fuel at a higher temperature. Actually, we can just say that it's heated up to a temperature too low to cause fire or anything possible of igniting it, it helps me prove my point a bit better.

So we got our RDX that's at let's say 100 degrees Fahrenheit because I'm carrying it around on a hot and sunny day. Any ATF members reading this, please look away. I don't want anyone throwing flashbangs into baby cradles or shooting dogs near me. This RDX, being kinda hot, would output a bit of heat if juxtaposed with a cooler object. This RDX detonating would output a whole lotta heat and force. We got one source facilitating an energy output in two different ways.

So my question to you universal energy source fans here would be as follows: Would you be in support of ignoring reality and saying that my hot RDX is actually outputting heat equivalent to its explosive output, probably implying that it's actually scorching everything around it despite only being 100 degrees? If so, why?
 

Sir_Ovens

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I don't think you understand. An explosion releases energy, freezing takes away energy. Universal energy source argument would only work if both processes do the same thing.

If the energy source I use to move clouds is the same energy source I use to shoot spells at you it scales because both are an output of energy.

Freezing fundamentally can't scale to energy release because that's not what it does.
 

Wokistan

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Anyways, my laundry is done, it's like 2:30 am, I'm going to sleep. I hope that I do not awake to angry DMs, the rule violations report thread, or the alphabet boys kicking my door down and shooting me 37 times in the back in self defense.
 
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I don't think you understand. An explosion releases energy, freezing takes away energy. Universal energy source argument would only work if both processes do the same thing.

If the energy source I use to move clouds is the same energy source I use to shoot spells at you it scales because both are an output of energy.

Freezing fundamentally can't scale to energy release because that's not what it does.
Yes freezing stuff its about dispersing heat/energy, however it is also true that for things like refrigerators need energy to generate cold, its not like they can work without electricity.

Freezing objects (especially in a matter of seconds) does requid a lot of energy, unless you want to say that everyone who had Ice Manipulation are also able to erase energy.
 

WeeklyBattles

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Yes freezing stuff its about dispersing heat/energy, however it is also true that for things like refrigerators need energy to generate cold, its not like they can work without electricity.

Freezing objects (especially in a matter of seconds) does requid a lot of energy, unless you want to say that everyone who had Ice Manipulation are also able to erase energy.
Chill boyo, we're gonna work with the fire dust feat from the Lancer fight instead to save everyone a collective headache
 

Ricsi-viragosi

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Yes freezing stuff its about dispersing heat/energy, however it is also true that for things like refrigerators need energy to generate cold, its not like they can work without electricity.

Freezing objects (especially in a matter of seconds) does requid a lot of energy, unless you want to say that everyone who had Ice Manipulation are also able to erase energy.
But the energy required to do this is not linear with the cooling done. And you know, refrigerators use a chemical reaction that's not really equitable to nearly anything else (making a liquid become gas in a manner that causes it to remove heat from its surroundings, this specifically needing the compound refrigerant to be achieved).ú

Edit: The fire stuff should work from a glance, though.
 

WeeklyBattles

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Ive updated the calc, angsizing knocked the result down to 8-B for the individual fireballs but with multipliers the end result for the queen lancer scaling and ultimately post haven is still solidly 8-A+
 
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Wow, what a shock, a bunch of people came out saying they disagree with the multiplier. Almost like it wasn’t discussed about at all and was instead assumed to be accepted.

Anyway, so are they getting downgraded to 8-B off of that calc now or what.
 

WeeklyBattles

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I mean after discussion the people who were initially against it are now in agreement so no, they're staying 8-A with post-beacom being potentially upgraded to 8-B via the new calc
 
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I mean after discussion the people who were initially against it are now in agreement so no, they're staying 8-A with post-beacom being potentially upgraded to 8-B via the new calc
Like who? Wokistan and Sir Ovens seem to be in quite heavy disagreement that the calc scales to anyone at all due to the different processes of energy usages: exploding vs freezing.
 

