Some Ideas For Potential Avatar Revisions

[PlozAlcachaz]

Honestly I'm not in favor of either Tier 6 key.

• Covering the world in darkness and reshaping it is something with no given timeframe. Considering Kyoshi's island showing it wouldn't be difficult for a fully realized Avatar to changed the landscape, especially with evil corrupt spirits. Also can someone remind me if the quote is literal rather than just metaphorical?

Covering the world in darkness is something we see on-screen. The part of reshaping is the only part we never get to see as Korra energybends a cosmic version of herself to go fight UnaVaatu and defeats it. The implications are very much treated as an immediate threat, so I don't see why it wouldn't be good supportive reasoning at the least.

• There's no indication that either the Ocean or Moon spirit are High 6-A. They represent concepts but those concepts do not strength or empower them in any fashion. The moon spirit was killed by a knife and it was noted by the Face Stealer they gave up their immortality to live in the mortal realm. Something being conceptually tied to a object does not mean the object itself scales to the full extent of what it represents without evidence. Or in other words unless the fish showcases High 6-A or 5-C feats it does not get a High 6-A or 5-C rating.

The OP literally went over why there was an indication about it. Firstly, Koi-Zilla already has its own Tier 6 feat that was calced. Tier 6 is a pretty realistic territory for it, and the calc alone already gives both keys Tier 6 scaling if it's accepted.

Anyway, DDM pretty much summed it up. They're essentially glass cannons, but they clearly can manipulate their tied to objects. That's evident by the sheer levels of Waterbending the Ocean Spirit added when fused with the Avatar State. Also, the Avatar Extras literally suggest Koi-Zilla as having this level of power too. We already decided to not pursue the 5-C end, we're just going with High 6-A.

Light Manipulation is fine, though they can't do much of anything with it. Besides durability negating lightning and Vaatu/Raava being non-corporeal everything else I'm in agreement with.

The note about Light Manipulation is fine.

I can understand the gripe about Dura Neg, but you should preferably give an explanation.

I don't see why Vaatu and Raava shouldn't be incorporeal. As mentioned before, even during the whole Tokuga ordeal, we have explicit showing that they are immaterial. Tokuga's knives went through an eel spirit without interacting with it, and the spirit later phased through Tokuga as well. Vaatu and Raava are also spirits. This would just be part of their physiology.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Covering the world in darkness is something we see on-screen.

Do you have an image/video/gif of it?

Koi-Zilla already has its own Tier 6 feat that was calced. Tier 6 is a pretty realistic territory for it, and the calc alone already gives both keys Tier 6 scaling if it's accepted.

The linked calc, which was never accepted by the way, got to 49,396 to 1,078,839.53 times below baseline High 6-A. Let alone the high end High 6-A/5-C you're gunning for. This isn't justification for anything more than 6-C.

They're essentially glass cannons, but they clearly can manipulate their tied to objects. That's evident by the sheer levels of Waterbending the Ocean Spirit added when fused with the Avatar State. Also, the Avatar Extras literally suggest Koi-Zilla as having this level of power too. We already decided to not pursue the 5-C end, we're just going with High 6-A.

As detailed above, this isn't evidence for a tier at the bare minimum 50,000 times the result of the calc. Let alone something towards the upper end where the gap would be nearly 330 million in the power difference

I don't see why Vaatu and Raava shouldn't be incorporeal. As mentioned before, even during the whole Tokuga ordeal, we have explicit showing that they are immaterial. Tokuga's knives went through an eel spirit without interacting with it, and the spirit later phased through Tokuga as well. Vaatu and Raava are also spirits. This would just be part of their physiology.

I may be wrong here, since the second season of Korra is the one I'm the least knowledgable on, but weren't Raava and Vaatu smashing large rocks when they fought and weren't both effected by Fire Bending? Neither scream incorporeal to me. If they do have it, its selective. Unless I'm making a critical mistake here.
.

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

Do you have an image/video/gif of it?