WeeklyBattles

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Like who? Wokistan and Sir Ovens seem to be in quite heavy disagreement that the calc scales to anyone at all due to the different processes of energy usages: exploding vs freezing.
They did, which is why we decided to use the fire dust explosions from the same fight scene instead, which they both agreed with using instead of the ice feat and which still came out to 8-A
 
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By the dust canisters as there is fire dust inside those crates and one fire dust can did that 8-B feat. As fire dust is like gunpowder so if one can of it can do the 8-B feat then 13 is 8-A if that makes sense

But 14 tons times 13 is 185.913 tons
 
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By the dust canisters as there is fire dust inside those crates and one fire dust can did that 8-B feat. As fire dust is like gunpowder so if one can of it can do the 8-B feat then 13 is 8-A if that makes sense

But 14 tons times 13 is 185.913 tons
Yeah, I know that. But the value given above was 600+?
 

Sir_Ovens

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It's not hidden behind Discord. It's just way easier to clarify things on discord since the messaging is updated in real-time. In addition, all the points from the discussion need to be brought up here in order for the revision to go through anyway, so it really doesn't change anything.

Anyway the calc needs to be approved by the calc group in order to go through.
 

WeeklyBattles

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With no real explanation as to why other than 'i dont think it looks that big'...
 
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WeeklyBattles

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How many times are we multiplying this by again?
Weiss uses 8 fireballs in that fight so assuming thats th max amount of dust in her fire dust canister thats 232157826026 joules per as her max output, multiplied by 5 as thats the amount of canisters in the crate we saw opened gives us 1.1607891e+12 joules, 277 tons of TNT
 
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How many times are we multiplying this by again?
1 fireball = 6.9 tons (High 8-C+, scales to haven people I guess)
8 fireballs in one canister = 6.9*8 = 55.2 tons (8-B, doesn't scale to anyone I think)
5 canisters in one crate = 55.2*5 = 276 tons (8-A, scales to Queen Lancer who tanked it, Gigas who killed the Queen Lancer, and then Vernal who one shot the Gigas)
*13 crates = 276*13 = 3588 tons = 3.588 kilotons (Low 7-C, same scaling as 8-A but higher)
 
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So there were 5 canisters of red Dust in 13 crates?
No, absolutely not. Literally impossible. In no universe are there only 5 canisters there. Weiss could be the supidest character in the world and she wouldn't bring 13 crates of dust with only 5 of probably the most widely used and known dust type.

So the 8-A value is honestly impossible to use.
 

WeeklyBattles

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No, absolutely not. Literally impossible. In no universe are there only 5 canisters there. Weiss could be the supidest character in the world and she wouldn't bring 13 crates of dust with only 5 of probably the most widely used and known dust type.
She didnt bring them though, they were the cargo of the pilot's ship
 
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Yes stopping a punch can be used as LS as you stop it's force as we scale lifting strength in metric tons (force)
By that logic, all of the demon slayer characters should be Class M cause they can stop Tanjiro's blade when he swings it.

Stopping the punch means she scales to the Mech's lifting strength. That does not make that calc applicable to be the Mech's lifting strength. In fact, from what I've seen, that specific type of calc is used for AP rather than LS, and the results garnered from Weekly are 9-A. So should anyone that can catch a 9-A character's punch be Class M?
 
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They should, yes
No, they shouldn’t, because scaling LS from single instances of strikes is not logical.
Did you even read or see what is happening in that feat? Wolfram’s metal is that heavy when applying force from its own weight, not from breaking concrete in a single instance.

Neither All Might nor Wolfram are destroyiny anything and then using the force they broke something with to scale from LS. Wolfram is attacking All Might and entering an actual push-struggle with several metal pillars, which, when factoring in speed, produced a certain mass, that All Might held back as it continued to push against him for several seconds.

The issue I have with Yang’s calc is that it assumes the LS from a single instance of striking, not a prolonged one. Wolfram kept pushing in order to exert that force. Roman punched once to break the pillar. If Roman had taken several moments to break through the pillar, then you could argue it would be LS based. But breaking it in a single strike is not indicative of what he can bench press at all.

Roman’s feat is more similar to Tanjiro’s than anything else. A single strike breaks object. That does not translate to lifting strength.

All Might’s feat is a push-contest. Several pillars push against him, he holds them back, their weight is calculated to find what he is holding back.

Those two calcs are not the same at all.

In order for the Yang calc to be similar, Yang would have to be pushing against the Mech for a prolonged period of time; and then you would find the force the Mech is pressing upon her NOT from it breaking concrete, but from its own weight and speed.
 
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Saying those two calcs are the same is big “I didn’t read or see the feat at all” energy btw. Even the methods for finding the LS are incredibly different. I don’t even know how you guys came to that conclusion.
 

WeeklyBattles

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If you'd like i can mak a thread to confirm that Yang's feat is useable, because w hav dozns of verses that all use similar feats, to the point that we literally added Nwtons to the lifting strngth page to mak it easier to understand
 

WeeklyBattles

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Lifting Strength is defined as the mass that an individual can lift on Earth. In other words it measures the amount of upwards force a character can produce. As such appropriate pushing and pulling feats are also considered a part of this statistic. Telekinesis or other similar abilities must be specifically referred to as separate from physical strength, when used in a lifting feat. Tearing is also included in this category, but it is an unreliable method of calculating overall lifting ability a vast majority of the time. This is because the force used in a tearing motion is much lower than a lift, as a tearing motion uses much fewer muscle groups and is an awkward application of force compared to other movements. Likewise throwing an object a certain height upwards can be used as lifting feats, as these would require greater strength then just lifting the object.
 
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It’s late where I live and I have a massive headache. But I massively disagree with the Lancer’s multipliers. Like currently right now that makes the queen lancer: stronger than the 8-A mech, the Grimm dragon, the Grimm leviathan, and nearly puts it as strong as the maidens. By per scaling alone this is already a mess, but it also ignores what is shown. The explosion the Lancer takes is nowhere close to small town level in any way, shape, or form, but I’m supposed to believe a nearly 100 times multiplier from Weiss’ feat? I have never seen an multiplier so desperately stretched (ignoring dragon ball for obvious reasons, that verse is wanked). Ignoring how some of the multipliers just don’t make sense to me. Tanking 13 identical attacks shouldn’t make you 13 times stronger. If 5 people, all the same strength, punch you at once you don’t tank an attack 5 times stronger than them. You just survive 5 individual attacks. I also don’t get the 8 times multiplier either, it being able to shoot 8 fireballs shouldn’t multiple it, by that logic whenever a wizard cast a spell we would multiply their ap by how many times they could cast the spell. We don’t do that, so I don’t see why we times these canisters.

Though, note, I’m tired, annoyed, have a headache, and am currently doing school work. So I’m not going to be back for a while, and this is probably the worst time to say this. I just couldn’t stop myself, I needed to get this off my chest.
 
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Lifting Strength is defined as the mass that an individual can lift on Earth. In other words it measures the amount of upwards force a character can produce. As such appropriate pushing and pulling feats are also considered a part of this statistic. Telekinesis or other similar abilities must be specifically referred to as separate from physical strength, when used in a lifting feat. Tearing is also included in this category, but it is an unreliable method of calculating overall lifting ability a vast majority of the time. This is because the force used in a tearing motion is much lower than a lift, as a tearing motion uses much fewer muscle groups and is an awkward application of force compared to other movements. Likewise throwing an object a certain height upwards can be used as lifting feats, as these would require greater strength then just lifting the object.
I have no issue with scaling Yang to the Mech via stopping its punch, thats obvious.

I have issue with saying the Mech has that lifting strength because it was NOT a push or pull. It was a punch, which I'm certain was agreed to no longer count for LS.
 

WeeklyBattles

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I have no issue with scaling Yang to the Mech via stopping its punch, thats obvious.

I have issue with saying the Mech has that lifting strength because it was NOT a push or pull. It was a punch, which I'm certain was agreed to no longer count for LS.
The mech doesnt have that lifting strength, thats just the force of its punch
 

WeeklyBattles

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It’s late where I live and I have a massive headache. But I massively disagree with the Lancer’s multipliers. Like currently right now that makes the queen lancer: stronger than the 8-A mech, the Grimm dragon, the Grimm leviathan, and nearly puts it as strong as the maidens.
Im not sure you understand how big the gap betwen all of those characters is. The gap between th Queen Lancer and the Leviathan is a bit over 10x, the dragon is over 25x, and the Maidens are fuckin City level now, the Queen Lancer is nowhere near as strong as any of them.
Tanking 13 identical attacks shouldn’t make you 13 times stronger. If 5 people, all the same strength, punch you at once you don’t tank an attack 5 times stronger than them. You just survive 5 individual attacks. I also don’t get the 8 times multiplier either, it being able to shoot 8 fireballs shouldn’t multiple it, by that logic whenever a wizard cast a spell we would multiply their ap by how many times they could cast the spell. We don’t do that, so I don’t see why we times these canisters.
Its not tanking 13 separate attacks, its tanking 13 bombs combined into a single bomb. This is literally how Tons of TNT measurement works irl, just piling TNT on to make bigger explosions
 