Not specifically. I'll find one, but you could just find the feat in the second to last episode of Season 2 if you have Netflix.

This isn't justification for anything more than 6-C. As detailed above, this isn't evidence for a tier at the bare minimum 50,000 times the result of the calc. Let alone something towards the upper end where the gap would be nearly 330 million in the power difference.

I don't see why this wouldn't indicate above 6-C. It's a feat that's done casually without having to overexert itself. The joule count alone isn't a reason to fully dismiss the point either. I'm pretty having a feat in the same Tier 6 classification you do casually, without much exertion, would prove you're likely higher into it. You didn't even bother to refute that DDM and I went responded to how their ties weren't just conceptual either, so I don't think you've adequately addressed the point.

Also, using the upper gap as a reason against this isn't good practice. High 6-A is a vast tier as the difference between the numerous you pulled even show. This rule of thumb would be horrible to go by as more extreme cases like 4-B would shut this mentality down quickly.

I may be wrong here, since the second season of Korra is the one I'm the least knowledgable on, but weren't Raava and Vaatu smashing large rocks when they fought and weren't both effected by Fire Bending? Neither scream incorporeal to me. If they do have it, its selective. Unless I'm making a critical mistake here.

That's because spirits can choose to specifically materialize themselves physically. Vaatu and Raava smashing rocks and stuff come as a result of that. They'd still have Non-Corporeality, it'd just be noted they can manifest themselves physically as well.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I agree with Qaw on Tier 6.

There's a metric ton of stuff that I need to go over otherwise, just off the top of my head you don't get Mid-Godly off of just regening parts of your soul, you get it if you regen from your physical body and soul from being EE'd. So if your body is a spirit or soul regening small parts of it isn't Mid-Godly.

Otherwise the same logic can be applied to literally any ghost or spirit on the site which is utterly ridiculous. I'm giving that part of the CRT a hard no.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I don't see why this wouldn't indicate above 6-C. It's a feat that's done casually without having to overexert itself.

Because there's seriously massive difference between "Feat is casual" and "Feat is casual so that's evidence of a Tier 50,000 times above said feat".

High 6-A is a vast tier as the difference between the numerous you pulled even show

The first set of numbers I pulled were the calced numbers was for the bare minimum of High 6-A. The 330 million number was for the higher end your post was implying that they sat at. Being at best 50,000 times below the minimum is not good enough supporting evidence for a High 6-A rating.

The most I see of this is a 6-C upgrade for Raava, Vaatu, and an Avatar fully channeling one of them. But not High 6-A for them.

You didn't even bother to refute that DDM and I went responded to how their ties weren't just conceptual either, so I don't think you've adequately addressed the point.

They are conceptual. Both spirits are the physical embodiments of their respective concepts. But that does not indicate they completely scale to the full output of those concepts. Being a moon fish does not mean it has the AP, durability, or power of the moon. It just means its connected to it.

As for non-corporeal they can have it, but I don't think they default into it consistently.

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

I agree with Qaw on Tier 6.

There's a metric ton of stuff that I need to go over otherwise, just off the top of my head you don't get Mid-Godly off of just regening parts of your soul, you get it if you regen from your physical body and soul from being EE'd. So if your body is a spirit or soul regening small parts of it isn't Mid-Godly.

Otherwise the same logic can be applied to literally any ghost or spirit on the site which is utterly ridiculous. I'm giving that part of the CRT a hard no.

That's... not what I said at all.

The idea for Low-Godly is that your spiritual essence is restoring your physical body after it has been destroyed. However, Raava isn't a physical entity. Her innate physiology is spiritual. Destroying her entails destroying her on a spiritual level. I'm arguing Mid-Godly off the fact she came back from the complete destruction of herself spiritually, not just "regenerating from bits". That'd just be a more potent Low-Godly otherwise.

 

[Zezu1995]

covering the world took like 10 seconds max lmao.. you clearly see it

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

Because there's seriously massive difference between "Feat is casual" and "Feat is casual so that's evidence of a Tier 50,000 times above said feat".