WeeklyBattles

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In the case of Fire Dust its essentially like dynamite, if you take a stick of dynamite and tak all the nitroglycerin out of it and separate it into 8 piles and set them off, the explosions will be smaller, but if you combine them into one stick the explosion is stronger. Combine multiple sticks of dynamite together and the explosion is even stronger. Its the same principle here.
 
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The maidens are city level with their powers. In base they are town level. I have no clue where you are getting the leviathan being 10 times stronger. Based off the multiplier posted earlier it’s at most 3 times stronger and likely weaker as its 8-A and it says the lancer can be low 7-C.

The Grimm dragon would definitely still be stronger, but by a somewhat small amount, yeah 25 times may seem big, but the next best feats are vastly lower and preformed by a Grimm of comparable class (the next best feat is 8-A and performed by a leviathan class Grimm).

This also ignores the explosion of the crates themselves. It doesn’t get close to 8-A or low 7-C and the fireballs feat is high 8-C so these crates being 8-A or low 7-C scaling from a high 8-C explosion is ridiculous.

The canisters shoot fireballs, that is nothing like dynamite but even assuming it is, the crates still should not be a multiplier. The explosions wouldn’t be connected to each other. It’s a bunch of tiny explosions with different yields, they wouldn’t combo together to share the same yield. Ignoring how the yield of these explosions that is actually shown doesn’t match this ridiculous multiplier at all.
 

WeeklyBattles

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The maidens are city level with their powers. In base they are town level. I have no clue where you are getting the leviathan being 10 times stronger. Based off the multiplier posted earlier it’s at most 3 times stronger and likely weaker as its 8-A and it says the lancer can be low 7-C.
Yes, in base, without thir maiden powers theyre 7-C, just like every other character in Volume 8.
The Grimm dragon would definitely still be stronger, but by a somewhat small amount, yeah 25 times may seem big, but the next best feats are vastly lower and preformed by a Grimm of comparable class (the next best feat is 8-A and performed by a leviathan clad Grimm).
The Leviathan is actually supposed to be Low 7-C scaling to the Atlesian Colossus that oneshots the Queen Lancer
The canisters shoot fireballs
They dont shoot fireballs though, thyre gunpowder that maks explosions
The explosions wouldn’t be connected to each other. It’s a bunch of tiny explosions with different yields, they wouldn’t combo together to share the same yield.
What do you think a bundle of dynamite is? Sriously i woul like to know how you think dynamite works. Or grenades, or literally any explosive irl. Do you think TNT naturally occurs in multi-ton blocks? Irl you can duct tape 10 sticks of dynamite togethr and get an explosion 10x as strong. Thats what is happening here
 
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The mech doesnt have that lifting strength, thats just the force of its punch
Well, now that's a conundrum.

Your claim is, essentially, any feat for striking strength can be used to find the Lifting Strength of anyone withstanding said striking strength.

That sounds like something that needs a CRT. Cause I can imagine quite a few upgrades from that. Forget RWBY, this is a wiki wide revision if true.

Basically anyone that is 9-A through a proper feat should have Class M lifting strength which.. changes things.
 

WeeklyBattles

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Well, now that's a conundrum.

Your claim is, essentially, any feat for striking strength can be used to find the Lifting Strength of anyone withstanding said striking strength.
If they have a striking strength feat that yields a set force as opposed to just joules then yes, it very well can
That sounds like something that needs a CRT. Cause I can imagine quite a few upgrades from that.

Basically anyone that is 9-A should have Class M lifting strength which.. changes things.
Th problem is striking strength and AP are kinda masurd differently, AP is in Joules, Striking Strength is in newtons, thy'd need force calcs for an upgrade to be done
 
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“scaling to the Atlesian Colossus that oneshots the Queen Lancer”

See it comes from scaling to the Queen Lancer. In terms of feats though by this calc the Queen Lancer is superior.

Good to see you once again are glossing over the explosion not getting results anywhere close to what the multiplier is claiming.

If you throw two grenades at someone they don’t tank the yield of both grenades, they tank two separate grenades. These canisters aren’t all fused together with all the explosives being one massive payload, they are a bunch of individual canisters that are somewhat close to each other.

Duct taping 10 tnt stick together wouldn’t combine their payload, it just has the payload of those individual bombs explode in close proximity of each other. They are different Bombs with different yields and tanking it wouldn’t require you to scale to the overall payload of all the bombs. I know I’m not explaining it well right now, but you already know why that’s the case. I’ll try to say why I think it shouldn’t multiply tomorrow morning. Though again the scaling and feat itself both don’t support this multiplier and multipliers are supposed to be very strict on this site. I’ve seen 2 times multipliers be rejected constantly so to see a 100 times multiplier that isn’t shown or stated in the show at all being accepted just is bewildering to me.
 

WeeklyBattles

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“scaling to the Atlesian Colossus that oneshots the Queen Lancer”

See it comes from scaling to the Queen Lancer. In terms of feats though by this calc the Queen Lancer is superior.
The Colossus has a Low 7-C feat of its own that is higher than that of the Queen Lancer my guy
Duct taping 10 tnt stick together wouldn’t combine their payload, it just has the payload of those individual bombs explode in close proximity of each other. They are different Bombs with different yields and tanking it wouldn’t require you to scale to the overall payload of all the bombs. I know I’m not explaining it well right now, but you already know why that’s the case. I’ll try to say why I think it shouldn’t multiply tomorrow morning. Though again the scaling and feat itself both don’t support this multiplier and multipliers are supposed to be very strict on this site. I’ve seen 2 times multipliers be rejected constantly so to see a 100 times multiplier that isn’t shown or stated in the show at all being accepted just is bewildering to me.
This is...My guy thats literally how dynamyte and TNT works


If you dont think that combining the fuel of multipl explosives into a single bomb rather than throwing multiple explosives at different intervals increases the yield of the bomb then i dont know what to tell you other than make a Q&A thread about it because its what we use here, its literally our AP measuement sytem
 
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If they have a striking strength feat that yields a set force as opposed to just joules then yes, it very well can

Th problem is striking strength and AP are kinda masurd differently, AP is in Joules, Striking Strength is in newtons, thy'd need force calcs for an upgrade to be done
Well, given all you need is area and shear strength, that's incredibly simple to do.

I just got class G 5% Deku off of this. With a lot more to go.
 

WeeklyBattles

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Well, given all you need is area and shear strength, that's incredibly simple to do.

I just got class G 5% Deku off of this. With a lot more to go.
Nice, but remember its from stopping a punch that has that level of force, not throwing a punch with that level of force
 
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I was actually very nervous to talk on this thread again because I don’t like arguing with Weekly. Sorry to say but I think you are very stubborn. I can be stubborn to, so I don’t want that to come off as an insult.

Is it ok for me to make a thread about the multiplier when I get time to think on it. I still find it ridiculous, but I feel like crap right now, and don’t want to get in a large disagreement over it right now.
 
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I was actually very nervous to talk on this thread again because I don’t like arguing with Weekly. Sorry to say but I think you are very stubborn. I can be stubborn to, so I don’t want that to come off as an insult.

Is it ok for me to make a thread about the multiplier when I get time to think on it. I still find it ridiculous, but I feel like crap right now, and don’t want to get in a large disagreement over it right now.
ye, go ahead when you want, no one is stopping you
 

Sir_Ovens

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I'm making a thread about all my gripes. You can comment about that there.

It will include far more than just the multiplier.
 

WeeklyBattles

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I was actually very nervous to talk on this thread again because I don’t like arguing with Weekly. Sorry to say but I think you are very stubborn. I can be stubborn to, so I don’t want that to come off as an insult.

Is it ok for me to make a thread about the multiplier when I get time to think on it. I still find it ridiculous, but I feel like crap right now, and don’t want to get in a large disagreement over it right now.
Dude I just asked you to make a Q&A thread regarding your concern no need to worry about freaking out
I'm making a thread about all my gripes. You can comment about that there.

It will include far more than just the multiplier.
You really cant even wait until the revisions are done before trying to downgrade?
 
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