Can you tell me a single verse that would ever juxtapose the latter? Because that's not a mentality that exists.

It literally makes no sense to suggest 6-C is their upper limit if the feat is done casually. That would be like saying someone can only handstand for 5 seconds when they are doing it just to show off the basics. You wouldn't take such a showing as evidence of their absolute peak.

The first set of numbers I pulled were the calced numbers was for the bare minimum of High 6-A. The 330 million number was for the higher end your post was implying that they sat at. Being at best 50,000 times below the minimum is not good enough supporting evidence for a High 6-A rating.

We already decided not to go down the 5-C route. That's just redundancy on your behalf to try to exaggerate the problems you see with this thread.

If your only feats are casual, even the ones that fall within the same idea of Tier 6, then I don't see why it's not supporting evidence they are clearly higher. This isn't about the math, it's about logic.

They are conceptual. Both spirits are the physical embodiments of their respective concepts. But that does not indicate they completely scale to the full output of those concepts. Being a moon fish does not mean it has the AP, durability, or power of the moon. It just means its connected to it.

This is literally just repeating your last point. They have shown to have clear dominion over it beyond just ties as well. The Avatar Extras literally describe it as having practical control over the ocean as well. The levels of Waterbending we see from it show it's clearly beyond every other sort of feat in the series Waterbending-wise too. The Northern Water Tribe soldiers stop fighting and start praying once Koi-Zilla emerges. If your interpretation was really correct, the Ocean Spirit shouldn't be doing things to this scale. Occam's Razor would side from there that something like Koi-Zilla would have control over the oceans to the High 6-A level then just randomly assuming it's all meaningless and being so dismissive.

As for non-corporeal they can have it, but I don't think they default into it consistently.

That should just be how they naturally are. They just are physical in most instances because that's how they interact with their surroundings most effectively.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Agreeing with Ploz, especially on the tier 6 part. The way I see it, Koi-Zilla is pretty much the "Kyogre" of the avatarverse, in which it controls the worlds oceans. And considering its own partner is a celestial object that also does the same thing, im not seeing at all why it wouldn't be literal.

To give more support for Raava and Vaatu being at that level of power, outside of the Tui and La tier 6 stuff, Vaatu is outright treated as an immediate threat to the verse to the point where he could've destroyed it entirely. Said by Raava herself.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I'm arguing Mid-Godly off the fact she came back from the complete destruction of herself spiritually, not just "regenerating from bits". That'd just be a more potent Low-Godly otherwise.

Gonna ask for a cite on Raava being EE'd instead of just "destroyed beyond being visually identifiable", especially since this is not sourced on the profile pages. Mid-Godly requires coming back from existence erasure of the soul and mind.

Additionally, for spiritual characters, if they cannot regenerate their mind as well as their soul it isn't counted for Mid-Godly. So a cite on her mind being EE'd is also necessary. Please refer to the Regeneration page:

"The ability to regenerate even after the complete destruction of the body and soul/mind."

Overall, I once again firmly reject the application of Mid-Godly here, and think that Low-Godly is insufficiently proven or described on the profiles currently. The standards are extremely clear and I shouldn't have to explain them multiple times.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Anything lower than Low-Godly is a definite no from me.

IDK about Mid-Godly, letting Ploz argue that, but Raava and Vaatu's whole thing is about them regenerating within each other when the other is destroyed. Vaatu dying means he regrows as darkness within Raava, and Raava dying means she regrows as light within Vaatu. That shouldnt be anything less than Low-Godly.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Anything lower than Low-Godly is a definite no from me.

them regenerating within each other when the other is destroyed. Vaatu dying means he regrows as darkness within Raava, and Raava dying means she regrows as light within Vaatu.

Great, can you source that, so it can be added to the relevant pages, and actually explained on the pages.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Happy now?

The video screen is very small due to youtube copyright but the explanation is there between vids.

"He cannot destroy light anymore than I can destroy darkness. One cannot exist without the other. Even if I defeat Vaatu in this encounter, Darkness will grow inside me until he emerges again. The same will hold true if Vaatu defeats me." ~Raava.

 

[Qawsedf234]

It literally makes no sense to suggest 6-C is their upper limit if the feat is done casually.

That's why we have a "At least" prefix and a "Likely higher" statistic suffix. To get a tier you need a feat, calc, or hard enough evidence for that rating. I'm not seeing any of that for High 6-A.

If your interpretation was really correct, the Ocean Spirit shouldn't be doing things to this scale

It doesn't though. It performs a feat far lower than the rating your suggesting and only does it after bonding with the Avatar.

Occam's Razor would side from there that something like Koi-Zilla would have control over the oceans to the High 6-A level

Occam's Razor shows that the fish never demonstrated planetary ocean control so it doesn't have planetary ocean control. So it's not High 6-A.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

considering its own partner is a celestial object that also does the same thing, im not seeing at all why it wouldn't be literal.

Refer back to this^. The moon in Avatar is most definitely a planetary waterbender by doing the same exact thing our own moon does, so why on earth would the ocean spirit not be able to do the same thing specifically as the spirit for the oceans?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Because that's not a lot of energy. The total world wide tidal energy is 3,000 Gigawatts

The total energy contained in tides worldwide is 3,000 gigawatts (GW; billion watts)
https://www.britannica.com/science/tidal-power

Even with steam-tidal combined power generation you only get this

Estimates of tidal stream power—which uses ocean currents to drive underwater blades in a manner similar to wind power generation—in shallow water is capable of generating some 3,800 terawatt-hours per year.

For reference 3,800 Terawatt-Hours is 1.368e+19 joules or 3.269 Gigatons of TNT. If anything this only backs up that they're 6-C rather than High 6-A.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Thats only if you make the calced feat the priority over Tui's feat of controlling the oceans in lore.

Also, this mayve already been said, but that 6-C feat would still be extremely casual. As in, the moon spirit would be doing that by literally doing nothing.

 

[Qawsedf234]

That's the moon spirit's celestial object exerting a constant force over the planet. Its not it doing nothing. Plus its lower than the calced feat for the Ocean Spirit by a margin of 1.257 to 27.46x. So considering that I'm not for a High 6-A rating for anyone. Tidal energy is to low and its consistent with what an extremely angry Ocean Spirt did to a Fire Nation navy. I for a 6-C key, but not for a High 6-A since there's no evidence for it.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I dont see how its not doing nothing though. Its not as if the moon is actively exerting said constant force, it's doing that just by being there. Same as what our moon does.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah, and the Moon Spirit has shown zero evidence of doing anything to the moon in terms of controlling how it moves. So total Tidal Power is all you're going to get from it.

Thats only if you make the calced feat the priority over Tui's feat of controlling the oceans in lore.

Forgot to respond to this. This here also isn't High 6-A. The ocean's total energy is 5,000 Gigawatts. But even if you account for everything its still not that much

• Tidal Energy = 300 TWh = 258 Megatons of TNT (7-A)
• Marine Current Power = 800 TWh = 688 Megatons of TNT (7-A)
• Osmotic Power = 2,000 TWh = 1.72 Gigatons of TNT (High 7-A)
• Ocean Thermal Energy = 10,000 TWh = 8.6 Gigatons of TNT (6-C)
• Wave Energy = 8,000 to 80,000 TWh = 6.88 to 68.83 Gigatons of TNT (6-C to 6-C)
• Total Energy = 21,100 to 93,100 TWh = 18.15 to 80.1 Gigatons of TNT (6-C to 6-C)

So even if you give the Ocean Spirit the total theoretical energy potential of the entire ocean, he would still only be 6-C and not High 6-A. The ocean just isn't that powerful energy wise compared to massive earthquakes or meteor strikes.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yeah, and the Moon Spirit has shown zero evidence of doing anything to the moon in terms of controlling how it moves.

My response didn’t say anything about this. I agree with the moon not doing that if anything.

So total Tidal Power is all you're going to get from it.

This was what my response was about. What I was disagreeing with is it not being casual.

Forgot to respond to this. This here also isn't High 6-A. The ocean's total energy is 5,000 Gigawatts. But even if you account for everything its still not that much

• Tidal Energy = 300 TWh = 258 Megatons of TNT (7-A)
• Marine Current Power = 800 TWh = 688 Megatons of TNT (7-A)
• Osmotic Power = 2,000 TWh = 1.72 Gigatons of TNT (High 7-A)
• Ocean Thermal Energy = 10,000 TWh = 8.6 Gigatons of TNT (6-C)
• Wave Energy = 8,000 to 80,000 TWh = 6.88 to 68.83 Gigatons of TNT (6-C to 6-C)
• Total Energy = 21,100 to 93,100 TWh = 18.15 to 80.1 Gigatons of TNT (6-C to 6-C)

So even if you give the Ocean Spirit the total theoretical energy potential of the entire ocean, he would still only be 6-C and not High 6-A. The ocean just isn't that powerful energy wise compared to massive earthquakes or meteor strikes.

Okay so I’m assuming your fine with downgrading any “controls/creates the entire worlds oceans” type feats across the site? Because this isn’t the first nor is it the last time this type of feat has been brought up and thought of as High 6-A.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Okay so I’m assuming your fine with downgrading any “controls/creates the entire worlds oceans” type feats across the site

Oh 100%. If it's not High 6-A it's not High 6-A.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Okie. A CRT for that should be made then when site-wise revisions are allowed.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Also, people have yet to address this:

To give more support for Raava and Vaatu being at that level of power, outside of the Tui and La tier 6 stuff, Vaatu is outright treated as an immediate threat to the verse to the point where he could've destroyed it entirely. Said by Raava herself.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah I'm okay with them scaling

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

That response wasnt to just justify scaling, but support Raava and Vaatu being above 6-C without using the Moon and Ocean Spirits tiers.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

"He cannot destroy light anymore than I can destroy darkness. One cannot exist without the other. Even if I defeat Vaatu in this encounter, Darkness will grow inside me until he emerges again. The same will hold true if Vaatu defeats me." ~Raava.

I'd prefer a higher quality video but I can just paste the statement in pastebin and link that on profiles.

That said it'd be better to classify that as "Combat Applicable Regen Rating, Low Godly Overtime" since from what Raava states it takes 10,000 years for that process to happen without external intervention.

I'm also unsure about labelling that as regen and not just Type 8 Immortality, since Raava can't accomplish this without Vaatu and vice versa.

---

Otherwise I agree with Qaw, still.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Honestly the whole “It takes 10,000 years for them to revive” thing seems to be headcanon and is never actually made to be the case in the series. It doesn’t make sense either.

Reason being that because Harmonic Convergence is supposed to occur once every 10,000 years as well. And every Harmonic Convergence, one of them is defeated to determine the fate of the world. Which means that, by this headcanon, by the time Raava or Vaatu would re-emerge, they would be immediately going back to fighting each other during the Harmonic Convergence that would come at the time of their re-emergence.

But the Wan backstory episodes conflict with that. Before Wan came, Raava had already won against Vaatu during the previous Harmonic Convergence. But when Wan appears before them , a whole year before the next Harmonic Convergence makes him the first Avatar, Vaatu is shown to be completely revived and just pinned down by Raava.

How and why would Vaatu be caught in a struggle against Raava if both of them needed 10,000 years total to regen?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

@ProfessorKukui4Life

Fair.

How long does that process even take, then?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Not sure. It should probably be overtime, its just that the timeframe is unquantifiable.

The only time we see any real timeframe is when Raava is destroyed. When Giant Spirit Korra went to fight UnaVaatu, she tried searching for Raava's presence within Vaatu during their fight. She wasn't able to find a trace of Raava within him, and Raava only appeared within Vaatu when Jinora used her Spirit-Ex Machina powers to reveal Raava so Korra could pull her out.

So it comes down to 2 things. Either Raava immediately regen'd within Vaatu and couldnt be found by Korra until Jinora helped her out, or the revival time is just unquantifiable and got shortened by Jinora's spirit powers.

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

Sorry for a delayed response. I have been having to juggle a lot between my job and school work recently.

Gonna ask for a cite on Raava being EE'd instead of just "destroyed beyond being visually identifiable", especially since this is not sourced on the profile pages. Mid-Godly requires coming back from existence erasure of the soul and mind.

I'm not sure what you want me to show you here. The implication is she completely fades after being destroyed by Unalaq. She even comes back in a completely separate location, so it's not like she came back through fragments of herself either. Destroying Raava is innately doing so on a spiritual level already given her physiology. As for the soul and mind part, refer to below.

Additionally, for spiritual characters, if they cannot regenerate their mind as well as their soul it isn't counted for Mid-Godly. So a cite on her mind being EE'd is also necessary. Please refer to the Regeneration page:

"The ability to regenerate even after the complete destruction of the body and soul/mind."

Overall, I once again firmly reject the application of Mid-Godly here, and think that Low-Godly is insufficiently proven or described on the profiles currently. The standards are extremely clear and I shouldn't have to explain them multiple times.

Looking at the text you linked from the page, that doesn't appear to be necessary.

I want to stress that forward slash that the text uses for Mid-Godly. Grammatically, forward slashes are used to indicate "or" typically (and it's the only usage here that fits how the sentence is formatted). Essentially, the way the text would be read is it's either soul or mind. It doesn't require both or else it would say:

"The ability to regenerate even after the complete destruction of the body, soul, and mind."

The fact that it doesn't distinguish it like this means it could just be body and soul. Raava isn't really a physical entity as we went over, so she would be recovering from spiritual destruction too. This would fit the current definition of Mid-Godly. Unless there are plans to make a note about this on the Regeneration page/altering the meaning of Mid-Godly, then it completely fits the definition. You're right, they are very clear. That's why I'm arguing it based on how the page currently has entailed its description.

Also, I won't address the Low-Godly stuff considering Kukui went over that. As I said, all that's going to happen out of this is that Raava gets a very potent Low-Godly at the worst from this, or she will just get flat out Mid-Godly too (I guess Vaatu would as well).

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

That's why we have a "At least" prefix and a "Likely higher" statistic suffix. To get a tier you need a feat, calc, or hard enough evidence for that rating. I'm not seeing any of that for High 6-A.

The point I'm making though is that 6-C clearly isn't their upper peak, and you know this from what you just listed. I'm not saying doing a 6-C feat casually means you are automatically High 6-A. All I was saying was that it shows that even the lower feats weren't representative of its fullest capacity, which is why it would be a supporting point.

It doesn't though. It performs a feat far lower than the rating your suggesting and only does it after bonding with the Avatar.

Qaw, I'm not talking about the math, for the third time in a row. I'm saying it's clearly not just a connection thing. They have more enhanced control over Waterbending than literally anybody else in the series. The moon itself is even attributed as being the first Waterbender in the series as it affects the tides in canon. La is also giving a fair power up for that feat to even happen.

Occam's Razor shows that the fish never demonstrated planetary ocean control so it doesn't have planetary ocean control. So it's not High 6-A.

That's not how Occam's Razor would work in this situation. There's a reason it's all based on statements rather than feats. What you're asserting ignores the statements entirely when statements can be the crux of your rating.

Also, if controlling the ocean stuff is being downgraded to only 6-C site-wide, then we shouldn't really continue this. That'd just mean that it makes the 6-C rating backed up.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

@PlozAlcachaz

Did you see my response here yet?

To give more support for Raava and Vaatu being at that level of power, outside of the Tui and La tier 6 stuff, Vaatu is outright treated as an immediate threat to the verse to the point where he could've destroyed it entirely. Said by Raava herself.

Even without Tui and La’s feats, Vaatu being referred to potentially destroying the entire world itself should still suggest he and Raava are above 6-C

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

Yes, I saw. I already agree with it but idk where we would put them for that. I believe it should be High 6-A, but I'm pretty sure they don't agree with that.

 

[Qawsedf234]

At least 6-C, likely higher with High 6-A environmental destruction might work.

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

At least 6-C, likely higher with High 6-A environmental destruction might work.

This is fine by me if the ocean thing goes through. You should post a thread about this soon so that we can see what others outside of this thread think about it.

Also, as for how the scaling will be affected by this:
- Koi-Zilla just gets the "At least 6-C, likely higher" note
- Unalaq, Raava, Vaatu, and Korra will all get the 6-C rating with High 6-A ED

The Yangchen High 7-A feat needs more evaluation for it too. That would upgrade non-fully powered Raava AS Avatars to High 7-A if accepted, of course.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yes, I saw. I already agree with it but idk where we would put them for that. I believe it should be High 6-A, but I'm pretty sure they don't agree with that.

Just so the record reflects, I am good with High 6-A ED too. But the context seems to suggest it wouldve been done rather quickly. Or rather it couldve been.

Raava specifically makes notions about Vaatu being capable of bringing annihilation to both the human and spirit realms, to the point where she says the world may even cease to exist. And in the backstory episodes, she moves as fast as she humanly can to stop Vaatu again before anything major happens.

And given the whole context about Vaatu covering the planet in 10,000 years of darkness, it's clear that its speaking about Vaatu's destruction being done on a planetary+ scale (the "+" would be coming from the spirit world also being factored in).

 

[Zezu1995]

i dont even see why theres much debate, the moon controls/affects all the water on the planet, thats literally text book. Theres not much to talk about there, or am i missing something?

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

I agree with ploz

Also Dragoo doesn't like the Yangchen calc and I can't be bothered to argue it on this wiki, so.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I'm not sure what you want me to show you here. The implication is she completely fades after being destroyed by Unalaq. She even comes back in a completely separate location, so it's not like she came back through fragments of herself either. Destroying Raava is innately doing so on a spiritual level already given her physiology

I mean, if you can't show or prove to me she was fully erased (as in, absolutely nothing remained of her) on a spiritual level then it isn't Mid-Godly regen, pretty simple as that. We have spirits who have High Regen based on regenerating from being reduced to microscopic specs and popping up in a completely different location after the fact.

I want to stress that forward slash that the text uses for Mid-Godly. Grammatically, forward slashes are used to indicate "or" typically (and it's the only usage here that fits how the sentence is formatted). Essentially, the way the text would be read is it's either soul or mind. It doesn't require both or else it would say:

I don't particularly care about the grammar argument, since forward slashes are also used to represent "and". Our page having a grammatical flub is secondary to what the intended meaning of the page is and expecting our explanations to follow formal grammar to the T is pedantic/nitpicky.

That said. Decided to dredge up discussions on Mid-Godly to see what the precedent actually was on the matter.

Ant changed the page from using "and" to using a slash after SeraEX commented that it represented "or" on this thread. Interestingly enough basically no one other than Sera and Ant had discussion on the matter, even the OP most of the staff agreed to that said "and", and this interaction between Ant/Sera seemed to have gone largely ignored by or staff members. I'll make a thread about it once site-wide revisions are allowed. Until then I'll back off on that point.

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Granted, none of this really matters since Ravaa's soul isn't entirely being EE'd as part of it always exists in Vaatu, so it wouldn't be Mid-Godly regardless. Or Low-Godly now that I think of it that way, since she's regenerating from a piece of herself in Vaatu.

That and it wasn't proven Raava is coming back from being fully erased rather than a small part of herself (although a small part of herself existing in Vaatu kind of kicks the supporting argument in the balls anyways) so I'll just double down on my take here. Raava wouldn't be able to regenerate from full spiritual destruction since "full spiritual destruction" would also be nuking the part of her that exists in Vaatu and vice versa. It's just a bread-and-butter Type 8 immortality case.